And Solo,
I offer that heaven can have TWO definitions. One, the 'universe', two, the abode of God and the angels. It would seem that one is a 'physical' location, the other; a physical place.
Since we HAVE Christ made above the angels. And MANY other passages that state similar attributes, it becomes apparent that for these statements to BE true WITHOUT contradiction to what YOU offered, IT MUST BE 'something different' than your 'understanding'.
I do NOT deny the scripture that you offered. What I DO is believe that it's MEANING is 'different' than what you offer it to mean.
Perhaps it deals with what I have offered SO MANY times before; the Bible was written FOR man, PERTAINING to man. That would LEAVE much that we are NOT privileged to at the present.
In REFERENCE to man, Christ IS eternal. But perhaps when compared to eternity, His existence IS limited.
The 'truth' CANNOT contradict itself. There is NO possible way that The Word CAN be the 'truth' if there is contradiction. Therefore, what may SEEM to be contradiction MUST be 'misunderstanding'.
What I offer is that; Christ IS the Son. From ALL indication He has ALWAYS 'been' the Son. This places The Father ABOVE and 'before' the Son. If what I am offering here IS TRUE, then what others have accepted as 'teachings' from their 'churches' IS WRONG.
And, if this 'conception' of Christ, as taught by the 'churches', IS wrong, then it impedes MUCH understanding of 'other' topics. There is MUCH 'speculation' in the 'churches' that are NOT definite 'understanding, but more like 'guesses'. Perhaps the REASON for this 'lack of understanding' is based on incorrect 'speculation'. And this speculation simply being passed 'on through the ages'.
Solo,
Do you 'believe' that it's possible that the Catholic Church may have made 'mistakes' in their interpretation of The Word? Do you 'believe' that it's possible that their 'beliefs' could be askew of the 'truth'? Now, how about the Baptists? Is their 'understanding' complete and accurate? Do you realize that the CC has influenced EVERY MAJOR denomination? Therefore, if they GOT ONE CRUCIAL point WRONG, could it NOT have influenced their ENTIRE DOCTRINE?
In other words, if ONE SINGLE CRUCIAL piece of information was 'missed' or 'misinterpreted', lost or OVERLOOKED, how could their 'overall' doctrine BE correct? Like trying to 'build' an engine that one has NEVER seen before. ALL the pieces are present but there is NO instruction as to HOW these pieces FIT together. What are the ODDS against one being ABLE to 'build' this engine CORRECTLY. You know, like EVERY time one works on something it seems as if there are EXTRA pieces 'left over'. And ONE crucial piece is all it takes for this engine to NEVER RUN.
And IF this 'mistake' is made in the VERY beginning, no matter WHAT one does to 'fix' the problem, the ONLY way to do it is to take EVERYTHING BACK apart and START OVER from step ONE.
I believe that we have VERY MUCH information that indicates that this is EXACTLY what was done. From the INCEPTION of the CC, they MISSED crucial pieces of the TRUTH. Can't answer the 'why' of it, but 'perhaps' it was due to NOT STARTING OVER at the VERY beginning. Simply ACCEPTING Christ into their PREVIOUS religions. Maybe it had to do with these being TOO wise for their own good. So wise, in fact, that they were UNABLE to truly 'let go' of what they had learned PREVIOUS and simply starting over with NOTHING other than God and Christ. Can't answer ALL the questions involved here. Don't even NEED to. What IS NEEDED is the understanding that they were 'mistaken', not the REASON FOR CHOOSING the path that they CHOSE.
Anyone that has done even a cursory study of the Protestant faith will QUICKLY realize that they were NOTHING other than 'off-shoots' of the CC. They changed a 'few' things that they disagreed with, but their BASIC understanding was the SAME as they had been taught for Hundreds upon Hundreds of years.
I propose that to ELIMINATE what 'baggage' that was 'carried over', one MUST 'start over'. And this is WHAT was done with EVERY CONVERT that EVER existed PREVIOUS to the introduction of the CC. READ, my friend, READ. The FIRST Christians were NOT taught INTRICATE doctrinal messages BEFORE being 'saved'. These simply heard SIMPLE words of Hope and 'dropped to their knees' inviting Christ INTO their hearts. Convicted BY THE SPIRIT without the NEED for specific 'man-made' doctrine to convince them of the Loving Grace of their God and His Son.
The 'legalism' of man has NEVER saved a 'single soul'. His 'man-made' doctrines can do NOTHING but lead other men in the 'desires' of the flesh. Carnal by nature, men are UNABLE to 'lead' others into 'truth'. It can ONLY be done through The Spirit. That IS the WHY of the Body. Each member has it's OWN place and function.
Now, WHERE IS THE BODY TODAY? The CC? The Baptists? The Methodists? The independents? I propose that NONE of these IS The Body. There may CERTAINLY BE members of the Body contained within all of the above, but the institutions contain NO SINGLE BODY. For MOST that attend AnY of the above offered are simply 'playing the game' with little or NO true understanding of God or His Son.
There can BE no TRUE Body without being ONE in Christ. And one cannot be ONE with Christ WITHOUT KNOWING Christ. IF the CC MISSED the 'truth' of the 'WHO' of Christ, then their ability to be ONE with Him was impeded from the START. And this IS what was passed down from generation to generation EVEN INTO the PROTESTANT FAITH.
There is CERTAINLY 'a body', but THE BODY cannot exist WITHOUT KNOWING 'WHO' Christ IS. And THIS is what I have attempted to 'point out' since my 'coming to this forum'.
In my FIRST THREAD; 'Trinity' Biblically sound, or Catholic baggage', I 'attempted' to SHOW how the Catholic Church 'missed' some of the MOST crucial teachings of Christ. How they MISS guessed the TRUTH and, instead, followed their OWN WAY. How they DID NOT; 'start over', but simply incorporated the 'name' Christ INTO their previous pagan doctrine and ritual. Thus, perpetuating 'man-made' religion in the 'guise of' Christianity.
So, I will rest here. ASSURED that what I offer IS The TRUTH. The WHOLE TRUTH? I am NOT such a fool as to 'believe' this EVEN POSSIBLE. But ENOUGH of the TRUTH for ONE to FIND it. Enough to 'point one' in the RIGHT direction if they SO CHOOSE to follow. And the words that I offer CAN bring one to a fount of water that will FULFILL one's thirst. To the manna that 'fell from heaven'. Once eaten, one will NEVER hunger again for 'food', except that offered through The Word and The Spirit of God. Peace with Our Lord and His Father. But contention WITH THE WORLD in ways that one CANNOT imagine. But the STRENGTH to endure REGARDLESS. And MOST OF ALL, my friends, UNDERSTANDING that MOST CERTAINLY 'differs' from that which the world would 'choose'.
MEC
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