WHY DID GOD GIVE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

[Mitspa]

Mat 17:1






And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2



And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3



And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4



Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5



While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6



And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7



And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Mat 17:8



And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

Here we have Moses (The Law) and Elias (The Phophets) before God the Father on the mountain. We have Peter (The Church) who desires to honor all three and build an alter to each? The Father Speaks and to show His desire for the Church concerning His Son, He says This is My Beloved Son-Hear HIM, then the Law and Phophets disappear!

Here we may see the Will of The Father, that the Law and the Phophets were all fulfilled in Christ Jesus. That The Fathers Will is that we now Hear and See Him only!

Joh 15:12



This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

"The simplicity of Christ", for all the Law is fulfilled in His Commandment!:biglol

 

[savedbygrace57]

God gave the Commandments to bring His Elect to Faith in Christ, the One who was qualified toi Keep them the way they should be Kept. For Christ is the end of the Law for everyone that is Believing Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For He was the only Man that Kept the Law the way it should be Kept, Perfectly, not one sin against it in deed, speech, or thought !

Isa 42:21

The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

 

[Mitspa]

God gave the Commandments to bring His Elect to Faith in Christ, the One who was qualified toi Keep them the way they should be Kept. For Christ is the end of the Law for everyone that is Believing Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For He was the only Man that Kept the Law the way it should be Kept, Perfectly, not one sin against it in deed, speech, or thought !

Isa 42:21

The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Not sure of what the term "elect" means to you but again I find we agree on the purpose of the Law.

 

[Mitspa]

Isa 30:1






Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

Gal 3:2



This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3


Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?











Isa 30:3



Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.

Rom 8:15



For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.







Isa 30:5


They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach.

Heb 7:18


For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19


For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.





Isa 30:9


That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:

Rom 3:19


Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.






Isa 30:15


For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

Heb 4:2


For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3


For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.



One can see clearly that it was spoken by the Prophet, that they would be many who would not hear the Law and turn to Christ Jesus and Him alone For salvation. But many still continue on in their own works of rightoeusness, which God has condemned!

 

[John 8:32]

What you mean then what ? That was the Purpose of the Law !

Man cannot follow the example of Christ in fulfilling the Law as He did. That is why He did it.

Do you think it can be said of you ?
Isa 42:21

The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

This is what should be said of us...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[savedbygrace57]

jn 8

This is what should be said of us...

I said what I should have said, but you have no answer for it !

 

[John 8:32]

God gave the Commandments to bring His Elect to Faith in Christ, the One who was qualified toi Keep them the way they should be Kept. For Christ is the end of the Law for everyone that is Believing Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

For He was the only Man that Kept the Law the way it should be Kept, Perfectly, not one sin against it in deed, speech, or thought !

Isa 42:21

The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Of course not, you nor I nor any other human can do what Christ did. The point is He did do this...


New International Version (©1984)
It pleased the LORD for the sake of his righteousness to make his law great and glorious.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Because he is righteous, the LORD has exalted his glorious law.

English Standard Version (©2001)
The LORD was pleased, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify his law and make it glorious.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
The LORD was pleased for His righteousness' sake To make the law great and glorious.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The LORD is pleased because he does what is right. He praises the greatness of his teachings and makes them glorious.

American Standard Version
It pleased Jehovah, for his righteousness'sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord was willing to sanctify him, and to magnify the law, and exalt it.

Darby Bible Translation
Jehovah had delight in him for his righteousness' sake: he hath magnified the law, and made it honourable.

English Revised Version
It pleased the LORD, for his righteousness' sake, to magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Webster's Bible Translation
The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honorable.

World English Bible
It pleased Yahweh, for his righteousness' sake, to magnify the law, and make it honorable.

Young's Literal Translation
Jehovah hath delight for the sake of His righteousness, He magnifieth law, and maketh honourable.

As the King James has it...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will (1)magnify the law, and make it (2)honourable.

1.) Magnify

H1431
גּדל
gâdal
gaw-dal'
A primitive root; properly to twist (compare H1434), that is, to be (causatively make) large (in various senses, as in body, mind, estate or honor, also in pride): - advance, boast, bring up, exceed, excellent, be (-come, do, give, make, wax), great (-er, come to . . estate, + things), grow (up), increase, lift up, magnify (-ifical), be much set by, nourish (up), pass, promote, proudly [spoken], tower.

2.) honourable

H142
אדר
'âdar
aw-dar
A primitive root; to expand, that is, be great or (figuratively) magnificent: - (become) glorious, honourable.

The word for law in this verse is...

H8451
תּרה תּורה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

Having looked at the Hebrew words, what I see is that Christ would come to proudly promote to a position of honor and glory the Torah.

I don't see one word about doing away with it, but rather putting the Torah in the forefront.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Rom 3:19

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Gal 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12

And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.



Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

I find it really hard to understand how satan has so blinded much of the "church" It seems so few understand what is so clear?

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh shall be justified", but the word law in this statement Paul is referring to the written code put into effect by Moses, and it is true that no flesh will be justified by observing that code as it is. But.
"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 In this statement, however, the word law Paul is referring too is a law that was added to the law after Jesus' was crucified. This law was put into effect by angles, note Acts 7:53 & Gal. 3:19, after Jesus was crucified and returned back to his Father, note Heb. 7:12, the law was modified. Satan has blinded so much of the "church" because it is his church that has been built on the foundation of "I aint' gotta obey no damned law to be justified by God." Yeah right! You've been conned by Satan, buddy, and you are going to be cheated out of life. If you don't get your head in gear about the law of God.

 

[John 8:32]

"Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh shall be justified", but the word law in this statement Paul is referring to the written code put into effect by Moses, and it is true that no flesh will be justified by observing that code as it is. But.
"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 In this statement, however, the word law Paul is referring too is a law that was added to the law after Jesus' was crucified. This law was put into effect by angles, note Acts 7:53 & Gal. 3:19, after Jesus was crucified and returned back to his Father, note Heb. 7:12, the law was modified. Satan has blinded so much of the "church" because it is his church that has been built on the foundation of "I aint' gotta obey no damned law to be justified by God." Yeah right! You've been conned by Satan, buddy, and you are going to be cheated out of life. If you don't get your head in gear about the law of God.

When Christ spoke of the law, He was referring to the Torah and specifically to the Ten Commandments. After all, it was He who gave the law at Mt. Sinai. Here is what He said while sojourning on earth about the law...

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Christ was speaking no new doctrine or law of His own, but what He had seen and heard and learned of the Father...

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Where did He hear this from?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Why, these are the same Commandments that He spoke on Mt. Sinai, which the Father had given Him then.

 

[Mitspa]

When Christ spoke of the law, He was referring to the Torah and specifically to the Ten Commandments. After all, it was He who gave the law at Mt. Sinai. Here is what He said while sojourning on earth about the law...

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Christ was speaking no new doctrine or law of His own, but what He had seen and heard and learned of the Father...

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Where did He hear this from?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Why, these are the same Commandments that He spoke on Mt. Sinai, which the Father had given Him then.

I have given many sciptures and made many clear points on this thread. No one has made a point on the content of my post, just to use a few random sciptures that go against the clear truth of the New Covanant. I will be glad to have an honest debate about these issues, point by point and in a polite way, if any so desires it. I Have covered many of the points that some have made today, if any care to go back and look? I do not want to run in circles but more than glad to cover the CLEAR TRUTH , and prove it to any honest person. Now I also say that since none of you have have challenged the sciptures I have used, that maybe you have a conflict with what is written or said? The LAW is Good for its purpose. The conflict is not in the scriptures between Paul and The Lord, Its in you and me. The Word is perfect, we are not. The law was made to show us we are not so that we might run to Him who is.

 

[smaller]

I have given many sciptures and made many clear points on this thread. No one has made a point on the content of my post, just to use a few random sciptures that go against the clear truth of the New Covanant. I will be glad to have an honest debate about these issues, point by point and in a polite way, if any so desires it. I Have covered many of the points that some have made today, if any care to go back and look? I do not want to run in circles but more than glad to cover the CLEAR TRUTH , and prove it to any honest person. Now I also say that since none of you have have challenged the sciptures I have used, that maybe you have a conflict with what is written or said? The LAW is Good for its purpose. The conflict is not in the scriptures between Paul and The Lord, Its in you and me. The Word is perfect, we are not. The law was made to show us we are not so that we might run to Him who is.

The bold bottom line is sufficient enough to understand the futility of salvation via legal compliance.

The construct however is not all that accurate. Paul in Gal. 5 was clear about these actions 'in believers' as disqualification measure for kingdom entrance:

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

As much as you'd like to try to blame 'evil flesh' for the above the fact is that these things transpire in people inclusive of believers.

And one does not have to know a whole lot about the Law to figure out murder is on the list above and is also against the Law as is adultery, witchcraft, idolatry, drunkeness, etc etc.

The genuine challenge for any believer seeking to understand the difference between Law and Grace is how Paul denied salvation by legal obedience, yet disqualified inheritance to the kingdom of God by not being legally obedient.

There remains the heart of the issues.

This was put to you earlier but I don't think you understand the complexity of the subject matter all that much, and as such you (and many others) merely camp under the scriptures you prefer on the matters i.e. only the good ones you like and excuse the facts of having sin which is a basic disqualification as Paul notes above.

