Why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented?

[jasoncran]

sorry that is what is called soul sleep. that kinda isn't accepted in most churches. only annihalaitonist accept that. ie the Jehovah's witness accept that.

http://www.bibleriches.org/2002/apol/soulsleep.html

Jasoncran,

You've committed some logical fallacies here..

1. You appealed to the fact that it isn't accepted in most Churches... this does not confirm or deny it's truthfulness and is an appeal to popularity... thus fallacious.
2. You sought to diminish the position of "annihilationism" by appealing to a group that believes in a form somewhat related to it.. Jehovah Witnesses, which is a Genetic fallacy. Jehovah Witnesses' believing or not believing a doctrine does not again confirm or deny a teachings truthfulness that must be shown through careful exegesis of the related Biblical texts.

Here is another point you might be ignorant of, Martin Luther.. the founder of Protestantism, who began the Reformation... Believed in Soul Sleep. Or William Tyndale who is responsible for the KJV translation. Not to mention it is held by one of the most prestigious modern Biblical scholars, N.T. Wright.

This view has been believed prior to Christianity and indeed comes from a Second Temple Judaism era understanding of life after death. It wasn't until around 300 BC that the Jews really even began to conceive of a theology of what life after death looked like, all other beliefs about it were rather vague.

I think you should be wary of a kind of theology that simply labels a doctrine and puts it in the category of "that's what cults believe."

Hope this helps,
Servant of Jesus

then what is the resurrection of the unjust to you that believe that way.

the jw don't believe in that. they remained dead.

is that both of your's position. luther? I have issues with him. something about killing jews.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

then what is the resurrection of the unjust to you that believe that way.

the jw don't believe in that. they remained dead.

is that both of your's position. luther? I have issues with him. something about killing jews.

How about this.. ignore everything you ever learned about Jehovah Witness theology when dealing with the posters here, evangelical Conditionalism is EXTREMELY different. We certainly believe (at least I do, and all others I have met) that all will be resurrected to receive Justice. We do not believe that God judges men twice... or punishes them two separate times for their sins. Their is one final judgement, in which all are resurrected for, the just go on to eternal life in the new creation. The unjust are eternally separated from God by being handed over to destruction of both the body and soul in the lake of fire which is the second death.

 

[jasoncran]

that make no sense. raise them up to destroy them when death did just that.

define what hades is?

where does one die. what is the greek concept of hades?

men died and were buried in the sea, they were dead and buried. and or death took them, and no one knows. hades what is it?

 

[jasoncran]

the word used is tartaroo(torment)in another part and destruction is torment to the dead when they don't know any more?

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

rev 14

 

[Guest]

Jesus said man was body and soul. Matthew 10:28. A brain and a heart are organs in the body...they are flesh. What is the difference between a soul and a spirit?

Grappler, that's a really good scripture. very good. The difference between a soul and a spirit is what is in bold, the functions. is your spirit worshiping false gods or the living God..

The Human Spirit

According to the revelation of the Bible and the experience of believers, the human spirit can be said to have three main functions. These three functions are conscience (Rom. 9:1; 8:16), intuition (Mark 2:8), and communion (John 4:24). The conscience is the part of the spirit which distinguishes right from wrong and is not influenced by knowledge stored in the mind; it is rather a spontaneous direct judgment. The intuition is the “knowing†part of the spirit. All true knowledge originates not in the mind, but in the spirit. The revelations of God and the movements of the Holy Spirit are known to the believer through his intuition. A believer must, therefore, take care to heed these two aspects of his spirit: the speaking of his conscience and the teaching of his intuition.

