Who raised Christ from the dead?

[Rick W]

I believe that the words offerd above can have a 'deeper meaning' than taking them completely literal. How about this:

I have chosen, by my obedience, to lay down my life for YOU. And I KNOW that through such obedience to the will of the Father, I will be 'raised again'. And I KNOW that these sayings are TRUTH for I have received this directly from The Father.

You left out "I will raise it up" and " I have power to take it again".

Christ really did say those words. One can't just conveniently omit them for the sake of trying to maintain a particular belief.

 

[Imagican]

Rick,

You fail to recognize that I have already addressed these 'words' of Christ.

What you have failed to recognize that they may WELL HAVE a different meaning than what you have come to believe. That they are more sybolic than literal. That they deal with Christ's obedience and such more so than HIS OWN POWER.

For we have the words also that ALL that Christ possessed was GIVEN HIM of the Father.

Question: If Christ had fallen to temptation, do you believe that the power that God had placed within Him would have continued to be HIS? In other words, do you believe that God had the POWER to 'take back' what was GIVEN to Christ?

So, in this respect, what Christ may well have been offering is that THROUGH His obedience, the promise that God had made Him would BE fulfilled. That THROUGH the thwarthing of temptation, (an act of Christ Himself), God had promised to raise Him again. But what would have happened IF Christ had surcome to temptation? Would HE have been ABLE to 'raise Himself'?

No, I believe that these words that we debate meant that THROUGH obedience lay the power to 'raise Himself'. And that the actual 'raising' was done by God Himself. For HOW could a dead man 'raise Himself'. That would mean that He wasn't REALLY dead.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

Rick,

You fail to recognize that I have already addressed these 'words' of Christ.

What you have failed to recognize that they may WELL HAVE a different meaning than what you have come to believe.

Or not...

That they are more sybolic than literal. That they deal with Christ's obedience and such more so than HIS OWN POWER.

LOL! You are in denial of simple words. Where are the conditionals? I don't see any "if..."

For we have the words also that ALL that Christ possessed was GIVEN HIM of the Father.

Of course. The Word is eternally begotten from the Father.

GOD FROM GOD.
LIGHT FROM LIGHT
TRUE GOD FROM TRUE GOD.

Yikes, at least READ the Creed...

He IS the Word of God. Personfied. The perfect Image of the uncaused cause, distinct in only origin. With this understanding, of course all that the Word has is from the Father! It doesn't make Him any less the true essence of God Himself.

Question: If Christ had fallen to temptation, do you believe that the power that God had placed within Him would have continued to be HIS?

No point in speculating, since Christ did not fall.

In other words, do you believe that God had the POWER to 'take back' what was GIVEN to Christ?

Again, you place God in time, as if He did not know what His OWN WORD would do. The Scriptures say that God's Word ALWAYS does what it intends to do, fulfilling its purpose... As usual, you do not take into account what the Scriptures say when you take a verse and claim it means something else than what it clearly says. "I will raise..."

No, I believe that these words that we debate meant that THROUGH obedience lay the power to 'raise Himself'. And that the actual 'raising' was done by God Himself. For HOW could a dead man 'raise Himself'. That would mean that He wasn't REALLY dead.

More sophisms from one in denial of simple words. "I will raise". Where does Jesus make it conditional based upon His future obedience? He doesn't say "IF" anywhere regarding obedience. And all your speculation places God in chronological time. Clearly, you do not understand that God lives in eternity and sees all, both in time and space. He already sees Christ's obedience, there is no :

"Hmm, I wonder what Jesus will do".

"If Jesus doesn't obey Me, the Father, I will take away His power".

"I guess I'll have to wait and see before I allow Jesus to raise Himself..."

Regards

 

[Imagican]

fran,

It is YOU who are in denial of what is offered up in Word.

For WE WERE given the details of Christ's TEMPTATION by Satan. We were also given the details of the temptation in the garden directly before He was betrayed. We need NOT speculate on TEMPTATION, but we certainly MUST on the issue of 'what IF' He had 'fallen TO temptation'. From YOUR perspective, (Jesus WAS God), He could NOT. But from the perspective that we have been offered in The Word, there would have been NO REASON for Satan to TEMPT God. But the Son, on the other hand, he did NOT know if he could influence The Son or NOT.

Question: Why do YOU believe that we were offered the words concerning Christ's temptation if NOT to show that He OVERCAME IT?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[RND]

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.



Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

The Holy Spirit!

