Why not call Mary the mother of God and Queen of heaven

[thessalonian]

So, essentially, by your reckoning, anyone who disagrees with you has not been born of God. Well, that's straightforward enough, and I appreciate your candor.

That's the way I'm reading this.

 

[Solo]

Whether the gospel is preached from the pulpit, taught in a classroom, or revealed in one's personal study of the Bible, the Holy Spirit teaches those that have his indwelling presence. Those that do not have the Holy Spirit can not know this relationship, nor can they know the workings of the Holy Spirit within a believer. Those who are born again learn in the beginning the basic doctrines as babes in Christ Jesus and as they excercise their beliefs and mature in their spiritual growth, they learn deeper and meatier doctrines of Christianity.

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

So, essentially, by your reckoning, anyone who disagrees with you has not been born of God. Well, that's straightforward enough, and I appreciate your candor.

According to the Holy Spirit, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation as I read the Word, then I investigate where the fallacy is.

The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[thessalonian]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation as I read the Word, then I investigate where the fallacy is.

The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

OC's summary was better. Though they were both essentially the same.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation AS I READ THE WORD, then I investigate where the fallacy is

Case in point.

The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

How do we know YOU are not one of those "men that are without the Holy Spirit"? Can you prove you have it?

 

[Solo]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation as I read the Word, then I investigate where the fallacy is.

The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

OC's summary was better. Though they were both essentially the same.

You forgot this part of the post.

According to the Holy Spirit, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

 

[thessalonian]

oops

 

[BradtheImpaler]

You forgot this part of the post.

According to the Holy Spirit, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I'll probably drive MYSELF crazy :-? before you get the point but I've always been a glutton for punishment so here goes...

How do we know that YOU are not the "man without the Spirit" who is arguing with those who do have the Spirit and what they are saying is "foolishness" to YOU?

 

[Solo]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation AS I READ THE WORD, then I investigate where the fallacy is

Case in point.

[quote:68913]The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

How do we know YOU are not one of those "men that are without the Holy Spirit"? Can you prove you have it?[/quote:68913]
Because I have no reason to tell you that Jesus died for your sins and you should repent and believe in him so that you don't have to pay the penalty for your own sin, unless the Holy Spirit gave me the love of all to stand up for the truth in their best interests.

Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Jesus is the Word, who dwelt among men in the flesh prior to ascending to sit beside God the Father. Jesus is Lord and will judge all mankind for their works. Jesus defeated death, sin, and has overcome the world so that each of us have hope to live with him for eternity.

 

[thessalonian]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation as I read the Word, then I investigate where the fallacy is.

The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

OC's summary was better. Though they were both essentially the same.

You forgot this part of the post.

According to the Holy Spirit, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

No, I don't think I did. Hey, ya know what I understand everything you say and I don't think it is foolish per sey. It's just easy believism and people lap it up like dogs and are easily decieved by it. It is evident to me that you don't understand everything I say and consider much of it to be foolishness. So guess what! Your wrong by the very verse you think makes your case.

 

[Solo]

You forgot this part of the post.

According to the Holy Spirit, "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

I'll probably drive MYSELF crazy :-? before you get the point but I've always been a glutton for punishment so here goes...

How do we know that YOU are not the "man without the Spirit" who is arguing with those who do have the Spirit and what they are saying is "foolishness" to YOU?

Because I used to be the "man without the Spirit" and lived that way for twenty-eight years prior to being born again. Reading the Bible without the Spirit of God is like reading a book in a language that you don't know. Reading the Bible with the Spirit of God is like having a conversation with Jesus Christ as you read.

After being born again, the scriptures stuck in my understanding and memory like glue, and even at a young Christian age (less than a year) I furnished an SDA evangelist with scripture that refuted his claims to my needing to become saved in his denomination. Joe Crews visited my apartment back then, and has been dead for some years now, but I enjoyed listening to his 30 day SDA crusade back when I was seeking. I remember his comment that he had a ten year old son that had died and went to heaven, and that he was going to meet him there one day. I think he probably made it.

 

[thessalonian]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation AS I READ THE WORD, then I investigate where the fallacy is

Case in point.

[quote:8a5f4]The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

How do we know YOU are not one of those "men that are without the Holy Spirit"? Can you prove you have it?

Because I have no reason to tell you that Jesus died for your sins and you should repent and believe in him so that you don't have to pay the penalty for your own sin, unless the Holy Spirit gave me the love of all to stand up for the truth in their best interests.

Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Jesus is the Word, who dwelt among men in the flesh prior to ascending to sit beside God the Father. Jesus is Lord and will judge all mankind for their works. Jesus defeated death, sin, and has overcome the world so that each of us have hope to live with him for eternity.[/quote:8a5f4]

Why Solo. That was very nicely stated. I agree. Therefore it is I that have the Holy Spirit. Not you. :smt026:

 

[Solo]

If an institution that calls itself a church disagrees with the Holy Spirit's interpretation AS I READ THE WORD, then I investigate where the fallacy is

Case in point.

[quote:e9206]The Holy Spirit teaches me that there are men that are without the Holy Spirit, and that they cannot accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for those things are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand the things that come from the Spirit of God, because they are spiritually discerned.

How do we know YOU are not one of those "men that are without the Holy Spirit"? Can you prove you have it?

Because I have no reason to tell you that Jesus died for your sins and you should repent and believe in him so that you don't have to pay the penalty for your own sin, unless the Holy Spirit gave me the love of all to stand up for the truth in their best interests.

Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Jesus is the Word, who dwelt among men in the flesh prior to ascending to sit beside God the Father. Jesus is Lord and will judge all mankind for their works. Jesus defeated death, sin, and has overcome the world so that each of us have hope to live with him for eternity.