Communion is the third function of the spirit, and is related to the worship of God. The soul is not competent to worship God. According to John 4:24, “God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.â€

The Human Soul

Not only does man possess a spirit which enables him to function in the spiritual realm; he also possesses a soul which is the organ of his self-consciousness. The soul is the seat of the human personality. The ingredients which make us human beings belong to the soul. The intellect, thought, ideals, love, emotion, understanding, decision, choice, and other like qualities are all associated with the soul. The three main functions of the soul are the will (Job 7:15), the mind (Lam. 3:20, RSV), and the emotion (2 Sam. 5:8; Deut. 6:5). The will is the instrument for making decisions and choices. The second function of the soul is the mind, the instrument for thinking. It is in this part of the soul that man reasons and has knowledge (Prov. 2:10). The third function of the soul is the emotion. This is the instrument of likes and dislikes. Through the emotions we are able to express love or hatred, joyfulness, anger, sadness, or happiness. A shortage in this area will render us insensitive. By a careful study of the Bible we cannot help but be impressed that these three primary functions of the personality belong to the soul.

http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/bible-answer-man/appendix/are-soul-spirit-same.html

What a bunch of useless words. So what is the difference between the mind and the conscience?? What about the difference between emotion and communion?? you gave me a bunch words that can mean so many different things. Why can't intuition and the mind be the same thing? Or the will and conscience?? Whoever wrote what you posted obviously hadn't thought this out very much...i will just stick with what Jesus said....man is body and soul....the more you start adding the more confusion grows and then you are stuck looking silly.

Useless words, you silly willy. Notice it says your conscience is not influenced by knowledge stored in the mind. Your mind is influenced, but your conscience isn't. Also, the emotions that you feel when you worship God are from God, the fruits of the spirit. Galatians 5:22. The emotions from God are now a part of you. It is Jesus that now lives in you, and no longer false entities that you follow. Why do you think God wants a born again christian to marry another born again christian?

The mind and intuition are different because of this example, take the smartest math teacher in the world. He can answer any question you have about math, but is he able to tell who is lying to him about the bible? The Holy Spirit is the only one that can discern truth for you, about GOD! If someone questions your faith, are you going to resort to your mind or the Holy Spirit?

Will/Conscience - Knowing right from wrong is different than making decisions and choices. For example, does the person that's making his decision know how to discern between good/evil? I know some atheists who deny sin exists because God doesn't exist, so good/evil don't exist.

You're not looking at your own spirit from God's perspective and his spirit.

 

[Guest]

Jehovah Witness is soooooooooooooooooooo false doctrine.

 

[jasoncran]

they make point. its doubtful that the jw's didn't copy from the others that believe in soul sleep. Charles russel was good at that.

just that today its unusual for any church to preach that stuff. that is why I asked. I know of none. and well my county jokingly and sadly has about 100 churches that seem not to work together. surely one of them will have that doctrine. if so and I encounter them I want to know how common or not this is outside of the cults.

 

[Guest]

that make no sense. raise them up to destroy them when death did just that.

define what hades is?

where does one die. what is the greek concept of hades?

men died and were buried in the sea, they were dead and buried. and or death took them, and no one knows. hades what is it?

No, we will all be raised up for judgement at the judgement throne. heaven and hell are empty right now. so after judgement, the righteous and unrighteous are separated into heaven or hell. if you're not written in the book of life at the judgement throne, your destination will be hell.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

that make no sense. raise them up to destroy them when death did just that.

Let me see if I can spell this out in a way that you can better understand. We don't believe that people are punished or judged in the intermediate state, but receive this judgement on the last day at the judgement seat of Christ. God doesn't judge ethereal or corporeal beings, but he judges humans beings as they were created to be, both body and soul (spirit) as one being. They are then given a punishment that is proportion to their sins, which ultimately is death (Romans 1:32) the second death, as they had died once before in their lives.

He raises them up to perform judgement on a human being, as Justice is due. Nothing here that doesn't make sense.

define what hades is?

Hades needs to be understood as it is in Koine Greek, not Ancient Greek that is primarily influenced by a Hellenistic pagan religion.