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

[Imagican]

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.



Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

The Holy Spirit!

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

There IS your answer: quickened or RAISED in Spirit. For the Body of Christ is NOT 'physical' but "SPIRITUAL".

Christ POINTED to a 'physical temple' built by the hands of men. But what He SPOKE of 'rasing again' was a TRUE TEMPLE that is SPIRITUAL rather than physical. For the temple NOW resides in the HEARTS of those that LOVE Him and obey HIs commandments.

Once again, I believe that we deal here with allagory and NOT literal meaning. For IF it were MEANT to be literal, He would NOT have made the allusion to the PHYSICAL temple that existed at the time.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

John 2:

14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

15And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

16And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

17And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

18Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?

19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21But he spake of the temple of his body.

22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

23Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.

24But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,

25And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

IF Christ 'raised Himself', at what point was He ACTUALLY DEAD? And IF He were DEAD indeed, HOW WOULD HE KNOW IT? And IF He did NOT FULLY DIE, then HOW would HIs death have ANY MEANING?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[RND]

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
John 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
John 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.



Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

The Holy Spirit!

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

There IS your answer: quickened or RAISED in Spirit. For the Body of Christ is NOT 'physical' but "SPIRITUAL".

Christ POINTED to a 'physical temple' built by the hands of men. But what He SPOKE of 'rasing again' was a TRUE TEMPLE that is SPIRITUAL rather than physical. For the temple NOW resides in the HEARTS of those that LOVE Him and obey HIs commandments.

Once again, I believe that we deal here with allagory and NOT literal meaning. For IF it were MEANT to be literal, He would NOT have made the allusion to the PHYSICAL temple that existed at the time.

Blessings,

MEC

I answered the question posed. "Who" raised Christ from the dead?

The "Holy Spirit" raised Christ from the dead.

 

[francisdesales]

For WE WERE given the details of Christ's TEMPTATION by Satan.

Where does it say that Jesus COULD have given in to temptation???? Nowhere.

We were also given the details of the temptation in the garden directly before He was betrayed.

Yet again, where are we given ANY indication that Jesus COULD have done His human will instead of the Father's will? Nowhere. Thus, your "theology" is based upon speculations not derived from the Scriptures.

We need NOT speculate on TEMPTATION, but we certainly MUST on the issue of 'what IF' He had 'fallen TO temptation'. From YOUR perspective, (Jesus WAS God), He could NOT. But from the perspective that we have been offered in The Word, there would have been NO REASON for Satan to TEMPT God.

There are a number of things that appear to have "no reason" in Scriptures, like the death of Jesus as a "requisite" for man's salvation. Perhaps Satan did not recognize Jesus as the Word of God, since it was at the very beginning of Jesus' ministry. Perhaps Satan viewed Jesus as you do, just a prophet of God with no ontological connection. Logically speaking, if Satan knew that the Christ was God Himself, he wouldn't bother to tempt God. However, I can think of several reasons why Satan presents himself as an obstacle to God - AND realizing that God has "already defeated" death... Logically, it is silly for Satan to continue to oppose God in 2009 AD, then. But he still does.

Question: Why do YOU believe that we were offered the words concerning Christ's temptation if NOT to show that He OVERCAME IT?

Certainly that is one reason. Being the New Adam, the pioneer of God's People of the New Covenant, Jesus had proven that man could overcome Satan and his power. But this happened ONLY when God UNITED Himself with man.

Regards

 

[Imagican]

Fran,

WHY do you reacon we have the evidence of Christ PRAYING to the Father for STRENGTH to do HIS will rather than HIS OWN? When the Lord's Prayer is offered, do you NOT realize that this WAS a 'prayer BY Christ TO HIs Father'?

OUR FATHER, get it? OUR, as in Christ and ME.

If Christ was NOT subject TO 'the flesh' then His death would have served NOTHING. If He had NOT been subject TO temptation, He could NOT HAVE DEFEATED IT. For one CANNOT overcome that which they are NOT subseptable TO.

Your reasoning is faulty for your belief that Jesus was 'something OTHER THAN' what He IS. You cannot even SEE the wonderous work that He accomplished in the Name of God for you BELIEVE that Jesus IS God. You 'take away' the difficulty and the trial by NOT accepting WHO Christ ACTUALLY IS. You readily admit that Christ WAS the 'second man Adam' but at the same time DENY it for the sake of a 'doctrine'. For what you SAY you accept is negated by your statements over and over.

