Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?

[iLOVE]

Only the one who overcomes. You know, persevere UNTIL THE END.

"But he who endures to the end will be saved." (Matthew 10:22, Mark 13:13)

IMO, this refers to one's faith, perseverance, etc. with regard to eternal salvation.

One and all are encouraged to research this! ... And dozens of other passages.

Your eternal destiny might just depend on it.

Hello,

Matthew 10:22 NKJV - And you shall be hated of all men for My Name's sake (the offense of the Cross) : but he who endures to the end shall be saved (persecution will continue until the Second Coming).

You should always post the full scripture and have wisdom and understanding from the Holy Spirit. A Christian becomes a messenger for Satan ministry which is the "spirit of the world" (God's enemy) when you practice this sin. To spread condemnation is of the Devil's nature.

 

[farouk]

I think Philippians 1.6 is a relevant verse.

 

[iLOVE]

As Christian believers we must understand that the gospel = the too good to be true news. Paul has stated if anyone preaches a gospel other than the gospel of grace let God double cursed them. (Book of Galatians 1)

 

[francisdesales]

Thanks.

I didn't see Grappler's name in that text...

Grappler is just a username....eintstein. I doubt you will find that in any bible....you sure are a sharp one.

LOL! Are you in middle school or something?

I don't care what name you use, it isn't in the passage you cite...

No! I am a Freshman in high school you bully. Oh and i never said that a specific name was in the passage that i cited. If i remember correctly my Lord Jesus said the word ALL...in reference to people. Do you know what ALL means?

Sure thing, "Einstein"... That's why you responded with "Grappler is just a username", as if that makes a difference in what we are talking about...:p

Here is the passage, once again.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out

It doesn't state "all that comes to me". It says "all that the Father has given me". You don't know if you were one of THOSE.

Now, please explain to me how YOU know that the Father has given you specifically and individually to Jesus? How do you know that you are above and beyond the so called "think they are born again but in 5 years won't be born again, never were born again" people?

Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" has been given to Jesus.

 

[francisdesales]

Only the one who overcomes. You know, persevere UNTIL THE END.

"But he who endures to the end will be saved." (Matthew 10:22, Mark 13:13)

IMO, this refers to one's faith, perseverance, etc. with regard to eternal salvation.

One and all are encouraged to research this! ... And dozens of other passages.

Your eternal destiny might just depend on it.

Hello,

Matthew 10:22 NKJV - And you shall be hated of all men for My Name's sake (the offense of the Cross) : but he who endures to the end shall be saved (persecution will continue until the Second Coming).

You should always post the full scripture and have wisdom and understanding from the Holy Spirit. A Christian becomes a messenger for Satan ministry which is the "spirit of the world" (God's enemy) when you practice this sin. To spread condemnation is of the Devil's nature.

How does your exegesis effect the subject matter? And who is spreading condemnation? It is nothing more than "be alert", "persevere", "stay awake". Is that condemnation?

Furthermore, Matthew 24:13 goes beyond just persecution.

One must remain in Christ to enter into eschatological salvation.

Regards

 

[Grappler]

LOL! Are you in middle school or something?

I don't care what name you use, it isn't in the passage you cite...

No! I am a Freshman in high school you bully. Oh and i never said that a specific name was in the passage that i cited. If i remember correctly my Lord Jesus said the word ALL...in reference to people. Do you know what ALL means?

Sure thing, "Einstein"... That's why you responded with "Grappler is just a username", as if that makes a difference in what we are talking about...:p

Here is the passage, once again.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out

It doesn't state "all that comes to me". It says "all that the Father has given me". You don't know if you were one of THOSE.

Now, please explain to me how YOU know that the Father has given you specifically and individually to Jesus? How do you know that you are above and beyond the so called "think they are born again but in 5 years won't be born again, never were born again" people?

Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" has been given to Jesus.

I am so thankful that God gave me to Jesus. How do i know?? I can't believe you asked that. That is the same question that an agnostic asked me once. I talk to Jesus everday. He talks to me everyday. As i told you before and you must have already forgotten...Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 I hear his voice francis and i follow him. Oh and your idea of being born again and un born again and born again etc. is rather dumb.

 

[reba]

2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself.

 

[chessman]

And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6 ESV)
​

This is a great Scripture for showing OSAS=yes because it shows (actually proves it, if you believe God’s Word is infallible and God is Sovereign) that it’s God’s work, not man’s work that ensures salvation. I certainly think it’s clear from Paul’s intention that the “he who began a good work” is reference to God, not any human. Which of course is why the OSAS doctrine makes sense. It doesn’t make sense if we are relying on our own merits/actions/works.
But as for the related questions (our assurance?), Phil 1:6 is consistent within Paul’s life for his personal assurance. The man, after all, was miraculously removed from jail in Philippi prior to writing this letter. He’s got good evidence that God’s will, will be done, even for him personally.
But our private assurance of our own salvation is a different subject than the OSAS OP question (Will all born-again Christians make it to heaven?). Are the two questions related? Sure. But strictly speaking, whether we have personal assurance that we are indeed elect is a different question than the OP. Might make for a good additional OP thread.
Phil 1:6 is consistent with OSAS = yes.