Hades is the LXX (Septuagint) translation of the Hebrew word Sheol, and it is only used as describing a intermediate state for the dead in Jesus ministry which was solely to the Jewish people who regularly read the LXX and would have been familiar with this usage of language. Hades.. or Sheol was the realm of the dead in the OT in which both righteous and wicked went to, were all the activities physical and mental ceased and thus Jesus came to rescue his people from death and Hades.

where does one die. what is the greek concept of hades?

Are we to follow the Greek Pagan idea of Hades.. or the Ancient Hebrew idea? You decide.

men died and were buried in the sea, they were dead and buried. and or death took them, and no one knows. hades what is it?

See above.

 

[Guest]

3 Births/3 Deaths
1st birth - mothers womb / 2nd birth - born of Holy Spirit, dead to sin / 3rd birth immortal bodies afterlife in heaven/new earth
1st death - repenting of sin, dead to sin, alive in God, alive in Holy Spirit / 2nd death - heart stops beating / 3rd death - judged and soul sent to hell

 

[Grappler]

Jesus said man was body and soul. Matthew 10:28. A brain and a heart are organs in the body...they are flesh. What is the difference between a soul and a spirit?

Grappler, that's a really good scripture. very good. The difference between a soul and a spirit is what is in bold, the functions. is your spirit worshiping false gods or the living God..

The Human Spirit

According to the revelation of the Bible and the experience of believers, the human spirit can be said to have three main functions. These three functions are conscience (Rom. 9:1; 8:16), intuition (Mark 2:8), and communion (John 4:24). The conscience is the part of the spirit which distinguishes right from wrong and is not influenced by knowledge stored in the mind; it is rather a spontaneous direct judgment. The intuition is the “knowing” part of the spirit. All true knowledge originates not in the mind, but in the spirit. The revelations of God and the movements of the Holy Spirit are known to the believer through his intuition. A believer must, therefore, take care to heed these two aspects of his spirit: the speaking of his conscience and the teaching of his intuition.

Communion is the third function of the spirit, and is related to the worship of God. The soul is not competent to worship God. According to John 4:24, “God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

The Human Soul

Not only does man possess a spirit which enables him to function in the spiritual realm; he also possesses a soul which is the organ of his self-consciousness. The soul is the seat of the human personality. The ingredients which make us human beings belong to the soul. The intellect, thought, ideals, love, emotion, understanding, decision, choice, and other like qualities are all associated with the soul. The three main functions of the soul are the will (Job 7:15), the mind (Lam. 3:20, RSV), and the emotion (2 Sam. 5:8; Deut. 6:5). The will is the instrument for making decisions and choices. The second function of the soul is the mind, the instrument for thinking. It is in this part of the soul that man reasons and has knowledge (Prov. 2:10). The third function of the soul is the emotion. This is the instrument of likes and dislikes. Through the emotions we are able to express love or hatred, joyfulness, anger, sadness, or happiness. A shortage in this area will render us insensitive. By a careful study of the Bible we cannot help but be impressed that these three primary functions of the personality belong to the soul.

http://www.contendingforthefaith.org/responses/bible-answer-man/appendix/are-soul-spirit-same.html

What a bunch of useless words. So what is the difference between the mind and the conscience?? What about the difference between emotion and communion?? you gave me a bunch words that can mean so many different things. Why can't intuition and the mind be the same thing? Or the will and conscience?? Whoever wrote what you posted obviously hadn't thought this out very much...i will just stick with what Jesus said....man is body and soul....the more you start adding the more confusion grows and then you are stuck looking silly.

Useless words, you silly willy. Notice it says your conscience is not influenced by knowledge stored in the mind. Your mind is influenced, but your conscience isn't. Also, the emotions that you feel when you worship God are from God, the fruits of the spirit. Galatians 5:22. The emotions from God are now a part of you. It is Jesus that now lives in you, and no longer false entities that you follow. Why do you think God wants a born again christian to marry another born again christian?