Anyone who has put forth any time at all actually digging into this subject will find two seemingly diametrically opposed positions on this matter from the Apostles. Pro law and Pro Grace.

Most give the Law the quick brush off because they automatically KNOW they have sin regardless.

Paul and the other Apostles however disqualify entry to illegal disobedience.

Paul was so adamant about not falling into sexual sins (prohibited under the Law) that he went this far to emphasis his strict avoidance of ILLEGAL activity in this way:

1 Corinthians 7:1
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

Usually any believer, if pressed, will admit that we are not to be lawless such as murdering or committing adultery. So in this any 'decent' believer recognizes at least a certain level of LEGAL ACTIVITY.

My sight tends to get a little deeper on this particular subject matter and it winds up in a place few care to really hear about. And that is the connection between SIN and the DEVIL.

The fact that believers really DO NOT LIKE to connect that dot only tells me they are not really all that interested in getting real about subject matters of sin and even more, that it is perhaps not even them who can not HEAR the facts of sins workings in conjunction with SATAN from a scriptural perspective.

So you can point to your evil flesh all the day long. When the devil is pointed to, many carnal minds jump up to protect him and insulate/isolate their sin from being SO connected. In fact it's predicted in the text that such do so.

Believers will take just about any angle but the TRUTH on this particular subject matter.

s

 

[Mitspa]

The bold bottom line is sufficient enough to understand the futility of salvation via legal compliance.

The construct however is not all that accurate. Paul in Gal. 5 was clear about these actions 'in believers' as disqualification measure for kingdom entrance:

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

As much as you'd like to try to blame 'evil flesh' for the above the fact is that these things transpire in people inclusive of believers.

And one does not have to know a whole lot about the Law to figure out murder is on the list above and is also against the Law as is adultery, witchcraft, idolatry, drunkeness, etc etc.

The genuine challenge for any believer seeking to understand the difference between Law and Grace is how Paul denied salvation by legal obedience, yet disqualified inheritance to the kingdom of God by not being legally obedient.

There remains the heart of the issues.

The "issue" for the Believer is "flesh" which cannot inherit the Kingdom! The Spirit which is to live in and receive the kingdom. No believer can walk in the "spirit" until they have died to the Law. Its impossible to be a sinner and also be in the "spirit" Now according to the sciptures "grace" through faith alone can overcome the flesh and the sin in the flesh. There is no other way!

Now this thread is about the purpose of the Law and I also remember you from a few days ago when you tried to say that the "flesh" is not sinful? I doubt you can understand these things? But if you are willing to have an honest discussion, I will take the time to show you truth.

Can you explain what Paul was saying in this Scipture? It will save us alot of time if you can? Because you will understand why Paul had to speak to two different groups of people, "Spiritual" and "Carnal" or "flesh" who can not receive the Kingdom of God by the "Spirit"

1Co 3:1


And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

 

[smaller]

It does not take long for any 'pro Grace' 'anti-Law' believer to spend any amount of study time to find scriptures PRO LAW and likewise scriptures Grace being PRO LAW and anti-SIN.

When they do they will find their 'pro-Grace' 'anti-Law' positions quite entirely AGAINST the scriptures.

The door of understandings was cracked open for me to study further in an online with an account from another believer who I sensed had an honest approach to the subject matter, and I pressed him in dialog to show what he knew. One can pick up matters from sharing in case anybody missed that.

The conversation went generally like this:

me: How can God from the Grace Alone perspectives be against His Laws?

him: They are not. God can not be against His Own Words. God said from His Own Mouth that every jot and tittle of the LAW stands, yet also said His Grace is sufficient.

me: If Grace and Law are both against sin how can they then be different in this respect?

him: They aren't. WHO is the LAW written against?

me: The lawless.

him: What is lawlessness?

me: Sin! But we all have sin and can not say we don't and be in Truth!

him: Would you consider the devil and his messengers lawless?

me: Undoubtedly

him: Where did Jesus show the devil and his messengers to be?

me: In MAN

I gulped at the end of the exchange because I knew immediately I had to face a dirty little fact about my OWN SIN.

The understanding is secure. It may not be heard by many. But the fact is that every last one of us 'have sin' and sin is also in fact 'of the DEVIL.'

I will at this point jump to one of the LAST condemnations of SATAN in order for anyone whom GOD ELECTS to hear, to hear THE LOCATION of the voice of the Bride and Bridegroom.

It is the fulcrum of my HOPE in the Gospel, Rev. 18:

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth

Come out of her my people is a call that EVERY BELIEVER will in fact HEAR because WHY?

Do the math.

s

 

[Mitspa]

It does not take long for any 'pro Grace' 'anti-Law' believer to spend any amount of study time to find scriptures PRO LAW and likewise scriptures Grace being PRO LAW and anti-SIN.

