Why not call Mary the mother of God and Queen of heaven

[Free]

Jesus is God Incarnate, that isn't even open for debate.

However, the term "Mother of God" is very misleading as it makes Mary out to be something she isn't and God to be something he isn't. The better term would be "Bearer of God" since Mary is not the biological mother of God, nor indeed can be. She only carried God in her womb, she didn't pass on any divine nature to actually create God as would be the case in a completely biological birth such as Jesus' brothers. Mary can be rightly called the "Mother of Jesus" or "Bearer of God".

 

[thessalonian]

King David said; "And the Lord said to my Lord;..." Do have a clue what that means? :o Jesus himslef said in John 14: 28,"...for the Father is greater than I."

A clue? Yes, I have a clue or two. I'm not saying that God had his beginning in Mary's womb. Only that she bore him in her womb and gave birth to him in to the world as a baby. She held him in her lap, taught him, fed him, clothed him, loved him. That is kinda the things that Mother's do. She did not just do these things with Jesus' humanity but his divinity was inseparable from his humanity. I wonder if Protestant Bible alone theology allows you to think. Jesus was born of woman. Not just his humanity but his divinity. God inserted the divine nature as well as the human soul in to the Christ child. He inserts our human soul in to us. Just because Mary the divine nature of Christ did not come in to existance at the conception of Christ does not mean that she was no less his mother.

I'd suggest you read the bible to see who Jesus is because you won't find that out from the catholic doctrine. Their Holy Father is the pope!

I highly doudt you know what Catholic doctrine is. Your certainly not showing any particular expertise.
I read the Bible, daily. Your condescention and prejudice is duly noted. I am Catholic by the way. God the Father is the Holy Father. That we call the Pope Holy Father does not lesson that. Is Father equivalent to God such that it cannot be used for a man? Men are called holy in scripture and so there is no problem with using that term for men. It means dedicated to God. So putting the two together, i.e. Holy and Father would not equal the infinite God. Moses is called Holy One and so is Jesus. So it would seem that just because a term is used for God that does not rule it out for a man. Sorry. Also it is false logic and bordering on prejucide when you say because we call the Pope Holy Father, we do not call God the Father Holy Father. You sound like you are making a dig with the comment.

God bless

 

[Solo]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

 

[thessalonian]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Screwballs? Sounds like a flame to me. Tell me, how blessed was Mary. Children are a blessings, am I not correct. So who was blessed more, the woman who gave birth to the Son of God or the average woman having a baby with a corrupt, sinful nature. Both are a blessing mind you. But which woman is more blessed? It's not a difficult question except for Mr. D46.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Jesus is God Incarnate, that isn't even open for debate

Don't get me started :wink:

]However, the term "Mother of God" is very misleading as it makes Mary out to be something she isn't and God to be something he isn't. The better term would be "Bearer of God" since Mary is not the biological mother of God, nor indeed can be. She only carried God in her womb, she didn't pass on any divine nature to actually create God as would be the case in a completely biological birth such as Jesus' brothers. Mary can be rightly called the "Mother of Jesus" or "Bearer of God"

Actually, the Orthodox use the term "Theotokos", which DOES mean "God Bearer", but then again, they don't believe that she "merely carried God in her womb" as you do - they think it goes deeper than that but also that she did not impart divinity to *God the Fetus*.

Synopsis: this issue, like so many bible issues, is a source of speculation and contention among Christians - evidence that the word of God provides more confusion than revelation even among those who honestly seek discernment.

(*God the Fetus*...hey, I like that and I think I'll begin using it The phrase doesn't appear in the bible but neither does "God the Son")

 

[Orthodox Christian]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Is that one of your infallible revelations?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Is that one of your infallible revelations?

Ah, "infallibility"...how much better we'd all get along if no scripture, church, or individual claimed it? :angel:

 

[Solo]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Is that one of your infallible revelations?

One day when you accept the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture for you, instead of a political/religious institution, you will know whether this was an infallible revelation or not.

As the Holy Spirit interprets scripture for you, you can claim 100% infallibility, but keep in mind, when you lean to your own understanding or the understanding of a manmade institution you will lose the 100% infallibility claim; because when you or I try to become infallible without the Holy Spirit, we are fooling ourselves.

 

[thessalonian]

we are fooling ourselves.

Someone certainly is.

blessings

 

[thessalonian]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Is that one of your infallible revelations?

Screwballs is one of those words when the Holy Spirit really gets going in him that just flows out of his mouth. He can't hep hisself. he been hypmotized. :o


: : :

 

[Solo]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Is that one of your infallible revelations?

Screwballs is one of those words when the Holy Spirit really gets going in him that just flows out of his mouth. He can't hep hisself. he been hypmotized. :o


: : :

Just so everyone knows the definition that I have chosen for screwball:

Main Entry: 1screw·ball
Pronunciation: 'skrü-"bol
Function: noun
1 : a baseball pitch that spins and breaks in the opposite direction to a curve
2 : a whimsical, eccentric, or crazy person : ZANY

I selected the synonym ZANY in definition 2 which leads us to this definition:

Main Entry: za·ny
Pronunciation: 'zA-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural zanies
Etymology: Italian zanni, a traditional masked clown, from Italian dialect Zanni, nickname for Italian Giovanni John
1 : a subordinate clown or acrobat in old comedies who mimics ludicrously the tricks of the principal : MERRY-ANDREW
2 : a slavish follower : TOADY
3 a : one who acts the buffoon to amuse others b : NUT, KOOK

Now I was tempted to use definition 3 for Nut and/or Kook, but instead selected definition 2 "A SLAVISH FOLLOWER" since it seemed to fit concerning the context of the point that I was making. :wink:

 

[BradtheImpaler]

As the Holy Spirit interprets scripture for you, you can claim 100% infallibility, but keep in mind, when you lean to your own understanding or the understanding of a manmade institution you will lose the 100% infallibility claim; because when you or I try to become infallible without the Holy Spirit, we are fooling ourselves.