The mind and intuition are different because of this example, take the smartest math teacher in the world. He can answer any question you have about math, but is he able to tell who is lying to him about the bible? The Holy Spirit is the only one that can discern truth for you, about GOD! If someone questions your faith, are you going to resort to your mind or the Holy Spirit?

Will/Conscience - Knowing right from wrong is different than making decisions and choices. For example, does the person that's making his decision know how to discern between good/evil? I know some atheists who deny sin exists because God doesn't exist, so good/evil don't exist.

You're not looking at your own spirit from God's perspective and his spirit.

Intuition is in the mind. Will is in the mind. Conscience is in the mind. You said "it" says...well "it" is not scripture...it is someone's attempt to explain a complicated subject. Do i depend on my mind or the HS when someone questions my faith??? I depend on my mind. What does marrying a born-again Christian have to do with this topic?? Like i said when you can prove Jesus wrong...maybe i will listen to you but until then i will go with man being body and soul/spirit. Deal?

 

[Guest]

Intuition is in the mind. Will is in the mind. Conscience is in the mind. You said "it" says...well "it" is not scripture...it is someone's attempt to explain a complicated subject. Do i depend on my mind or the HS when someone questions my faith??? I depend on my mind. What does marrying a born-again Christian have to do with this topic?? Like i said when you can prove Jesus wrong...maybe i will listen to you but until then i will go with man being body and soul/spirit. Deal?

Do you have proof that your intuition and conscience are of the mind and not of your spirit. Even if they were, they all have different functions. Soul functions and spirit functions. What are you talking about, 'it'? What am I referring to as 'it'? You depend on your mind over the Holy Spirit to discern biblical truth? Wrong answer. God wants a born again christian to marry another born again christian in order for them to be walking together in the right path. If a born again christian's spirit and soul is aligned with a worldly spirit and soul, chances are there will be disappointment in that marriage. They are focused on two different world's. If two born again christians marry, their goals are similar in their soul and spirit, their goal is Jesus Christ.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Why wasn't Jesus eternally tormented?

Does scripture say He wasn't ?

 

[Grappler]

Intuition is in the mind. Will is in the mind. Conscience is in the mind. You said "it" says...well "it" is not scripture...it is someone's attempt to explain a complicated subject. Do i depend on my mind or the HS when someone questions my faith??? I depend on my mind. What does marrying a born-again Christian have to do with this topic?? Like i said when you can prove Jesus wrong...maybe i will listen to you but until then i will go with man being body and soul/spirit. Deal?

Do you have proof that your intuition and conscience are of the mind and not of your spirit. Even if they were, they all have different functions. Soul functions and spirit functions. What are you talking about, 'it'? What am I referring to as 'it'? You depend on your mind over the Holy Spirit to discern biblical truth? Wrong answer. God wants a born again christian to marry another born again christian in order for them to be walking together in the right path. If a born again christian's spirit and soul is aligned with a worldly spirit and soul, chances are there will be disappointment in that marriage. They are focused on two different world's. If two born again christians marry, their goals are similar in their soul and spirit, their goal is Jesus Christ.

what is the difference between a soul and a spirit? what substance are they made of? You have failed to prove to me that there is any real difference between the two...i think they are two words that can be used in cross reference for the same thing sometimes...can you prove me wrong about that? You are trying to take a complicated issue and make it more complicated. Lets just remember that Jesus said body and soul...Jesus always tried to keep things simple urk maybe we should try as well. Once again i say what does marriage have to do with the topic??totopic Happy Resurrection Day!

 

[Guest]

what is the difference between a soul and a spirit? what substance are they made of? You have failed to prove to me that there is any real difference between the two...i think they are two words that can be used in cross reference for the same thing sometimes...can you prove me wrong about that? You are trying to take a complicated issue and make it more complicated. Lets just remember that Jesus said body and soul...Jesus always tried to keep things simple urk maybe we should try as well. Once again i say what does marriage have to do with the topic??