When they do they will find their 'pro-Grace' 'anti-Law' positions quite entirely AGAINST the scriptures.

The door of understandings was cracked open for me to study further in an online with an account from another believer who I sensed had an honest approach to the subject matter, and I pressed him in dialog to show what he knew. One can pick up matters from sharing in case anybody missed that.

The conversation went generally like this:

me: How can God from the Grace Alone perspectives be against His Laws?

him: They are not. God can not be against His Own Words. God said from His Own Mouth that every jot and tittle of the LAW stands, yet also said His Grace is sufficient.

me: If Grace and Law are both against sin how can they then be different in this respect?

him: They aren't. WHO is the LAW written against?

me: The lawless.

him: What is lawlessness?

me: Sin! But we all have sin and can not say we don't and be in Truth!

him: Would you consider the devil and his messengers lawless?

me: Undoubtedly

him: Where did Jesus show the devil and his messengers to be?

me: In MAN

I gulped at the end of the exchange because I knew immediately I had to face a dirty little fact about my OWN SIN.

The understanding is secure. It may not be heard by many. But the fact is that every last one of us 'have sin' and sin is also in fact 'of the DEVIL.'

I will at this point jump to one of the LAST condemnations of SATAN in order for anyone whom GOD ELECTS to hear, to hear THE LOCATION of the voice of the Bride and Bridegroom.

It is the fulcrum of my HOPE in the Gospel, Rev. 18:

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth

Come out of her my people is a call that EVERY BELIEVER will in fact HEAR because WHY?

Do the math.

s

Are you OK?
what is your point?

 

[smaller]

[/SIZE][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE]

The "issue" for the Believer is "flesh" which cannot inherit the Kingdom!

"-they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Having EVIL FLESH is not going to cut it.

The Spirit which is to live in and receive the kingdom. No believer can walk in the "spirit" until they have died to the Law. Its impossible to be a sinner and also be in the "spirit" Now according to the sciptures "grace" through faith alone can overcome the flesh and the sin in the flesh. There is no other way!

And I would call that no small delusion, but a GREAT DELUSION.

It is equally impossible to be both a SAINT and A LIAR in claiming any of us are currently SINLESS.

Now this thread is about the purpose of the Law and I also remember you from a few days ago when you tried to say that the "flesh" is not sinful? I doubt you can understand these things? But if you are willing to have an honest discussion, I will take the time to show you truth.

I certainly understand that you have difficulty with the subject matter and have instead fallen into centuries old gnostic heresy understandings about 'evil flesh/matter.'

Can you explain what Paul was saying in this Scipture? It will save us alot of time if you can? Because you will understand why Paul had to speak to two different groups of people, "Spiritual" and "Carnal" or "flesh" who can not receive the Kingdom of God by the "Spirit"

Find a single claim where Paul lied by saying he was SINLESS.

The notion that sinlessness is dangled before us is utter nonsense. You will find the exact opposite statement by Paul, that he was in fact THE CHIEF OF SINNERS.

And it was not a WAS terminology. He specified 'I AM' the chief of sinners post salvation.

s

 

[Mitspa]

Rom 8:3



For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4



That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Rom 8:10



And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11



But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


Gal 5:13



For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14



For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15



But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16



This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17



For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18



But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.






Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13



For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Rom 8:14



For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Your not making much sense but maybe these scriptures will help you understand the only way to overcome the sinful "flesh" is by the "spirit"

 

[smaller]

Are you OK?
what is your point?

Having 'fun' with theology. Would you like me to be some other way for you?

 

[Mitspa]

Having 'fun' with theology. Would you like me to be some other way for you?

Well thats about what your doctrines seems to add up too!:toofunny

 

[smaller]

Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Gal 5:13
For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
Gal 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal 5:15
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
Gal 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Your not making much sense but maybe these scriptures will help you understand the only way to overcome the sinful "flesh" is by the "spirit"

Most who post here probably have a pretty good grip on the texts. Thanks.

Your last statement is however a statement that stands without supported merit.

If you'd like to actually respond to a post, try putting 'quote /quote' with my statements and respond with specifics as that might be considered reasonable exchange methodology, as I do with yours. I might even highlight and bold some of the statements that I find entertaining and worthy of scriptural rebuttal in your posts. And those are only points of alt contemplations in any case whenever I do so. Never meant to 'hinder' the faith of anyone. I believe everyone who has called upon the Lord to save them WILL BE.

Theology from that point on is a matter of enjoyment, understanding and sharing.

enjoy!

s

 

[smaller]

Well thats about what your doctrines seems to add up too!:toofunny

my doctrines? that's funny too. I do try to stay with specifics.

And scripture engagements tend to have some most interesting dichotomies built in.

For every camper under one flag, there is alt scriptures that really are meant to pull down all flags.