Why not call Mary the mother of God and Queen of heaven

[Orthodoxy]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Mary present at her birth.

Mary present at her betrothal.

Mary present at the Annuciation.

Mary present at the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mary present raising Jesus Christ.

Mary present at the Cana wedding, His first miracle.

Mary present at many teachings and followed behind him with other women throughout His ministry.

Mary present at the trial.

Mary present at the beatings.

Mary present at the crucifiction.

Mary present at the Resurrection.

Mary present at the Ascention.

Mary present at Pentacost.

Mary present at her death.

Mary is not mentioned in the bible? Mary had no part in any of christian history worthy of mention? Just another woman?

What kind of shallowness is trying to pass itself off as christianity?

The Church does not care what you believe the Church believes. The Church knows what it believes and does not need a "21st century man" to define the Church. Fact is man is to humble and submit himself to the Church not TRY in a protest and rebellion to force the Church to submit and humble itself to him. Did you ever entertain the thought that the Church is greater and bigger than YOU? The audacity!

Orthodoxy

 

[Solo]

I believe that the reason that Mary isn't given much press in the Bible is that God knew that some screwballs would line her out to be worshipped by a bunch of screwballs somewhere on the planet earth. The truth is that she was just a women of faith that God used to bring about his plan of salvation for the entire world.

Mary present at her birth.

Mary present at her betrothal.

Mary present at the Annuciation.

Mary present at the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Mary present raising Jesus Christ.

Mary present at the Cana wedding, His first miracle.

Mary present at many teachings and followed behind him with other women throughout His ministry.

Mary present at the trial.

Mary present at the beatings.

Mary present at the crucifiction.

Mary present at the Resurrection.

Mary present at the Ascention.

Mary present at Pentacost.

Mary present at her death.

Mary is not mentioned in the bible? Mary had no part in any of christian history worthy of mention? Just another woman?

What kind of shallowness is trying to pass itself off as christianity?

The Church does not care what you believe the Church believes. The Church knows what it believes and does not need a "21st century man" to define the Church. Fact is man is to humble and submit himself to the Church not TRY in a protest and rebellion to force the Church to submit and humble itself to him. Did you ever entertain the thought that the Church is greater and bigger than YOU? The audacity!

Orthodoxy

The Church is much bigger than me; the body of Christ. The RCC and any other man-made political/religious institution that propagates the dogma of satan is not bigger than me. You see the gates of hell will not prevail against one single, solitary member of the body of Christ. It will not and cannot prevail against me. He who is within me is more powerful than he who is in the world.
God is so much bigger than the ridiculous religious systems invented by man and the enemy.

 

[thessalonian]

The Church is much bigger than me; the body of Christ.

Are you the body of Christ? Or is the Church the body of Christ? Your wording is ambiguous.

The RCC and any other man-made political/religious institution that propagates the dogma of satan is not bigger than me. You see the gates of hell will not prevail against one single, solitary member of the body of Christ.

We've been through this before. "Fallen from grace" in Galatians means exactly that. "you will be saved IF" in 1 cor 15:2 is a conditional and Paul is preaching it to Christians already on the path.

It will not and cannot prevail against me. He who is within me is more powerful than he who is in the world.

The gates of hell are promised not to prevail agaist the whole Church but it can prevail against individuals who like the Galations FALL in to error. You are simply wrong.

God is so much bigger than the ridiculous religious systems invented by man and the enemy.

All is ridiculous in your mind but what you believe which we have been told is 100% infallibly correct. I am afraid for you in your arrogance and your pride. But there is truth mixed with the error of your statement. That is satans way of course, to mix truth and error, because outright lies he knows are much too simple for men to detect. The Catholic Church does not deny a spiritual component to the Church that is bigger than the formal bounds of the Church. Some may be joined who do not willfully reject it. However your statement denies the formal institution that Christ created with leaders and goverance and unity that is visible. A light on a hill for all to see. This is no more plain than in Matt 18.


15: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother.
16: But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses.
17: If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
18: Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Now do tell how two spiritual Christians, one who is baptist and another who is lutheran are going to apply this verse if the baptist wrongs the lutheran or vice versa. Will the Baptist agree to go to the Lutheran or vice versa? It makes Christ's words nonsense. Did Christ not know that the Church would divide? Absolutely he did. Therefore this formula for resolving conflict in THE CHURCH proves that there are not Churches and that there is a visible organized CHURCH. Or the words of the savior himself, the God of the universe are nonsense.