And how do we know whether the Holy Spirit is interpreting scripture for someone or whether they are leaning on their own understanding? :-?

 

[Solo]

As the Holy Spirit interprets scripture for you, you can claim 100% infallibility, but keep in mind, when you lean to your own understanding or the understanding of a manmade institution you will lose the 100% infallibility claim; because when you or I try to become infallible without the Holy Spirit, we are fooling ourselves.

And how do we know whether the Holy Spirit is interpreting scripture for someone or whether they are leaning on their own understanding? :-?

The Holy Spirit will never lie, nor will His interpretation of scripture contradict other scripture. A man's interpretation can be influenced by his fleshly desires, and if so then the entire scripture will manifest the mistakes.


19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:19-21

 

[BradtheImpaler]

And how do we know whether the Holy Spirit is interpreting scripture for someone or whether they are leaning on their own understanding? :-?

The Holy Spirit will never lie, nor will His interpretation of scripture contradict other scripture. A man's interpretation can be influenced by his fleshly desires, and if so then the entire scripture will manifest the mistakes

And who decides whether one's interpretation contradicts another scripture or not, since everyone around here feels their interpretation is correct and doesn't contradict the rest of scripture?

 

[thessalonian]

The Holy Spirit will never lie, nor will His interpretation of scripture contradict other scripture. A man's interpretation can be influenced by his fleshly desires, and if so then the entire scripture will manifest the mistakes.

So if ya bleve what ya bleve is true, thin ya know it's true and yuv got the Holy Spirit. If ya bleve what ya bleve is false thin ya know ya don't hev the Holy Spirit. A course if ya go to Church somewhere (i.e. in a buildin with the title of a deeenomination on er, thet writin over the der really messes thins up. In a word, yer screwed. If it says "Billy Bob's Non-denominatinoal Bible Church" over the der thin yer just fine and the Holy Spirit.s gunna flow. That is, less you start listenin to Billy Bob the preacher man. You better shut him out. Take a nap while he's talkin. Or better yit just sit there and read yer Bibull. Better yit. Stayit home and don't go to no Church and just read yer bible and ya cain't go wrong.

Blessins

 

[thessalonian]

And who decides whether one's interpretation contradicts another scripture or not, since everyone around here feels their interpretation is correct and doesn't contradict the rest of scripture?

That's easy. Yer right and tother guy isn wrong. Lest a course yer tother guy. Then yer wrong. : It's the one thet's right thet's right. Tother one's wrong.

Blessins.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

And how do we know whether the Holy Spirit is interpreting scripture for someone or whether they are leaning on their own understanding? :-?

The Holy Spirit will never lie, nor will His interpretation of scripture contradict other scripture. A man's interpretation can be influenced by his fleshly desires, and if so then the entire scripture will manifest the mistakes

And who decides whether one's interpretation contradicts another scripture or not, since everyone around here feels their interpretation is correct and doesn't contradict the rest of scripture?

I find it interesting how Solo says that "a man's interpretation can be influenced by fleshly desires" yet his understanding is not so fallible. He must, therefore, not be a man, that is to say, he must be a god or ubermensch.

Which leads me to my next point, and that is that I do not "feel (my) interpretation is correct." Rather, I believe the interpretation of the Church- which is not "a man" either- is a better interpretation than my own.

So who decides whose interpretation is correct? That's a question that has a number of different answers, as you have alluded to. It would seem self-evident that the answer to that question should begin with "we " rather than "I."

 

[Solo]

Whether the gospel is preached from the pulpit, taught in a classroom, or revealed in one's personal study of the Bible, the Holy Spirit teaches those that have his indwelling presence. Those that do not have the Holy Spirit can not know this relationship, nor can they know the workings of the Holy Spirit within a believer. Those who are born again learn in the beginning the basic doctrines as babes in Christ Jesus and as they excercise their beliefs and mature in their spiritual growth, they learn deeper and meatier doctrines of Christianity.

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Whether the gospel is preached from the pulpit, taught in a classroom, or revealed in one's personal study of the Bible, the Holy Spirit teaches those that have his indwelling presence. Those that do not have the Holy Spirit can not know this relationship, nor can they know the workings of the Holy Spirit within a believer. Those who are born again learn in the beginning the basic doctrines as babes in Christ Jesus and as they excercise their beliefs and mature in their spiritual growth, they learn deeper and meatier doctrines of Christianity

Yes - and Catholics, Orthodox, or any who subscribe to a different church than you will claim they have the true teaching of the Spirit. So how do we know YOU do and these others don't? Please provide evidence that is not totally subjective.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Whether the gospel is preached from the pulpit, taught in a classroom, or revealed in one's personal study of the Bible, the Holy Spirit teaches those that have his indwelling presence. Those that do not have the Holy Spirit can not know this relationship, nor can they know the workings of the Holy Spirit within a believer. Those who are born again learn in the beginning the basic doctrines as babes in Christ Jesus and as they excercise their beliefs and mature in their spiritual growth, they learn deeper and meatier doctrines of Christianity.

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:14

So, essentially, by your reckoning, anyone who disagrees with you has not been born of God. Well, that's straightforward enough, and I appreciate your candor.