M
Mitspa
Guest
I am very glad for you!
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Are you taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
M
Mitspa
Guest
I have given many sciptures and made many clear points on this thread. No one has made a point on the content of my post, just to use a few random sciptures that go against the clear truth of the New Covanant. I will be glad to have an honest debate about these issues, point by point and in a polite way, if any so desires it. I Have covered many of the points that some have made today, if any care to go back and look? I do not want to run in circles but more than glad to cover the CLEAR TRUTH , and prove it to any honest person. Now I also say that since none of you have have challenged the sciptures I have used, that maybe you have a conflict with what is written or said? The LAW is Good for its purpose. The conflict is not in the scriptures between Paul and The Lord, Its in you and me. The Word is perfect, we are not. The law was made to show us we are not so that we might run to Him who is.
Isa 30:1
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
Gal 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Isa 30:3
Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.
Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Isa 30:5
They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach.
Heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Isa 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Isa 30:15
For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
One can see clearly that it was spoken by the Prophet, that they would be many who would not hear the Law and turn to Christ Jesus and Him alone For salvation. But many still continue on in their own works of rightoeusness, which God has condemned!
Isa 30:1
Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:
Gal 3:2
This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Isa 30:3
Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion.
Rom 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Isa 30:5
They were all ashamed of a people that could not profit them, nor be an help nor profit, but a shame, and also a reproach.
Heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Isa 30:9
That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Isa 30:15
For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.
Heb 4:2
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
One can see clearly that it was spoken by the Prophet, that they would be many who would not hear the Law and turn to Christ Jesus and Him alone For salvation. But many still continue on in their own works of rightoeusness, which God has condemned!
Theodore A. Jones
Member
Not so fast bub.
1. You've got to PROVE that Rom. 2:13 is a false statement.
2. You've got to PROVE that Heb. 7:12 is a false statement.
3. You've got to PROVE that the two statements Acts 7:53 "put into effect by angles" and Gal. 3:19 "The law was put into effect through angles by a mediator." are not credible witnessed accounts and impeach both witnesses.
4. You've got to PROVE that Isa. 51:4 "for a law shall proceed from Me." is a false statement. Or you do NOT have any legs to stand on. Comprenda?
D
Deborah13
Guest
Romans 6:23 - Is one of the best grace scriptures. I love this one!
1 John 3:4 - Well every christian knows that. Even most non-believers know we believe that.
If I drive 1 mile an hour over the speed limit I have sinned!
So my question was, which sins can you get away with and still be saved and which ones send you to hell if you were to die immediately after commiting the sin?
Are there usually consequences for breaking the law, yep. But I can state for a fact we don't get what we deserve, not ever. And sometimes, God just looks at your heart and your pain, and says "Where are your accusers? I don't condemn you, go and sin no more."
smaller
Member
I am very glad for you!
It would be even better if you had a discussion rather than posting vast segments of texts that we are all quite familiar with.
So far we have from your arena of understanding, EVIL FLESH, a gnostic heresy
and
a claim that it is impossible to be a sinner.
I admit a certain entertainment value from such claims but as to validity of view on a comparative to scriptues?
Not a chance.
s
Theodore A. Jones
Member
"Where are your accusers?" it is recorded that it happened once, but don't hold your breath and test Him. "The guilty shall not go unpunished."
smaller
Member
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
Paul made that statement post salvation, present tense.
2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
Interesting dichotomy isn't it Ted?
s
M
Mitspa
Guest
Rom 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Here is the point!
Rom 2:25
For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26
Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
Rom 2:27
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Rom 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Heb 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Here is the point!
Heb 7:13
For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14
For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15
And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16
Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17
For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18
For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19
For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
I hope these few sciptures are not keeping you in bondage to the law, when you have to do is read a little before them and after them to see their purpose.:o
If you want an honest discussion? I will be glad to have one but for some reason I doubt you will accept to clear meaning of these scriptures?
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M
Mitspa
Guest
Gal 4:22
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
All those who attempt to keep the Law, any part of it, are in the "flesh" and cannot enter into the "Spirit". One must "reckon" themselves dead to the law, through the Cross, to enter into the "Spirit".