Blessings

 

[Orthodoxy]

Solo,

The Church is much bigger than me; the body of Christ. The RCC and any other man-made political/religious institution that propagates the dogma of satan is not bigger than me. You see the gates of hell will not prevail against one single, solitary member of the body of Christ. It will not and cannot prevail against me. He who is within me is more powerful than he who is in the world.
God is so much bigger than the ridiculous religious systems invented by man and the enemy.

My point of this post was to show mary is all through the bible, yes even OT prophesies about her, ie a vigin will have a child in Isaiah. There are many ot prophesies about Mary the heterodox ignore. Why did you ignore my direct questions and go directly into a diatribe about how you think any "organism" called "the Church" is man made? Save your romaphobia please yer talking to an Orthodox Christian not a roman catholic.

It would appear that you believe since you self declare you are a member of "the Church" that makes you "the Church" personally. You cannot be more wrong.

Think of it this way:

You have a bat, a ball, and glove. You have a book of rules. You have a hat that says "Yankees" on it. You have a shirt that says "Yankees" on it. You know all the rules and exactly how to play the game. Does this make you a "Yankee"? If you "believe" hard enough does that make you a "Yankee"? NO. To be a Yankee you would need to try out, be a catechumen. It would be a try out period, see if the "Yankee Family" liked you and you liked the "Yankee Family".

The Church is much the same way. One cannot self declare their own "christian faith".

The bible is very clear on the definition and identity of the "body of Christ" "the Church".

First: 1 Corinthians 12:12:14 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many.

The Church is One. The Church has One Mind and holds fast to the One Faith delievered by the saints. The Church is not "one member" but many. You cannot be a christian demanding you personally are the Church because the Church is many members with one mind, one heart, one judgement, one confession, one as the Father and Son are "One".

Second: 1 Timothy 3:15 that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"

Not only is "the Church" the "pillar and ground of truth" because "the Church" is Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is truth. But this verse is Paul telling Timothy "how to conduct himself" in "the Church". Now why would Paul say this to Timothy if Timothy personally was "a Church". How can Timothy conduct himself in himself? Or conduct himself in "another" church such as yours or any "other" Church?

It would appear "the Church" is seen as a community of believers with all things in common (Acts 2:44, Acts 4:32) perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

This is hardly you with your personal opines and remarks that have never been taught by the unfailing Church. Tell me then if Jesus's Church has not failed and the gates of hades has not prevailed against it would it not be very old and look nearly the same as in 34 ad? Matthew 13:52

Thirdly: Jesus says in Matthew 21:13, Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46 , “My house shall be called the house of PRAYER; but ye have made it a den of thieves.â€Â

The Church stands in reverent prayer and worship (Proverbs 15:8; the prayer of the upright is his delight) unceasingly (Prayer without ceasing; 1 Thessalonians 5:17) covering the whole earth with His Glory. The Church, the house of God, is a place of prayer. If one wants to find the "house of God", the Church on the earth, one needs to seek out the community of believers that prays without ceasing worldwide. The protesting traditions of man would have us think that going to a warehouse setting with 5000 people, a Christian rock and roll band with dancers getting together to hear a man preach, bible study and then give your money is "the Church". Or sitting at home ignoring the "gathering of the brethren" is the Church. Maybe the golf course is "the Church" also, eh? The Church is NOT an entertainment center for new and improved programs made up by men and money changers. The personalized individual “feel good†church of the moneychangers is NOT the Church Jesus Built. The Church Jesus built is a house of prayer.

On Mount Athos in Greece the Orthodox Christian monks pray 24/7 for the salvation of the whole world without ceasing. Across the globe at any one time there is an orthodox christian praying for the salvation of the world and all mankind. The individual orthodox christian prays without ceasing in this prayer "Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us".

My point?

"The Church" is an "US" not an "I". "The Church is "WE" not "ME".

Membership obviously means something to the heterdox but they expect to just "say they are yankees" and they are yankees!

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodoxy]

BradtheImpaler,

What can we glean from this, if anything?

That the heterodox faith is a fraud and the chaos proves it.

That religious experience is subjective in nature, and that there's something really wrong when millions claim the same God, and the same indwelling Spirit, but are divided into hundreds (thousands?) of sects - especially when the founder of this religion prayed that his followers would be "one" (and Jesus has to always get his prayers answered)

You have never experianced the Orthodox faith so you speak out of ignorance. The Holy Orthodox Church is One.