How are you not understanding what i'm saying about marriage. If you're not getting that, you're not gonna understand anything i'm saying about soul and spirit. Happy Easter eggs hunting.

 

[jasoncran]

.so hades is a grave? really why then not just use queber then? what was the greek word for grave then if all that it was?





urk,my church's position is that the Christ did enter sheol and preach to the spirits there.

five words to describe a what?

ruach.

the word ruach is used a lot.

if I were to say in Hebrew that verse and jesus preached to the spirits in prison. no jew would say that we are talking about people.

Holman Bible Dictionary

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The vital existence of a human being. The Hebrew word nephesh is a key Old Testament term (755 times) referring to human beings. In the New Testament, the term psyche retreats behind the ideas of body, flesh, spirit to characterize human existence. In the Bible, a person is a unity. Body and soul or spirit are not opposite terms, but rather terms which supplement one another to describe aspects of the inseparable whole person. See Anthropology ; Humanity .
Such a holistic image of a person is maintained also in the New Testament even over against the Greek culture which, since Plato, sharply separated body and soul with an analytic exactness and which saw the soul as the valuable, immortal, undying part of human beings. In the Old Testament, the use and variety of the word is much greater while in the New Testament its theological meaning appears much stronger.
The soul designates the physical life. Vitality in all of its breadth and width of meaning is meant by the soul. The basic meaning of nephesh is throat. Thus, the Bible refers to the hungry, thirsty, satisfied, soul ( Psalm 107:5 ,Psalms 107:5,107:9 ; Proverbs 27:7 ; Jeremiah 31:12 ,Jeremiah 31:12,31:25 ). The soul means the entire human being in its physical life needing food and clothing (Matthew 6:25 ). The breathing organs and the breath blown out from them also express individual life in animals as well as human beings (Job 11:20 ; Job 41:21 ; Acts 20:10 ). At times, then, soul can be interchanged with life (Proverbs 7:23 ; Proverbs 8:35-36 ) and can be identical with blood (Deuteronomy 12:23 ). A person does not have a soul. A person is a living soul (Genesis 2:7 ). That means a living being that owes life itself to the Creator just as does the animal (Genesis 2:19 ). For this life or soul, one gives all one has (Job 2:4 ). Satan is permitted by God to take health, that is flesh and blood, but Satan cannot take the bare life of a person (Job 2:5-6 ).
Soul designates the feelings, the wishes, and the will of humans. The work of the throat, its hunger and appetite, stands for the desire and the longing of the human being after power and sex, after satisfaction, and after even the evil (Proverbs 21:10 ), but also after God (Psalm 42:2-3 ). The soul can be incited, embittered, confirmed, unsettled, or kept in suspense (Acts 14:2 ,Acts 14:2,14:22 ; Acts 15:24 ; John 10:24 ). The word mirrors the entire scale of feelings under the influence of the human being, even the psychological. The bitter soul of the childless, the sick, or the threatened (1 Samuel 1:10 ; 2 Kings 4:27 ; 2 Samuel 17:8 ) reminds us of the nephesh as the organ of taste that also stands for the entire embittered person.
The soul also knows positive emotions. The soul rejoices, praises, hopes, and is patient. Never in these cases is only one part of the human being meant. It is always the powerful soul as an expression of the entire personality (Psalm 33:20 ). In the command to love (Deuteronomy 6:5 ; Mark 12:30 ), the soul stands next to other expressions for the human being to emphasize the emotional energy and willpower of the human being all rolled into one.
The soul designates the human person. Soul is not only a synonym with life. One can also speak of the life of the soul (Proverbs 3:22 ). Every human soul (Acts 2:43 ; Romans 2:9 ) means each individual person. The popular expression used today “to save our souls” goes back to this biblical way of thinking (1 Peter 3:20 ). It means to save the entire person. In legal texts, the soul is the individual person with juristic responsibilities (Leviticus 17:10 , a blood-eating soul). Connected with a figure showing statistics or numbers of people, soul becomes an idea in the arena of the statistician (Genesis 46:26-27 ; Acts 2:41 ). At times, soul simply replaces a preposition such as the expression “let my soul live,” which means “let me live” (1 Kings 20:32 ). It is even possible for all the nuances of meaning to sound forth together in the same expression. For instance, in Psalm 103:1 , we read, “Bless, Yahweh, O my soul.” This includes the throat as the organ of life, the soul as the totality of capabilities; my own personal life which experiences the saving actions of Yahweh our God; my person; my own “I”; and the vital, emotional self.
Soul designates the essential life. Physical life is given and maintained by God (Matthew 6:25-34 ). Meaningful and fulfilled life comes only when it is free to give itself to God as a disciple of Jesus Christ. Life is the highest good when it is lived according to God's intentions and not used up in search for material and cultural goods (Mark 8:34-37 ). This life is stronger than death and cannot be destroyed by human beings (Matthew 10:28 ). The soul does not, however, represent a divine, immortal, undying part of the human being after death as the Greeks often thought. Paul, thus, avoids the word soul in connection with eternal life. There is a continuity between the earthly and the resurrected life that does not lie in the capabilities or nature of mortal humans. It lies alone in the power of the Spirit of God (1 Corinthians 15:44 ). According to the Bible, a human being exists as a whole unit and remains also as a whole person in the hand of God after death. A person is not at any time viewed as a bodiless soul.

