Who made God?

[OzSpen]

if someone made the Most High, then who made that someone, and who made that one before him, and on and on. there has to be a starting point, that starting point is the Most High.

That is only the situation when dealing with created beings or things. That is not the case with the eternal One. Only things that began, like the universe, need a maker. God had no beginning as he is eternal, so there is no need for him to be created.

This is part of the biblical proof: 'Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen' (1 Tim 1:17 NIV).

Oz

 

[Randy]

Randy,

The Father is God. So is Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. Three in one, the Trinity (Matt 28:19).

(image courtesy Christianity 201)

See my article: Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?
I live in a very secular society where people ask specific questions like: 'Who made God?'

That may not be important to you, but it is to me.

Oz

My response is in regard to where did God come from. Not a debate in the trinity. But I am one who can debate anything in the NT with depth even explain the relationship between Father and Son. Usually such debates in such matters are endless threads.

Randy

 

[OzSpen]

My response is in regard to where did God come from. Not a debate in the trinity. But I am one who can debate anything in the NT with depth even explain the relationship between Father and Son. Usually such debates in such matters are endless threads.

Randy

Randy,

I'm sorry that I misinterpreted what you were saying. In #114 you stated: 'But what I do know is that there was no God formed before the Father nor will there be a God formed after Him'.

I was defending the Father as God, along with Jesus as God and the Holy Spirit as God. Do you accept that the Father is God?

Oz

 

[Randy]

Randy,

I'm sorry that I misinterpreted what you were saying. In #114 you stated: 'But what I do know is that there was no God formed before the Father nor will there be a God formed after Him'.

I was defending the Father as God, along with Jesus as God and the Holy Spirit as God. Do you accept that the Father is God?

Oz

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* (universal) church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[OzSpen]

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit
and born of the virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven
and is seated at the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* (universal) church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Randy,

I also believe in the contents of the Apostles' Creed, but I believe much more than that. What I believe is contained in Scripture.

Oz

 

[Randy]

Randy,

I also believe in the contents of the Apostles' Creed, but I believe much more than that. What I believe is contained in Scripture.

Oz

What is in the "Apostles" creed is sufficient for salvation. The disciples worshipped Jesus as the "Son of God" and proclaimed God had raised the man Jesus form the dead. And yes I believe Jesus was before the world began. I believe all that is written of the Son. As in all the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell IN Him. (from another will-I would state that fullness and will is the One Jesus calls His God who is that fullness) The Father has glorified is Son above all others and made Jesus the mediator between God and man. As is written no one gets to the Father except by the Son and no one enters the kingdom of God except by the Son. Some now state Jesus is not the way to God He is God. Thats not what was taught. Jesus is the way to the "Father". God is reconciling the world to Himself through His Son. God declared Jesus was His Son. Jesus states He is the Son. Jesus is ALL that the Father is. Called God in that context. Again the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him making Jesus the Son the exact image of the wisdom and power of God.

The Father would state "I am what I am"
Jesus would state "I am what I am by the grace of God"

The Father would state "I will do all that I am pleased to do"
Jesus would state "I remain in the Fathers love because I always do what pleases Him"



Randy

 

[Free]

What is in the "Apostles" creed is sufficient for salvation.

It assumes that the Jesus one believes in is the Jesus revealed in Scripture.

 

[OzSpen]

What is in the "Apostles" creed is sufficient for salvation. The disciples worshipped Jesus as the "Son of God" and proclaimed God had raised the man Jesus form the dead. And yes I believe Jesus was before the world began. I believe all that is written of the Son. As in all the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell IN Him. (from another will-I would state that fullness and will is the One Jesus calls His God who is that fullness) The Father has glorified is Son above all others and made Jesus the mediator between God and man. As is written no one gets to the Father except by the Son and no one enters the kingdom of God except by the Son. Some now state Jesus is not the way to God He is God. Thats not what was taught. Jesus is the way to the "Father". God is reconciling the world to Himself through His Son. God declared Jesus was His Son. Jesus states He is the Son. Jesus is ALL that the Father is. Called God in that context. Again the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him making Jesus the Son the exact image of the wisdom and power of God.

The Father would state "I am what I am"
Jesus would state "I am what I am by the grace of God"

The Father would state "I will do all that I am pleased to do"
Jesus would state "I remain in the Fathers love because I always do what pleases Him"

Randy

Randy,

I agree that the Apostles' Creed contains content that will bring people to salvation.

What does it mean to say that Jesus is 'the Son of God'? I have 2 sons. What is the relationship between Jesus 'the Son' and my progeny, sons?

Perhaps that's a topic for another thread.

Oz

 

[Randy]

Randy,

I agree that the Apostles' Creed contains content that will bring people to salvation.

What does it mean to say that Jesus is 'the Son of God'? I have 2 sons. What is the relationship between Jesus 'the Son' and my progeny, sons?

Perhaps that's a topic for another thread.

Oz

We been through this before my stance will never change.
Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is. (all the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in Him)
No, He has always been the Son. (firstborn-at some point inn history before the world began)
The Son that was (His Spirit) was in the tent of the body God prepared for Him. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

.
If you conquer, I will make you a pillar in the temple of my God; you will never go out of it. I will write on you the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem that comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.

 

[Free]

We been through this before my stance will never change.
Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is. (all the fullness of the Godhead was pleased to dwell in Him)
No, He has always been the Son. (firstborn-at some point inn history before the world began)

It really is too bad that you will never change your mind since what you believe is contradictory and not what the Bible teaches. As I have stated many times, Jesus cannot be both God and not God; that violates the law of non-contradiction. That makes it an irrational belief.