Why Solo. That was very nicely stated. I agree. Therefore it is I that have the Holy Spirit. Not you. :smt026:[/quote:e9206]
Then you will do the right thing and stop messing with that apostate religion that you are messed up with, and start listening to the Holy Spirit so that you can live in the truth instead of a lie.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

How do we know YOU are not one of those "men that are without the Holy Spirit"? Can you prove you have it?

Because I have no reason to tell you that Jesus died for your sins and you should repent and believe in him so that you don't have to pay the penalty for your own sin, unless the Holy Spirit gave me the love of all to stand up for the truth in their best interests

That's it? :-? Because you (in effect) preach to others, proves that you have an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving God living inside you? I'm sorry but I would think there would be something MORE? Most people with a sincere belief can't help but to tell others about it and even sometimes earnestly try to convince them of it. This is a normal, natural human behaviour - and it certainly doesn't provide any evidence that what they have to share is true.

 

[Solo]

How do we know YOU are not one of those "men that are without the Holy Spirit"? Can you prove you have it?

Because I have no reason to tell you that Jesus died for your sins and you should repent and believe in him so that you don't have to pay the penalty for your own sin, unless the Holy Spirit gave me the love of all to stand up for the truth in their best interests

That's it? :-? Because you (in effect) preach to others, proves that you have an infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving God living inside you? I'm sorry but I would think there would be something MORE? Most people with a sincere belief can't help but to tell others about it and even sometimes earnestly try to convince them of it. This is a normal, natural human behaviour - and it certainly doesn't provide any evidence that what they have to share is true.

Believe what you like. It is up to you, not me. Good luck.

 

[thessalonian]

Then you will do the right thing and stop messing with that apostate religion that you are messed up with, and start listening to the Holy Spirit so that you can live in the truth instead of a lie.

I see then. So your statement was not enough to prove you were the one with the Holy Spirit. In other words you lied. Couldn't have been the Holy Spirit that lied so it must have been fleshy you.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

]How do we know that YOU are not the "man without the Spirit" who is arguing with those who do have the Spirit and what they are saying is "foolishness" to YOU?

Because I used to be the "man without the Spirit" and lived that way for twenty-eight years prior to being born again. Reading the Bible without the Spirit of God is like reading a book in a language that you don't know. Reading the Bible with the Spirit of God is like having a conversation with Jesus Christ as you read.

After being born again, the scriptures stuck in my understanding and memory like glue, and even at a young Christian age (less than a year) I furnished an SDA evangelist with scripture that refuted his claims to my needing to become saved in his denomination. Joe Crews visited my apartment back then, and has been dead for some years now, but I enjoyed listening to his 30 day SDA crusade back when I was seeking. I remember his comment that he had a ten year old son that had died and went to heaven, and that he was going to meet him there one day. I think he probably made it.

I appreciate your testimony Solo, but you see, for instance, I believe it is "Orthodoxy" who also has a similar testimony - only he spent 30 some years in some form of Protestantism before he "saw the light" of the Orthodox Church, a church which holds many doctrines you believe are unscriptural. So again, who are we to believe? We could no doubt research TEN'S OF THOUSANDS of sincere testimonies of people who believe God led them out of one church/movement into another, and tens of thousands of equally sincere testimonies that God led people INTO the same churches/movements the first group claim he led them OUT of.

What can we glean from this, if anything? That religious experience is subjective in nature, and that there's something really wrong when millions claim the same God, and the same indwelling Spirit, but are divided into hundreds (thousands?) of sects - especially when the founder of this religion prayed that his followers would be "one" (and Jesus has to always get his prayers answered)

If all this is evidence of anything, might it suggest that Christianity, itself, is not true? :o

 

[thessalonian]

Seems to me that the best way to know what is true is to look for where Jesus told the people of his time the truth would be. He said he would build a Church upon a rock and the gates of hell would not prevail againt that Churhc. He said it is that church which would be the pillar and support of the truth. Thus when one finds that Church they find the truth being upheld over time (the gates of hell shall not prevail). Thus those which are johnny come lately wanna be Churches and people who say look here, I have the truth myself. I interprut the Bible 100% correctly myself and obviously I have the Holy Spirit are not to be trusted if they do not abide by his Churches teachings. There is only one Church with the 2000 year track record to fit Christ's words about his Church.


Blessings

 

[Aloha Joe]

Joe Crews visited my apartment back then, and has been dead for some years now, but I enjoyed listening to his 30 day SDA crusade back when I was seeking. I remember his comment that he had a ten year old son that had died and went to heaven, and that he was going to meet him there one day. I think he probably made it.

SDAs don't believe that the soul goes to heaven upon death. To my knowledge, Joe Crews didn't deviate from this SDA belief. Errm...a bit of topic, sorry.

 

[SpiritualSon]

Mary, Queen of heaven was not official till 1954, by the fool Pope Pius XII.

Harry :fadein:

 

[thessalonian]

Mary, Queen of heaven was not official till 1954, by the fool Pope Pius XII.

Harry :fadein:

"the fool"? My aren't we charitable today. Which is easier to love, someone you like and agree with or someone you don't like and disagree with? Which does Christ ask us to love?

As for the Assumption, it was believed and taught LONNGGGG before 1954. ACtually it was 1950. It was always doctrine but became dogma in 1954.

Why should the dogma of the assumption be so offensive? All it says is that Mary' body was taken up in to heaven. Do you not believe that Mary was saved and is in heaven. You may not agree with the dogma but why on earth should it cause you to call Pius XII a fool?

God bless