http://www.studylight.org/dic/hbd/view.cgi?number=T5974

that is jewish in nature and yet the jews believed in sheol.

its here

 

[jasoncran]

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/1585659/jewish/Daily-Zohar-Haazinu-Day-3.htm

that shows they believe in sheol being more then just a grave. a place of punishment.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3194/jewish/What-is-a-Soul.htm
similar to the Holman definition.

so you are saying that the word torment forever is what? that word says forever and ever was their smoke. does that fire burn forever?

 

[Sparkey]

so you are saying that the word torment forever is what?

Quoted from an article, "There is no word for 'hell'," posted in World Press.com, "Love Loudly" blog:

There is no word for Hell.
There is no word that means all of the things that are frequently thought of in modern Christianity as Hell. Fire, Eternal Damnation, torment, devils, Satan.

Instead, what we have, in the original languages, is around a dozen different phrases. “Hades”, “Sheol”, “Gehenna”, “Abbadon”, “Abyssion”, “Tartarus”, “Death”, ‘The Second Death”, “Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth”, “The Lake of Fire”, “Destruction”, “The Grave”, “Outer Darkness”.

Many of these phrases have clear meanings. Hades, for instance, is a direct loanword from Greek, referring to a place where the dead go, good and bad alike. Sheol is from the Hebrew and again holds the general significance of simply a place where the dead go (Hades is generally the Greek used for Sheol). Gehenna was a literal place in Israel, known in ancient times as a place of pagan sacrifices, later a waste dump or burial site (depending on who you ask). Tartarus is the nasty bit of Hades in the Greek mythos. Abbadon simply means destruction. Abyssion means the pit.

Unfortunately, there has been a historic trendline in biblical translation to collapse many of these words together under the single English term of Hell. Our own theological portrait of hell finishes this syncretizing (to unite into one piece). This lets us bring together all of these disparate phrases into a single cohesive portrait.

There is fire. There is torment. There is darkness. There are demons. Satan rules there. And it goes on forever and ever.

I don't know and can not prove Scriptural that "Satan rules there." But quote for what light it may shed on our discussion.

 

[jasoncran]

yes, I have seen that.