If all this is evidence of anything, might it suggest that Christianity, itself, is not true? :o

Jesus Christ historically is "true". He existed. The question then becaomes was He honest in His claims? I believe, Yes. Thus I know He existed and His claims are true. So the issue is where and what is this "Church" He claims to be building? Certainly the chaos and confusion of just the identity of Jesus Christ much less the identity of His Church in the heterodox world proves this "community of believers" is "another Jesus" and not the one who prayed this prayer you state as God incarnate.

I suggest the heterodox investigate the Orthodox Church without the searing hatered for the Roman Catholics. The brother's of Joseph must take the veil off.

Orthodoxy

 

[BradtheImpaler]

What can we glean from this, if anything?

That the heterodox faith is a fraud and the chaos proves it

And that your religious experience is no more convincing than theirs.

That religious experience is subjective in nature, and that there's something really wrong when millions claim the same God, and the same indwelling Spirit, but are divided into hundreds (thousands?) of sects - especially when the founder of this religion prayed that his followers would be "one" (and Jesus has to always get his prayers answered)

You have never experianced the Orthodox faith so you speak out of ignorance

You have never experienced Islam - do you need to? I am not impressed with icons, chalices, rosary beads, incense, et. al. These props are for the easily entertained. Your priests wave their hands over water and turn it into "Holy water". In actuality, they turn water into water. How simple minded does one have to be to believe an omnipotent God has a hand in things like this? :roll:

Let them turn water into wine. Until then, you're just another religious ranter with nothing to back up your claims. Put up or shut up.

The Holy Orthodox Church is One

One what? Just another organization claiming to be the true church.

If all this is evidence of anything, might it suggest that Christianity, itself, is not true? :o

Jesus Christ historically is "true". He existed

Pardon, but doesn't it take faith to believe that? And why would it take faith? (perhaps because it's not provable?)

The question then becaomes was He honest in His claims?

There's another question that would come before that, namely, did he really say what the NT says he did, or did the original writers and/or later scribes put their own words in his mouth? (let's see, first you must prove he existed, then that he really said what it says he did, to even get to the proposition of whether he was honest in his claims. It's wearin' mighty thin...)

I believe, Yes. Thus I know He existed and His claims are true

That's priceless, Orthodoxy. You believe, therefore you know he existed and his claims are true. The followers of Krishna "know he existed and his claims are true" also. What does their faith prove? It proves they believe. Big deal.

So the issue is where and what is this "Church" He claims to be building? Certainly the chaos and confusion of just the identity of Jesus Christ much less the identity of His Church in the heterodox world proves this "community of believers" is "another Jesus" and not the one who prayed this prayer you state as God incarnate.

I suggest the heterodox investigate the Orthodox Church without the searing hatered for the Roman Catholics. The brother's of Joseph must take the veil off.

Your endless whining about the "heterodox" is really getting old. There's nothing to seperate you from the hereodox. Your people are no better than them (on average), you have no more spiritual power than them, you have no more compassion than them. All you have is different doctrines (oh yes, and the head of John the Baptist :roll

 

[Orthodoxy]

What can we glean from this, if anything?

That the heterodox faith is a fraud and the chaos proves it

And that your religious experience is no more convincing than theirs.

No that the historical facts of the history and work of the Holy Spirit in "the Church" over rules anyones personal opine or made up jesus from reading a book.

That religious experience is subjective in nature, and that there's something really wrong when millions claim the same God, and the same indwelling Spirit, but are divided into hundreds (thousands?) of sects - especially when the founder of this religion prayed that his followers would be "one" (and Jesus has to always get his prayers answered)

[quote:89683]You have never experianced the Orthodox faith so you speak out of ignorance

You have never experienced Islam - do you need to?

Yes, they cursed me.

[quote:89683]I am not impressed with icons, chalices, rosary beads, incense, et. al. These props are for the easily entertained. Your priests wave their hands over water and turn it into "Holy water". In actuality, they turn water into water. How simple minded does one have to be to believe an omnipotent God has a hand in things like this? :roll:

Let them turn water into wine. Until then, you're just another religious ranter with nothing to back up your claims. Put up or shut up.[/quote:89683]

We do greater than these if you ever bothered to investigate the Orthodox faith. Fact is I know a man "raised from the dead" who has MS merely by recieving the Sacrements of His Holy Body and Blood. I am a witness to this along with hundreds of others in and out of our parish. What his address? Email him and ask if you have the guts to eat crow Timothy.Tregarthen@UCCS.edu

[quote:89683]The Holy Orthodox Church is One

One what? Just another organization claiming to be the true church. [/quote:89683]

Historical fact you ignore out of arrgance and ignorance. History be darned!