You would have us believe that Christ COULD NOT HAVE SINNED. If this were the case, then WHAT PURPOSE did His manifestation in the FLESH accomplish? God could have sent prophets to TELL US of His Will. And offered THEM power to perform miracles to 'back up' their claims. NO, He sent HIS SON. The PERFECT example of His Love usward to SHOW us that which we were INTENDED to LEARN. Then to DIE for us so that we wouldn't HAVE to.

Now, the ONLY way in which the 'example' COULD have had pertinence would have BEEN if Christ had the SAME 'free will' that WE DO.

Now, to further illustrate what I speak of; We KNOW that the Satan was ONCE an angel serving God. And we KNOW that he possessed FREE WILL for we KNOW that he rebelled against God and that NOT ONLY Satan, but many other angels as well. So THESE TOO possessed 'free will'.

What kind of God would have a Son that had NO 'free will'. Everything that Christ offered concerning HIS WILL indicated that HE CHOSE to follow the will of His Father. Even in His prayer in the garden we SEE that He stated, "Not MY will, but THINE be done". Does this NOT indicate FREE WILL. That Christ OPENLY stated that HIS will and the Father's may well have BEEN 'different'. Otherwise, explain the significance of STATING, "Not MY will, BUT Thine be done".

So, it doesn't take a whole BUNCH of speculation in order to UNDERSTAND what IS offered.

What 'gets in the way' is this: Jesus IS God 'thing'. For IF we simply accept what has been offered AS IT HAS BEEN OFFERED, we have NO such impedments to understanding.

I have interjected NOTHING but understanding WITHOUT pre-conceived notions that inhibit understanding. I have simply accepted AS a child what has been offered in understanding that is SO SIMPLE even a child could understand it.

The Bible WAS written so that I CAN understand it in Spirit. It was written for those willing and able to have the FAITH of a child. NOTHING so complex that a child could NOT understand. Otherwise, we have been led to falsehood.

Christ TOOK a child upon His knee and plainly pointed out that 'them like THESE' will inherit the Kingdom of God. Now, what ASPECT of a 'child' was He refering to? Innocence? Not likely. Only in the respect that they were INNOCENT in their TRUST, (or lack of it), so that they were ABLE to be FAITHFUL without impedence. They could BELIEVE without hinderance from KNOWLEDGE.

So, do you honestly BELIEVE that the Word would be offered in a way that ONLY certain GIFTED LEADERS would be ABLE to interpret it? That the AVERAGE person who LOVES God CANNOT understand the message? Come now.................?

So, Christ the infalible? Not likely. Christ vulnerable to ALL the SAME things that WE are. Otherwise, His ability to overcome would have had NO significance. For God to 'come in the flesh' would have been to NONE effect.

It took the sending of His OWN Son to accomplish that which WAS God's will. And ONLY through an ADHERANCE TO the will of God, was the Son able to accomplish that which we find our hope and Salvation IN today.

How could Christ BE the example if WE TOO are NOT able, through the strength of our FAITH, to overcome temptation? ALL temptation? Not likely. For the flesh IS weak. But I prove EVERY DAY that I AM capable of overcoming 'temptation'. ALL temptation? Certainly not. But MORE with each passing day.

Christ was the personification of the perfection that was intended for US if we had simply had the PATIENCE to remain obedient. We WERE created in the IMAGE of God. That means that we have the potential to be LIKE God. God Himself? NO WAY. But we have the potential to be LIKE God so far as WHAT His essence IS. It was simply a matter of TIME that we NEVER gave in to. Choosing instead to be OUR OWN GODS. For WE TOO can BE 'children of God'. Not JUST God's children, but CHILDREN OF GOD.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

Fran,

WHY do you reacon we have the evidence of Christ PRAYING to the Father for STRENGTH to do HIS will rather than HIS OWN? When the Lord's Prayer is offered, do you NOT realize that this WAS a 'prayer BY Christ TO HIs Father'?

Jesus is speaking to the Father from His human nature. Don't you think it will require superhuman strength to undergo the tortures of the cross?

OUR FATHER, get it? OUR, as in Christ and ME.

"our"... Is the pronoun universally applied, or is it refering to those who are adopted sons and daughters of God?

If Christ was NOT subject TO 'the flesh' then His death would have served NOTHING.

It was subject to the flesh in that it suffered the punishment due sin - death. He also suffered the human lot, suffering, hunger, anxiety, etc. However, the Scriptures say that He was without sin, showing He was indeed "Good".