 

[jasoncran]

I have found this from josephus. it appears that Abraham's bosom is real.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/history/flavius-josephus/discourse-greeks-hades/chapter-1.html

1. NOW as to Hades, wherein the souls of the of the good things they see, and rejoice in the righteous and unrighteous are detained, it is necessary to speak of it. Hades is a place in the world not regularly finished; a subterraneous region, wherein the light of this world does not shine; from which circumstance, that in this region the light does not shine, it cannot be but there must be in it perpetual darkness. This region is allotted as a place of custody for souls, ill which angels are appointed as guardians to them, who distribute to them temporary punishments, agreeable to every one's behavior and manners.

2. In this region there is a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire, whereinto we suppose no one hath hitherto been cast; but it is prepared for a day afore-determined by God, in which one righteous sentence shall deservedly be passed upon all men; when the unjust, and those that have been disobedient to God, and have given honor to such idols as have been the vain operations of the hands of men as to God himself, shall be adjudged to this everlasting punishment, as having been the causes of defilement; while the just shall obtain an incorruptible and never-fading kingdom. These are now indeed confined in Hades, but not in the same place wherein the unjust are confined.
3. For there is one descent into this region, at whose gate we believe there stands an archangel with an host; which gate when those pass through that are conducted down by the angels appointed over souls, they do not go the same way; but the just are guided to the right hand, and are led with hymns, sung by the angels appointed over that place, unto a region of light, in which the just have dwelt from the beginning of the world; not constrained by necessity, but ever enjoying the prospect of the good things they see, and rejoic in the expectation of those new enjoyments which will be peculiar to every one of them, and esteeming those things beyond what we have here; with whom there is no place of toil, no burning heat, no piercing cold, nor are any briers there; but the countenance of the and of the just, which they see, always smiles them, while they wait for that rest and eternal new life in heaven, which is to succeed this region. This place we call The Bosom of Abraham.
4. But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it.
5. This is the discourse concerning Hades, wherein the souls of all men are confined until a proper season, which God hath determined, when he will make a resurrection of all men from the dead, not procuring a transmigration of souls from one body to another, but raising again those very bodies, which you Greeks, seeing to be dissolved, do not believe [their resurrection]. But learn not to disbelieve it; for while you believe that the soul is created, and yet is made immortal by God, according to the doctrine of Plato, and this in time, be not incredulous; but believe that God is able, when he hath raised to life that body which was made as a compound of the same elements, to make it immortal; for it must never be said of God, that he is able to do some things, and unable to do others. We have therefore believed that the body will be raised again; for although it be dissolved, it is not perished; for the earth receives its remains, and preserves them; and while they are like seed, and are mixed among the more fruitful soil, they flourish, and what is sown is indeed sown bare grain, but at the mighty sound of God the Creator, it will sprout up, and be raised in a clothed and glorious condition, though not before it has been dissolved, and mixed [with the earth]. So that we have not rashly believed the resurrection of the body; for although it be dissolved for a time on account of the original transgression, it exists still, and is cast into the earth as into a potter's furnace, in order to be formed again, not in order to rise again such as it was before, but in a state of purity, and so as never to he destroyed any more. And to every body shall its own soul be restored. And when it hath clothed itself with that body, it will not be subject to misery, but, being itself pure, it will continue with its pure body, and rejoice with it, with which it having walked righteously now in this world, and never having had it as a snare, it will receive it again with great gladness. But as for the unjust, they will receive their bodies not changed, not freed from diseases or distempers, nor made glorious, but with the same diseases wherein they died; and such as they were in their unbelief, the same shall they be when they shall be faithfully judged.