If all this is evidence of anything, might it suggest that Christianity, itself, is not true? :o

[quote:89683]Jesus Christ historically is "true". He existed

Pardon, but doesn't it take faith to believe that? And why would it take faith? (perhaps because it's not provable?)[/quote:89683]

Right, even heathen protestants know Jesus lived "historically" but hey who cares about Historical facts anyway eh? without History a Christian has no foundation for his faith.

[quote:89683]The question then becaomes was He honest in His claims?

There's another question that would come before that, namely, did he really say what the NT says he did, or did the original writers and/or later scribes put their own words in his mouth? (let's see, first you must prove he existed, then that he really said what it says he did, to even get to the proposition of whether he was honest in his claims. It's wearin' mighty thin...) [/quote:89683]

I see. So how can anyone claim the bible is "infallible and the final authority" if others put words in Jesus's mouth. What is thin is the veneer the heterodox put up as "christianity".

[quote:89683]I believe, Yes. Thus I know He existed and His claims are true

That's priceless, Orthodoxy. You believe, therefore you know he existed and his claims are true. The followers of Krishna "know he existed and his claims are true" also. What does their faith prove? It proves they believe. Big deal.[/quote:89683]

There you have it folks "believe" is meaningless or nebulas at best. I believe Jesus Christ is a historical figure and His claims are true. I have read the claims of "The followers of Krishna " and find them untrue.

So the issue is where and what is this "Church" He claims to be building? Certainly the chaos and confusion of just the identity of Jesus Christ much less the identity of His Church in the heterodox world proves this "community of believers" is "another Jesus" and not the one who prayed this prayer you state as God incarnate.

I suggest the heterodox investigate the Orthodox Church without the searing hatered for the Roman Catholics. The brother's of Joseph must take the veil off.

Your endless whining about the "heterodox" is really getting old. There's nothing to seperate you from the hereodox. Your people are no better than them (on average), you have no more spiritual power than them, you have no more compassion than them. All you have is different doctrines (oh yes, and the head of John the Baptist :roll

[/quote:89683]

More ignorant tripe and personal attacks from the heathen. At least you admit the Doctrines of the Holy Orthodox Church differ from the doctrines of the heterodox 'christian" faith. A start.

Orthodoxy

 

[BradtheImpaler]

No that the historical facts of the history and work of the Holy Spirit in "the Church" over rules anyones personal opine or made up jesus from reading a book

Please give examples.

That religious experience is subjective in nature, and that there's something really wrong when millions claim the same God, and the same indwelling Spirit, but are divided into hundreds (thousands?) of sects - especially when the founder of this religion prayed that his followers would be "one" (and Jesus has to always get his prayers answered)

You have never experianced the Orthodox faith so you speak out of ignorance

You have never experienced Islam - do you need to?

Yes, they cursed me

Have you ever experienced being a member of the Islamic faith, is what I meant. (But now that you mention it, have you not "cursed" Protestants by referring to them as "lost"?)

Let them turn water into wine. Until then, you're just another religious ranter with nothing to back up your claims. Put up or shut up.

We do greater than these if you ever bothered to investigate the Orthodox faith. Fact is I know a man "raised from the dead" who has MS merely by recieving the Sacrements of His Holy Body and Blood. I am a witness to this along with hundreds of others in and out of our parish. What his address? Email him and ask if you have the guts to eat crow Timothy.Tregarthen@UCCS.edu

How long was he dead?

The Holy Orthodox Church is One

One what? Just another organization claiming to be the true church.

Historical fact you ignore out of arrgance and ignorance. History be darned!

Historical farce you contend out of arrogance and ignorance.

"For 50 years after St. Paul's life, a curtain hangs over the church, through which we vainly strive to look; and when it at last rises, about 120 AD with the writings of the earliest Church Fathers we find a church in many aspects very different from that in the days of St. Peter and St. Paul" (Jesse Hurlbut, "Story of the Christian Church", pg. 41)

If all this is evidence of anything, might it suggest that Christianity, itself, is not true? :o

Right, even heathen protestants know Jesus lived "historically" but hey who cares about Historical facts anyway eh? Without History a Christian has no foundation for his faith

So you assume these things are historically true because if they are not, you have no basis for your faith?