Gal 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Isaac was called the "son of my laughter"! The oil of gladness is poured out for us, Righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit! Take a good look at the "law-keepers" do you see "joy unspeakable and full of glory" or someone trying to pass a kidney stone?
Gal 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Make no mistake its every believers job to challenge the "law-keepers" to confront them in their error! Then you will know what it means to suffer with Christ for His Gospel. As it was with Cain and Able, Joseph and his brothers, David and his..etc Those you love the most will become your enemy!
Mat 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Here is the obedience of Christ, here is the cross we all must take-up! His Cross, that through it the law is finished!
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
All those who attempt to keep the Law, any part of it, are in the "flesh" and cannot enter into the "Spirit". One must "reckon" themselves dead to the law, through the Cross, to enter into the "Spirit".
Gal 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27
For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Isaac was called the "son of my laughter"! The oil of gladness is poured out for us, Righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit! Take a good look at the "law-keepers" do you see "joy unspeakable and full of glory" or someone trying to pass a kidney stone?
Gal 4:29
But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Make no mistake its every believers job to challenge the "law-keepers" to confront them in their error! Then you will know what it means to suffer with Christ for His Gospel. As it was with Cain and Able, Joseph and his brothers, David and his..etc Those you love the most will become your enemy!
Mat 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Here is the obedience of Christ, here is the cross we all must take-up! His Cross, that through it the law is finished!
Repentance is a state of mind, obedience is a state of mind. God knows our heart and those who are striving to overcome sin are forgiven because we live in a constant state of repentance. When we slip and fall, our intention is not to sin, but as Paul states...
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul wanted to live sinless but found himself sinning. None of us is perfect. He asked the real question in verse 24 that all of us face, who will deliver us from sin? Then, in verse 25, he gives the answer!
Theodore A. Jones
Member
PROOF? NADA. Make another try.
Theodore A. Jones
Member
"Which sins can you get away with?" none. But the activities that are sinful and identifiable by the written code are resolvable. However the action that is not in compliance to the law which has been added has NO possibility of recourse to any process of known or future adjudication. For there will never be any future modification possible of the written code or to the law which has been added since it is impossible to crucify Jesus again.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
jn 832
Thats the point, God never gave it in the first place for humans to try to keep it, the Purpose was to expose man's inability to keep it, beginning with Adam, and to point them to the One and Only one who was to keep it fr the Glory of God !
Isa 42:21
21The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Thats the point, God never gave it in the first place for humans to try to keep it, the Purpose was to expose man's inability to keep it, beginning with Adam, and to point them to the One and Only one who was to keep it fr the Glory of God !
Isa 42:21
21The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.
Just out of curiosity, what translation are you reading?
Lev 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Interesting way to say do away with them...
New International Version (©1984)
It pleased the LORD for the sake of his righteousness to make his law great and glorious.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Because he is righteous, the LORD has exalted his glorious law.
English Standard Version (©2001)
The LORD was pleased, for his righteousness’ sake, to magnify his law and make it glorious.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
The LORD was pleased for His righteousness' sake To make the law great and glorious.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
The LORD is pleased because he does what is right. He praises the greatness of his teachings and makes them glorious.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord was willing to sanctify him, and to magnify the law, and exalt it.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
jn 8
Thats not important quit being evasive !
The Law has not been done away with, it was fulfilled by Christ !
Thats not important quit being evasive !
The Law has not been done away with, it was fulfilled by Christ !
Theodore A. Jones
Member
The law was fulfilled by adding a word to it.
Actually, it may be important, because plain scriptures that say the law was given to be obeyed and given for our good and given to convert the soul, don't appear to be in the translation you are using.
You say it is not done away, and yet you say it is not in force on us. Hmmm, seems contradictory to me.
The law was fulfilled by writing it in our hearts and minds...
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Christ gave examples of this in Mat 5-7
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Mat 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Mat 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
etc.
Theodore A. Jones
Member
[Edited by staff] The written code was given so that only one sacrifice under that code could perfect the Way to legally assign unilateral guilt to every individual prior to and after that sacrifice. The loss of his life caused by bloodshed is a guilt offering to God in perpetuity. Thereby he became an accountable sin for us so that whosoever has the faith of confess to that sin might be come the righteousness of God. You really have no idea of what you are talking about.
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