6. For all men, the just as well as the unjust, shall be brought before God the word: for to him hath the Father committed all judgment : and he, in order to fulfill the will of his Father, shall come as Judge, whom we call Christ. For Minos and Rhadamanthus are not the judges, as you Greeks do suppose, but he whom God and the Father hath glorified: CONCERNING WHOM WE HAVE ELSEWHERE GIVEN A MORE PARTICULAR ACCOUNT, FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO SEEK AFTER TRUTH. This person, exercising the righteous judgment of the Father towards all men, hath prepared a just sentence for every one, according to his works; at whose judgment-seat when all men, and angels, and demons shall stand, they will send forth one voice, and say, JUST IS THY JUDGMENT; the rejoinder to which will bring a just sentence upon both parties, by giving justly to those that have done well an everlasting fruition; but allotting to the lovers of wicked works eternal punishment. To these belong the unquenchable fire, and that without end, and a certain fiery worm, never dying, and not destroying the body, but continuing its eruption out of the body with never-ceasing grief: neither will sleep give ease to these men, nor will the night afford them comfort; death will not free them from their punishment, nor will the interceding prayers of their kindred profit them; for the just are no longer seen by them, nor are they thought worthy of remembrance. But the just shall remember only their righteous actions, whereby they have attained the heavenly kingdom, in which there is no sleep, no sorrow, no corruption, no care, no night, no day measured by time, no sun driven in his course along the circle of heaven by necessity, and measuring out the bounds and conversions of the seasons, for the better illumination of the life of men; no moon decreasing and increasing, or introducing a variety of seasons, nor will she then moisten the earth; no burning sun, no Bear turning round [the pole], no Orion to rise, no wandering of innumerable stars. The earth will not then be difficult to be passed over, nor will it he hard to find out the court of paradise, nor will there be any fearful roaring of the sea, forbidding the passengers to walk on it; even that will be made easily passable to the just, though it will not be void of moisture. Heaven will not then be uninhabitable by men, and it will not be impossible to discover the way of ascending thither. The earth will not be uncultivated, nor require too much labor of men, but will bring forth its fruits of its own accord, and will be well adorned with them. There will be no more generations of wild beasts, nor will the substance of the rest of the animals shoot out any more; for it will not produce men, but the number of the righteous will continue, and never fail, together with righteous angels, and spirits [of God], and with his word, as a choir of righteous men and women that never grow old, and continue in an incorruptible state, singing hymns to God, who hath advanced them to that happiness, by the means of a regular institution of life; with whom the whole creation also will lift up a perpetual hymn from corruption, to incorruption, as glorified by a splendid and pure spirit. It will not then be restrained by a bond of necessity, but with a lively freedom shall offer up a voluntary hymn, and shall praise him that made them, together with the angels, and spirits, and men now freed from all bondage.
7. And now, if you Gentiles will be persuaded by these motives, and leave your vain imaginations about your pedigrees, and gaining of riches, and philosophy, and will not spend your time about subtleties of words, and thereby lead your minds into error, and if you will apply your ears to the hearing of the inspired prophets, the interpreters both of God and of his word, and will believe in God, you shall both be partakers of these things, and obtain the good things that are to come; you shall see the ascent unto the immense heaven plainly, and that kingdom which is there. For what God hath now concealed in silence [will be then made manifest,] what neither eye hath seen, nor ear hath heard, nor hath it entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love him. 8. In whatsoever ways I shall find you, in them shall I judge you entirely: so cries the END of all things. And he who hath at first lived a virtuous lift, but towards the latter end falls into vice, these labors by him before endured shall be altogether vain and unprofitable, even as in a play, brought to an ill catastrophe. Whosoever shall have lived wickedly and luxuriously may repent; however, there will be need of much time to conquer an evil habit, and even after repentance his whole life must be guarded with great care and diligence, after the manner of a body, which, after it hath been a long time afflicted with a distemper, requires a stricter diet and method of living; for though it may be possible, perhaps, to break off the chain of our irregular affections at once, yet our amendment cannot be secured without the grace of God, the prayers of good men, the help of the brethren, and our own sincere repentance and constant care. It is a good thing not to sin at all; it is also good, having sinned, to repent; as it is best to have health always, but it is a good thing to recover from a distemper. To God be glory and dominion for ever and ever Amen