The question then becaomes was He honest in His claims?

There's another question that would come before that, namely, did he really say what the NT says he did, or did the original writers and/or later scribes put their own words in his mouth? (let's see, first you must prove he existed, then that he really said what it says he did, to even get to the proposition of whether he was honest in his claims. It's wearin' mighty thin...)

I see. So how can anyone claim the bible is "infallible and the final authority" if others put words in Jesus's mouth. What is thin is the veneer the heterodox put up as "christianity"

Both if you are appealing to something you consider "infallible", and neither of you can prove it.

I believe, Yes. Thus I know He existed and His claims are true

That's priceless, Orthodoxy. You believe, therefore you know he existed and his claims are true. The followers of Krishna "know he existed and his claims are true" also. What does their faith prove? It proves they believe. Big deal.

There you have it folks "believe" is meaningless or nebulas at best. I believe Jesus Christ is a historical figure and His claims are true. I have read the claims of "The followers of Krishna " and find them untrue

How did you find them untrue?

So the issue is where and what is this "Church" He claims to be building? Certainly the chaos and confusion of just the identity of Jesus Christ much less the identity of His Church in the heterodox world proves this "community of believers" is "another Jesus" and not the one who prayed this prayer you state as God incarnate.

I suggest the heterodox investigate the Orthodox Church without the searing hatered for the Roman Catholics. The brother's of Joseph must take the veil off.

]Your endless whining about the "heterodox" is really getting old. There's nothing to seperate you from the hereodox. Your people are no better than them (on average), you have no more spiritual power than them, you have no more compassion than them. All you have is different doctrines (oh yes, and the head of John the Baptist :roll

More ignorant tripe and personal attacks from the heathen. At least you admit the Doctrines of the Holy Orthodox Church differ from the doctrines of the heterodox 'christian" faith. A start

You are sooo delightfully condescending : Are all your brethren like that also? At least James keeps it under wraps to some extent. (I always imagine him cringing when he reads some of your posts)

What I'd like to get to the bottom of is why you feel such a snooty attitude on your part is warrented? What is so special about you, as a person, that makes the "heterodox" and the "heathen" pale by comparison?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

No that the historical facts of the history and work of the Holy Spirit in "the Church" over rules anyones personal opine or made up jesus from reading a book

Please give examples.

That religious experience is subjective in nature, and that there's something really wrong when millions claim the same God, and the same indwelling Spirit, but are divided into hundreds (thousands?) of sects - especially when the founder of this religion prayed that his followers would be "one" (and Jesus has to always get his prayers answered)

[quote:07d90]You have never experianced the Orthodox faith so you speak out of ignorance

You have never experienced Islam - do you need to?

Yes, they cursed me

Have you ever experienced being a member of the Islamic faith, is what I meant. (But now that you mention it, have you not "cursed" Protestants by referring to them as "lost"?)

Let them turn water into wine. Until then, you're just another religious ranter with nothing to back up your claims. Put up or shut up.

We do greater than these if you ever bothered to investigate the Orthodox faith. Fact is I know a man "raised from the dead" who has MS merely by recieving the Sacrements of His Holy Body and Blood. I am a witness to this along with hundreds of others in and out of our parish. What his address? Email him and ask if you have the guts to eat crow Timothy.Tregarthen@UCCS.edu

How long was he dead?

The Holy Orthodox Church is One

One what? Just another organization claiming to be the true church.

Historical fact you ignore out of arrgance and ignorance. History be darned!

Historical farce you contend out of arrogance and ignorance.

"For 50 years after St. Paul's life, a curtain hangs over the church, through which we vainly strive to look; and when it at last rises, about 120 AD with the writings of the earliest Church Fathers we find a church in many aspects very different from that in the days of St. Peter and St. Paul" (Jesse Hurlbut, "Story of the Christian Church", pg. 41)

If all this is evidence of anything, might it suggest that Christianity, itself, is not true? :o

Right, even heathen protestants know Jesus lived "historically" but hey who cares about Historical facts anyway eh? Without History a Christian has no foundation for his faith

So you assume these things are historically true because if they are not, you have no basis for your faith?