If He had NOT been subject TO temptation, He could NOT HAVE DEFEATED IT. For one CANNOT overcome that which they are NOT subseptable TO.

Of course He couldn't have been defeated. Are you suggesting a power that can defeat God exists?

Your reasoning is faulty for your belief that Jesus was 'something OTHER THAN' what He IS.

You haven't shown that yet.

You cannot even SEE the wonderous work that He accomplished in the Name of God for you BELIEVE that Jesus IS God.

??? More rhetoric without any explanation.

You 'take away' the difficulty and the trial by NOT accepting WHO Christ ACTUALLY IS. You readily admit that Christ WAS the 'second man Adam' but at the same time DENY it for the sake of a 'doctrine'. For what you SAY you accept is negated by your statements over and over.

I never denied that Christ was human. I am saying that God knew that Jesus would not/could not fail in His mission, since God's WORD does what God INTENDS for it to do.

For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. Is 55:10-11

God's Word SHALL accomplish the purpose of the Almighty. Thus, while the human will of Jesus was certainly fearful of His impending death, as any human would be, the Divine Word would accomplish the intent of God. Thus, to say that Jesus could fail because Satan tempted Jesus is using false logic.

You would have us believe that Christ COULD NOT HAVE SINNED. If this were the case, then WHAT PURPOSE did His manifestation in the FLESH accomplish?

!!! God saves man by becoming man, so that man could be divinized. How would a mere mortal save us?

God could have sent prophets to TELL US of His Will. And offered THEM power to perform miracles to 'back up' their claims. NO, He sent HIS SON. The PERFECT example of His Love usward to SHOW us that which we were INTENDED to LEARN. Then to DIE for us so that we wouldn't HAVE to.

In what way was He His Son?

Now, the ONLY way in which the 'example' COULD have had pertinence would have BEEN if Christ had the SAME 'free will' that WE DO.

Christ had two wills. One human and one divine.

What kind of God would have a Son that had NO 'free will'.

Of course the Son of God had free will. But it is the same as the Father's because there is only ONE divine will!

We are not a polytheistic religion.

Everything that Christ offered concerning HIS WILL indicated that HE CHOSE to follow the will of His Father. Even in His prayer in the garden we SEE that He stated, "Not MY will, but THINE be done". Does this NOT indicate FREE WILL.

I sense a fundamental misunderstanding of what "freedom" is...

Freedom is doing the Father's Will. Jesus was indeed free.

That Christ OPENLY stated that HIS will and the Father's may well have BEEN 'different'.

He is speaking of his human revulsion of the suffering He would soon undergo - which He was perfectly aware of because of His divine knowledge.

Christ TOOK a child upon His knee and plainly pointed out that 'them like THESE' will inherit the Kingdom of God. Now, what ASPECT of a 'child' was He refering to? Innocence? Not likely. Only in the respect that they were INNOCENT in their TRUST, (or lack of it), so that they were ABLE to be FAITHFUL without impedence. They could BELIEVE without hinderance from KNOWLEDGE.

??? You're kidding. The context doesn't allow such an interpretation. Bracketing the verses are Jesus' condemnation of the proud, not those hindered by knowledge. Interjecting your own "theology" again... Children are humble, not proud. THOSE will inherit the Kingdom, which may be a word to the wise for such as yourself who proudly proclaim they are right and everyone else is wrong...

So, do you honestly BELIEVE that the Word would be offered in a way that ONLY certain GIFTED LEADERS would be ABLE to interpret it? That the AVERAGE person who LOVES God CANNOT understand the message? Come now.................?

Apparently, you can't read, since I have constantly denied that accusation...

So, Christ the infalible?

Yes.

For God to 'come in the flesh' would have been to NONE effect.

According to your ignorant presumptions.

It took the sending of His OWN Son to accomplish that which WAS God's will. And ONLY through an ADHERANCE TO the will of God, was the Son able to accomplish that which we find our hope and Salvation IN today.

Why? Why is Christ's OBEDIENCE the instrument of OUR salvation if He was just another prophet?

Regards

 

[Rick W]

The "Holy Spirit" raised Christ from the dead.

Oh yeah. Forgot the Holy Spirit.
All 3 raised Jesus's body from the dead

 

[LostSoul]

Where does it say that Jesus COULD have given in to temptation???? Nowhere.

Yet again, where are we given ANY indication that Jesus COULD have done His human will instead of the Father's will? Nowhere. Thus, your "theology" is based upon speculations not derived from the Scriptures.