Then there is the contradiction in your reasoning. If it is the case that Jesus is all the Father is, then it necessarily follows that he has always existed. If Jesus was born sometime before the world began, then he cannot be all that the Father is.

And then there is the issue of "firstborn." It has several meanings and when it speaks of Jesus, such as Col. 1:15, it doesn't mean that he was literally born but rather it means that he is preeminent over all of creation. Firstborn is used this way in the OT regarding Israel, so we know it has that meaning.

 

[Randy]

It really is too bad that you will never change your mind since what you believe is contradictory and not what the Bible teaches. As I have stated many times, Jesus cannot be both God and not God; that violates the law of non-contradiction. That makes it an irrational belief.

Then there is the contradiction in your reasoning. If it is the case that Jesus is all the Father is, then it necessarily follows that he has always existed. If Jesus was born sometime before the world began, then he cannot be all that the Father is.

And then there is the issue of "firstborn." It has several meanings and when it speaks of Jesus, such as Col. 1:15, it doesn't mean that he was literally born but rather it means that he is preeminent over all of creation. Firstborn is used this way in the OT regarding Israel, so we know it has that meaning.

I disagree as I read the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. All the power and wisdom of God -from another. The Father is that fullness.

 

[Free]

I disagree as I read the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. All the power and wisdom of God -from another. The Father is that fullness.

You might disagree but your position is very self-contradictory and goes against Scripture. Regarding "fullness," it actually isn't said what that fullness is, so to say that "the Father is that fullness" is to read something into that text. What is meant there is the "sum-total of the divine powers and attributes" (M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament); it is the summation, the climax, of all that was said immediately prior in Col. 1:15-18, including the Son as Creator, he preexisted for eternity, and is preeminent. This is another expression of the deity of Jesus.

 

[Randy]

You might disagree but your position is very self-contradictory and goes against Scripture. Regarding "fullness," it actually isn't said what that fullness is, so to say that "the Father is that fullness" is to read something into that text. What is meant there is the "sum-total of the divine powers and attributes" (M. R. Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament); it is the summation, the climax, of all that was said immediately prior in Col. 1:15-18, including the Son as Creator, he preexisted for eternity, and is preeminent. This is another expression of the deity of Jesus.

God created "through" Jesus. The fullness was pleased to dwell in Jesus. I do read that as the Spirit without limit or the fullness of the Godhead. However I do note as well Jesus is not that fullness in Himself. Self evident its from the One Jesus calls His God. Also Jesus is first in everything not just the resurrection. He is Gods firstborn. A beginning at some point in history before the world began but no end.

The Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit. He is God Almighty. The fullness. And while Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a separate person from Himself the Father does not.

Jesus has His own spirit. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

There is only One God. The Father per Jesus is the One true God and His God and our God.

 

[Papa Zoom]

God created "through" Jesus. The fullness was pleased to dwell in Jesus. I do read that as the Spirit without limit or the fullness of the Godhead. However I do note as well Jesus is not that fullness in Himself. Self evident its from the One Jesus calls His God. Also Jesus is first in everything not just the resurrection. He is Gods firstborn. A beginning at some point in history before the world began but no end.

The Holy Spirit is the Fathers Spirit. He is God Almighty. The fullness. And while Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit as a separate person from Himself the Father does not.

Jesus has His own spirit. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"

There is only One God. The Father per Jesus is the One true God and His God and our God.

I'm lost. Are you denying the Trinity?

 

[OzSpen]

I disagree as I read the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him. All the power and wisdom of God -from another. The Father is that fullness.

Randy,

With that kind of reasoning, there was no need for the Father.

Col 2:9 (NIV) provides the meaning: 'For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily'. Here the deity of Jesus is confirmed. Jesus, the Son, is completely equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. In theological terms it is referring to Christ's consubstantiality, not his similarity, with the Father.

Consubstantial means being of the same substance or essence as the three persons of the Trinity.

The full deity abides in Christ.

Oz

 

[Randy]

Randy,

With that kind of reasoning, there was no need for the Father.

Col 2:9 (NIV) provides the meaning: 'For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily'. Here the deity of Jesus is confirmed. Jesus, the Son, is completely equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. In theological terms it is referring to Christ's consubstantiality, not his similarity, with the Father.

Consubstantial means being of the same substance or essence as the three persons of the Trinity.

The full deity abides in Christ.

Oz

"pleased to dwell"
The Father has glorified His Son

 

[Randy]

Randy,

With that kind of reasoning, there was no need for the Father.

Col 2:9 (NIV) provides the meaning: 'For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily'. Here the deity of Jesus is confirmed. Jesus, the Son, is completely equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. In theological terms it is referring to Christ's consubstantiality, not his similarity, with the Father.

Consubstantial means being of the same substance or essence as the three persons of the Trinity.

The full deity abides in Christ.

Oz

God is Spirit - The Father is IN the Son. His Son. His Christ. His anointed.

 

[Randy]

I'm lost. Are you denying the Trinity?

I state Jesus has a beginning but no end. I really didn't want to get into another endless thread about the relationship between Father and Son. Furthermore I don't agree the Holy Spirit is a separate distinct person from the "Father"

 

[Papa Zoom]

I state Jesus has a beginning but no end. I really didn't want to get into another endless thread about the relationship between Father and Son. Furthermore I don't agree the Holy Spirit is a separate distinct person from the "Father"

Jesus the man came into being. But God the Son did not. I wasn't looking for an endless discussion, just a clarification. From your statement above I gather that you don't agree with the orthodox view of the Trinitarian God. Three distinct persons, one God.

 

[OzSpen]

"pleased to dwell"
The Father has glorified His Son

That's not responding to what I wrote.