The question then becaomes was He honest in His claims?

There's another question that would come before that, namely, did he really say what the NT says he did, or did the original writers and/or later scribes put their own words in his mouth? (let's see, first you must prove he existed, then that he really said what it says he did, to even get to the proposition of whether he was honest in his claims. It's wearin' mighty thin...)

I see. So how can anyone claim the bible is "infallible and the final authority" if others put words in Jesus's mouth. What is thin is the veneer the heterodox put up as "christianity"

Both of you are appealing to something you consider "infallible", and neither of you can prove it.

I believe, Yes. Thus I know He existed and His claims are true

That's priceless, Orthodoxy. You believe, therefore you know he existed and his claims are true. The followers of Krishna "know he existed and his claims are true" also. What does their faith prove? It proves they believe. Big deal.

There you have it folks "believe" is meaningless or nebulas at best. I believe Jesus Christ is a historical figure and His claims are true. I have read the claims of "The followers of Krishna " and find them untrue

How did you find them untrue?

So the issue is where and what is this "Church" He claims to be building? Certainly the chaos and confusion of just the identity of Jesus Christ much less the identity of His Church in the heterodox world proves this "community of believers" is "another Jesus" and not the one who prayed this prayer you state as God incarnate.

I suggest the heterodox investigate the Orthodox Church without the searing hatered for the Roman Catholics. The brother's of Joseph must take the veil off.

]Your endless whining about the "heterodox" is really getting old. There's nothing to seperate you from the hereodox. Your people are no better than them (on average), you have no more spiritual power than them, you have no more compassion than them. All you have is different doctrines (oh yes, and the head of John the Baptist :roll

More ignorant tripe and personal attacks from the heathen. At least you admit the Doctrines of the Holy Orthodox Church differ from the doctrines of the heterodox 'christian" faith. A start

You are sooo delightfully condescending : Are all your brethren like that also? At least James keeps it under wraps to some extent. (I always imagine him cringing when he reads some of your posts)

What I'd like to get to the bottom of is why you feel such a snooty attitude on your part is warrented? What is so special about you, as a person, that makes the "heterodox" and the "heathen" pale by comparison?[/quote:07d90]

 

[Orthodoxy]

No that the historical facts of the history and work of the Holy Spirit in "the Church" over rules anyones personal opine or made up jesus from reading a book

Please give examples.

Martyrs, The Canon of Scripture, the Nicene Creed, the 7 ecumenical councils, the fact the Orthodox Church has not been over come by hades, etc.

[quote:de7bc]Have you ever experienced being a member of the Islamic faith, is what I meant. (But now that you mention it, have you not "cursed" Protestants by referring to them as "lost"?)

I do not need to experiance a murderous religion to understand its murderous beliefs. But no I have never been an islamofacist. I dont curse the protestants. I ask them questions and they curse themselves in ignorance and evasiveness.

How long was he dead?

As Jesus stated in the story of Lazarus " they would not believe even if one was risen from the dead". And so it is.


Historical farce you contend out of arrogance and ignorance.

Then all history is a farce. 911 never happened nor did the holocaust, right?

So you assume these things are historically true because if they are not, you have no basis for your faith?

I agree. If the history of the Christian Church is false and Jesus Christ never existed then Christianity is doomed and I am a fool.

Both if you are appealing to something you consider "infallible", and neither of you can prove it.

What is infallible? The bible? when did I declare the bible or the pope infallible? What are you claiming I have stated was infallible?

How did you find them untrue?

You wish me to compare this religion to the Christian faith? That would require a different thread.

You are sooo delightfully condescending : Are all your brethren like that also? At least James keeps it under wraps to some extent. (I always imagine him cringing when he reads some of your posts)

What is delightful is the mind reading talents of the heathen. I know James crings at some of my remarks however I cring at some of his. I am not concerned about Jame's opinion of me but it is good to see you are. Condesending remarks seem to be a trade mark of this forum. I am just keeping up with the "jones". It would seem many on this forum can dish it out but they cannot take it. Hypocrasy? You bet.

What I'd like to get to the bottom of is why you feel such a snooty attitude on your part is warrented? What is so special about you, as a person, that makes the "heterodox" and the "heathen" pale by comparison?