Fracisdesales,

Did Jesus not pray in the Garden to have the cup of which was His to be passed from Him? Only saying that if it was God's will that He would do it? Is it not possible that like any of us...Jesus might have been a little afraid for His own life and contemplated...maybe even have been slightly tempted to run away from what lay before Him?

Matthew 26:39And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. 40And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? 41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. 42He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.



God alone knows...but I would not rule out the possibility.

Not to say in the least that anyone here is right. Nor to say that anyone here is necessarily wrong. Just found the idea of Jesus not being able to have been tempted a rather interesting twist in the conversation. For if He could not have been tempted....then why must we try so hard to live up to His example if avoiding sin was indeed that easy? For was Jesus not made so that God could inspire us....? M

I could be wrong. But it is something perhaps worth thinking about.

My apologies for any offense caused. I meant none.

May God Bless You

Danielle

 

[francisdesales]

Fracisdesales,

Did Jesus not pray in the Garden to have the cup of which was His to be passed from Him? Only saying that if it was God's will that He would do it? Is it not possible that like any of us...Jesus might have been a little afraid for His own life and contemplated...maybe even have been slightly tempted to run away from what lay before Him?

Of course the humanity of Jesus was fearful and worried about what was coming. I have no doubt, since Jesus was human. He experienced pain, anxiety, was tempted by external activities, cried, was hungry, etc. He was like us in all things but sin.

I am saying that Jesus, in the end, COULD NOT "run away" from the Father's Will because Jesus ALSO had the Divine Will within Him. While Jesus' human will was in turmoil, Jesus Divine Will would not have allowed any deviation from the Will of God, since God's Will is always done.

God alone knows...but I would not rule out the possibility.

Not to say in the least that anyone here is right. Nor to say that anyone here is necessarily wrong. Just found the idea of Jesus not being able to have been tempted a rather interesting twist in the conversation.

Oh, no. I didn't say He couldn't be tempted. I am saying that any temptation would never have convinced the Christ to disobey God. There is no point in speculating "what if", but don't you believe that God already KNEW that Jesus would obey Him in the first place? Secondly, do you believe that Jesus WAS God Himself, the Word of God made flesh? How could God disobey Himself? There is only one divine will, so what the Father wills, so does the Son. There is no "disagreement". If there was, we'd have two divine wills, two divine beings. This cannot be.

Regards

 

[Rick W]

MEC,

Three days after Christ died what rose from the grave?
His body, a place of dwelling for His spirit, the Word made flesh.

TEMPLE

–noun
1. an edifice or place dedicated to the service or worship of a deity or deities.
2. (usually initial capital letter) any of the three successive houses of worship in Jerusalem in use by the Jews in Biblical times, the first built by Solomon, the second by Zerubbabel, and the third by Herod.
3. a synagogue, usually a Reform or Conservative one.
4. an edifice erected as a place of public worship; a church, esp. a large or imposing one.
5. any place or object in which God dwells, as the body of a Christian. I Cor. 6:19.
6. (in France) a Protestant church.
7. (in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) a building devoted to administering sacred ordinances, principally that of eternal marriage.
8. a building, usually large or pretentious, devoted to some public use: a temple of music.
9. (initial capital letter) either of two establishments of the medieval Templars, one in London and the other in Paris.
10. (initial capital letter) either of two groups of buildings (Inner Temple and Middle Temple) on the site of the Templars' former establishment in London, occupied by two of the Inns of Court.
11. a building used by the Templars in the U.S.
12. a building used by any of various fraternal orders.

Nowhere is "temple" used to describe a congregation in definition or in scripture.





CHURCH

–noun
1. a building for public Christian worship.
2. public worship of God or a religious service in such a building: to attend church regularly.
3. (sometimes initial capital letter) the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.
4. (sometimes initial capital letter) any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.
5. that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.
6. a body of Christians worshipping in a particular building or constituting one congregation: She is a member of this church.
7. ecclesiastical organization, power, and affairs, as distinguished from the state: separation of church and state; The missionary went wherever the church sent him.
8. the clergy and religious officials of a Christian denomination.
9. the Christian faith: a return of intellectuals to the church.
10. (initial capital letter) the Christian Church before the Reformation.
11. (initial capital letter) the Roman Catholic Church.
12. the clerical profession or calling: After much study and contemplation, he was prepared to enter the church.
13. a place of public worship of a non-Christian religion.
14. any non-Christian religious society, organization, or congregation: the Jewish church.

"Church" does describe a congregation.

Jesus did not say "church". He said "temple".

The Temple Christ spoke of was indeed his body, the temple in which dwelt, again, the Word made flesh, John 1:14.
And our bodies also act as a temple for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.


1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?


The Holy spirit dwells within our body (temple) yes but we are not the temple of heaven nor shall we be as some would want to believe. I know the teaching is out there and that would be a rather arrogant teaching... that collectively we will make up God's heavenly temple. The Holy spirit doesn't need us for a place of residence now or in the future since His place is in heaven but rather the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is given as a gift to those who would believe. Nor does Christ need us as His temple to perform His heavenly duty as High Priest.

We are not His temple. We may become part of the congregation of His Church, which is our faith, our hope, yes.

The Temple Christ spoke of was his body, the temple in which dwelt the Word.
Nowhere in scripture is it taught that we are or ever will become a heavenly temple.

Psa 11:4 The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

Psa 15:1 <A Psalm of David.> LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
Psa 15:2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.


The true tabernacle, that of heaven, served as a pattern for Moses long before Christ rose from the dead.
The prophets such as Ezekiel and Isaiah saw the heavenly temple in visions given by God.

Exo 25:40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

To claim Christ raised another temple is to agree with those that bore false witness against Him, an intentional distortion of His words in the attempt that He may be convicted.

Mark 14:57 And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,
Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

I answered the question posed. "Who" raised Christ from the dead?

The "Holy Spirit" raised Christ from the dead.

RND claims the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead. Shad claims God raised Christ from the dead.

Not only is an explanation needed to keep Christ separate from the Father but now there's need for an explanation to resolve this apparent contradiction to keep God and the Holy Spirit separated.

Trying to keep these 3 separate just seems to get more and more complicated.

 

[RND]

RND claims the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead.

Rick, I don't make that "claim," Peter makes that claim. Paul makes that claim......I just "parrot" the claim.

Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Quickened: Made alive. Raised by what? The Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness. Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him (God; i.e. Holy Spirit) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I guess I can be somewhat blamed for being absolutely "literal" in stating unequivocally that it is the "Holy Spirit" that raised Jesus Christ from the grave. It was God the Father that "raised" Jesus Christ from the dead through the power of the "Holy Spirit." Of course, therein lies the "mystery" of the "Godhead."

 

[Rick W]

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Through the Power of The Word God raised Jesus from the dead.

 

[RND]

John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

[quote="Rick W":28u7rm9u]
Through the Power of The Word God raised Jesus from the dead.

[/quote:28u7rm9u]

Rick, did Jesus "raise" Himself from the grave? Where did "His" power to take back His life come from? What "commandment" did Jesus receive? Who did He receive that "commandment" from?

 

[Rick W]

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The subject of the entire discourse here is His life. The commandment Christ received is that of God's plan of salvation, that Christ must lay down His life, to be sacrificed once and for all for our sins.

Why is it that we can have a body and spirit but not Christ? Blood was required for the sacrifice and a spirit is not flesh and bone.

Did The Word die? Of course not. The Word IS life. The Word IS the resurrection. Christ's body, the flesh and bone, died on the cross, the Word remained and through the Word Christ's body was resurrected as God's plan of salvation had intended.

 

[RND]

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

The subject of the entire discourse here is His life. The commandment Christ received is that of God's plan of salvation, that Christ must lay down His life, to be sacrificed once and for all for our sins.

If Christ "must" lay down His life then He didn't do it "willingly" did He?

Why is it that we can have a body and spirit but not Christ?

Who says that someone that does the work of the Spirit doesn't have Christ?

Blood was required for the sacrifice and a spirit is not flesh and bone.

And?

Did The Word die? Of course not.

But the word "did" die.....It was "raised" again by God the Father, through the Holy Spirit.

The Word IS life.

Indeed. But where does Jesus tells us He got His words?

Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The Father.....

The Word IS the resurrection.

Given to Jesus by the Father.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Through "His" work.

Christ's body, the flesh and bone, died on the cross, the Word remained and through the Word Christ's body was resurrected as God's plan of salvation had intended.

By God the Father through the Holy Spirit.

Rick, I suspect that you didn't try to answer the questions I asked because you couldn't. Care to try again? Did Jesus "raise" Himself from the grave? Where did "His" power to take back His life come from? What "commandment" did Jesus receive? Who did He receive that "commandment" from?