[/quote:de7bc]

If I ever could get a straight answer to a question on this forum I would be suprised. Fact is the heterodox are very evasive and coy, something that drives me batty, call it snooty if you will. Jesus said to His followers "make your yes's yes and no's no anything beyond that is from the evil one" so I ask direct questions and get answers from the evil one (heterodox). When that happens I know whom it is I speak with. I am not special I just like honest answers to honest questions.

Orthodoxy

 

[Orthodox Christian]

What is delightful is the mind reading talents of the heathen. I know James crings at some of my remarks however I cring at some of his. I am not concerned about Jame's opinion of me but it is good to see you are.

But I thought we Orthodox didn't think for ourselves, and were like a hive or the Borg. :

Only at an Orthodox Church parking lot will you see a "support our president" bumper sticker alongside a "dump Bush" or "who would Jesus bomb" sticker. Inside are these two brothers sharing one cup.

I probably, in many ways, represent a liberal view unto ecumenical matters (but conservative on matters of liturgy and ecclesiastical attire). I sometimes cringe when my brothers speak their minds, but I also rejoice, for it is the fulness of the Church, not one man's opinion for or against that makes up the living faith of the Church.

As for condescension- I think that any, and I mean ANY- declaration of truth in contemporary America is seen as judgemental and condescending. ...unless that 'truth' is that there is no Truth.

May God have mercy on us, and memory eternal to the victims of 9/11 on the anniversary of their falling asleep. May God pardon their sins and give them rest.

 

[Orthodoxy]

What is delightful is the mind reading talents of the heathen. I know James crings at some of my remarks however I cring at some of his. I am not concerned about Jame's opinion of me but it is good to see you are.

But I thought we Orthodox didn't think for ourselves, and were like a hive or the Borg. :

To think a fruit has a brain. Gasp! My dear friend, I know we dont always agree on tactics and to be sure I am a bit bitter when it comes to the heathen protestants and rebel romans. I was lied to for 33 years in the protestant faith and it will be a few minutes before I get over it. I can only pray God will have mercy on me for this bitter taste that remains in my mouth.

Also my brother, forgive me if I have offended the orthodox Church and orthodox people. I will continue to attempt to restrain my frustration with ingnorant and arrogant people. Forgive me.

[quote:eeba4]Only at an Orthodox Church parking lot will you see a "support our president" bumper sticker alongside a "dump Bush" or "who would Jesus bomb" sticker. Inside are these two brothers sharing one cup.

I probably, in many ways, represent a liberal view unto ecumenical matters (but conservative on matters of liturgy and ecclesiastical attire). I sometimes cringe when my brothers speak their minds, but I also rejoice, for it is the fulness of the Church, not one man's opinion for or against that makes up the living faith of the Church.

Amen. I know your mind because you have the "mind of Christ" that is only found in His Church. This is why we are brothers.

As for condescension- I think that any, and I mean ANY- declaration of truth in contemporary America is seen as judgemental and condescending. ...unless that 'truth' is that there is no Truth.

Each man his own truth. It is the american way.

May God have mercy on us, and memory eternal to the victims of 9/11 on the anniversary of their falling asleep. May God pardon their sins and give them rest.

[/quote:eeba4]

Memory Eternal!

Your unworthy servant,

Kyril

 

[Henry]

I have been very bussy with my Chaplain internship and have not been here in awhile, actually I am in the hospital right now but I wanted a break and so I dropped in.

I am surprised, but not really at the amount of conversation this topic spured on. Seems that we are all so very quick to deffend our churched doctrines.

What I want to touch base is just two things.

The bible does not mention a church building, and someone here said that it does not mention it for or against. I would argu that the teaching of the New Testiment is that buildings are not what God was looking for.

First the very word that Jesus used totally excludes a building, for the greek to use the word that Jesus used refering to a building would have been silly. Certainly there is not arguement that through out the NT the church is the people, that argument is made so clear in many places.

The idea that the church building is from Constinitine.

 

[thessalonian]

I have been very bussy with my Chaplain internship and have not been here in awhile, actually I am in the hospital right now but I wanted a break and so I dropped in.

I am surprised, but not really at the amount of conversation this topic spured on. Seems that we are all so very quick to deffend our churched doctrines.

What I want to touch base is just two things.

The bible does not mention a church building, and someone here said that it does not mention it for or against. I would argu that the teaching of the New Testiment is that buildings are not what God was looking for.

First the very word that Jesus used totally excludes a building, for the greek to use the word that Jesus used refering to a building would have been silly. Certainly there is not arguement that through out the NT the church is the people, that argument is made so clear in many places.

The idea that the church building is from Constinitine.

Who says that the concept of Church that Jesus talks about is a building in this thread? I must have missed that post. Point me to it please.

Perhaps you could also verify for me with historical quotes where Constantine said the Church is a building and where some group agreed with him and said "the Church is a building".

Thanks.

 

[Henry]

Thessalonian

People call buidlings churches all the time, you ask what church do you go to and they say the one on such a and such street.

The early church did not have a buidling that was designated as the church, they merely met in homes, and that was the way it was untill constintine instatuntionalized it.

Look, if you "go to church" then you are not doing what the early church did, they did not go to what they WHERE. And we can not GO to what are ARE.

Now, people will say they understand that we are the church, but yet when asked they still refere to a pile of decorated bricks.

As far as I am concerned they could tear them all down and we would be much better off.

As one writer said "It would have been far better that we never sat in a pew, there is so much to unlearn"

And what makes it even worse is that the church building is not even a christian idea, it is totally pagan.

 

[Henry]

Thessalonian

People call buidlings churches all the time, you ask what church do you go to and they say the one on such a and such street.

The early church did not have a buidling that was designated as the church, they merely met in homes, and that was the way it was untill constintine instatuntionalized it.

Look, if you "go to church" then you are not doing what the early church did, they did not go to what they WHERE. And we can not GO to what are ARE.

Now, people will say they understand that we are the church, but yet when asked they still refere to a pile of decorated bricks.

As far as I am concerned they could tear them all down and we would be much better off.

As one writer said "It would have been far better that we never sat in a pew, there is so much to unlearn"

And what makes it even worse is that the church building is not even a christian idea, it is totally pagan.

 

[thessalonian]

And what makes it even worse is that the church building is not even a christian idea, it is totally pagan.

Having a church building is pagan? What do you think a synagoge is? So most protestants are practicing paganism by worshipping in buildings? It's not surprizing that the Early Church met in homes. They were small groups here and there. Buildings did not go up overnight as they do here. I tell you such interprutations as worshipping in a building is pagan are just nutz and cause me to shake my head in disbelief when men assert themselves over scripture and come up with such nonsense. Sorry, I can't call it anything else.

God bless

 

[Heidi]

Why not call Mary the mother of God and Queen of heaven?

Why not, I mean she was the mother of Jesus and he is God, so logically she is the mother of God and therefore the Queen of heaven right?

Well, I do not believe that and would not see mary in such a lofty way, never the less they use the same circular arguments and reasoning that prodestants do for pastors, buildings and tithes.

All these things are equally as unbiblical as calling mary the queen of Heaven. Yet here we are...

Funny to me that when I was a prodestant I though how different we are from the catholics but now that I have joined the biblical church, I see that they are more alike then different.

The mask be different but the game is the same, control and money.

The bible does not teach a pastor, the tithe is not for today and church building is a mockery to God and NO ONE can show these to be biblical at all.

We do not call Mary the mother of God because we do not give created things the credit for the creator's work. And neither did Christ.

 

[thessalonian]

Heidi,

Mary is the creators work. God did great things for HER! He called her "mother of my Lord" through elizabeth. All contradictiosn to your words. Speaking of Mary as the Mother of God gives him credit for bringing the full wonder of the incarnation about. God was born of a woman. Not a body separate from God. She carried him in her womb for 9 months. He was God during that time. She gave birth to him. He was God at that moment as well. And he grew in wisdom and grace under her care. Sounds like a mother to me. This has nothing to do with God being created by Mary if that is what you are thinking.

 

[Henry]

Heidi

I was not really asking why we do not call Mary the mother of God, I know that it is totally not biblical and is really not a good thing to do.

The whole thing is an argument of mans logic, out side the bible. Saying she gave birth to Jesus and Jesus is God and so she is the mother of God.

I used that only to bring up the point that while we may call out some on things like that, we are just as guilty.

The church building the Sr.pastor the tithe and all are the same sorts of things, they are not found in the bible but what we do is take some verses and then use them as part of a circular argument to justify them.

So, if we do that then why not call Mary the mother of God or better yet why are we bothered is another does? since we are just as guilty as they for doing the same thing with the building and the pastor and the tithe.

LOL the funny part is that Mary as the mother of God actually has more biblical backing, then those things. Wrong yes, but there more verses to back it the the idea of a pastor lead church in a building.