Whereas Peter is contrasting, in 2 Peter 2, by clearly saying that false prophets are indeed false, condemned, destined to be pigs, dogs and they will return to the vomit and mire. There Peter is talking about non-elect people (false prophets).

In Phil 1:6 and John 6:37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." the reference is to saved people, not un-saved.

In 2 Peter 2, the reference is describing what happens to non-elect (non-saved, non-born again, etc.).

Therefore, within all the Scriptures posted so far in this thread, I’ve not seen any posted that argue against OSAS=yes, upon fair analysis of them and within their context.

 

[John 8:32]

Something is the "unforgivable sin", or as Hebrews 6 speaks about, "impossible to repent" because the person in that situation will NOT repent.

If a person does fall away, it is VERY difficult to come back. What leads to that falling away in the first place, and the return to a former life.

When a person refuses to repent, it becomes unforgivable because forgiveness is conditional. One must ask for it.

Regards

The only unforgivable sin that I know if is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, which this passage clearly does not reference. it is specific, " for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come..." which seems to be clearly speaking of believers (with salvation?) falling away, but you bring up a good point! What of those who do fall away and will not repent, or even choose to renounce their faith and not repent? We must ask forgiveness, agreed. And if they do not? OSAS? I think not. So there names would be erased and blotted out from the book of life? Seems reasonable enough. So we must conclude that OSAS is not the case? Feel free to poke holes in this. This makes sense to me.

Well, Jesus does say that the potential exists to have one's name erased from that "book".

If people do not ask for forgiveness, I am thinking there is a good chance of not entering into eternal life.

Regards

Some people believe that this verse teaches that your name can be erased from the book of life. Notice that the verse doesn't say that a person's name can be blotted out of the book. It says, "I will not erase his name from the book of life." Rather than being fearful of being blotted out, this verse gives assurance that a believer's name cannot be erased. This verse doesn't teach you can lose your salvation, but that you can't. Francis you must be one of those people that says the glass is half empty instead of half full.....you are full of doubt and worry.

This would lead one to believe that a name can be blotted out...

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[francisdesales]

LOL! Are you in middle school or something?

I don't care what name you use, it isn't in the passage you cite...

No! I am a Freshman in high school you bully. Oh and i never said that a specific name was in the passage that i cited. If i remember correctly my Lord Jesus said the word ALL...in reference to people. Do you know what ALL means?

Sure thing, "Einstein"... That's why you responded with "Grappler is just a username", as if that makes a difference in what we are talking about...:p

Here is the passage, once again.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out

It doesn't state "all that comes to me". It says "all that the Father has given me". You don't know if you were one of THOSE.

Now, please explain to me how YOU know that the Father has given you specifically and individually to Jesus? How do you know that you are above and beyond the so called "think they are born again but in 5 years won't be born again, never were born again" people?

Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" has been given to Jesus.

I am so thankful that God gave me to Jesus. How do i know?? I can't believe you asked that. That is the same question that an agnostic asked me once. I talk to Jesus everday. He talks to me everyday. As i told you before and you must have already forgotten...Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 I hear his voice francis and i follow him. Oh and your idea of being born again and un born again and born again etc. is rather dumb.

Lots of people say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus states He never knew them... The only way we know Him is by obeying the commandments, not by "talking to Him"...

Forgive me if I am unconvinced with your argument or your conclusions.

I see no further use in discussing this issue with you, nothing constructive can come from it. Good bye.

 

[francisdesales]

In 2 Peter 2, the reference is describing what happens to non-elect (non-saved, non-born again, etc.).

Therefore, within all the Scriptures posted so far in this thread, I’ve not seen any posted that argue against OSAS=yes, upon fair analysis of them and within their context.

LOL!!! You have provided no evidence that 2 Peter is speaking about unsaved individuals. Verse 20 will not allow such an interpretation... In our discussions, all you have stated is basically "chessman has stated it as so"... There is no evidence based just on the text.

There are numerous other verses of people who were "saved" and had subsequently fallen away. There are numerous examples in LIFE that tell us the same thing, bold "statements to the contrary.

I haven't seen any verses that state an individual is guaranteed eschatological salvation without any conditions. This is a total disregard for the Scriptural evidence to remain faithful and persevere until the end so often stated.

Regards

 

[chessman]

You have provided no evidence that 2 Peter is speaking about unsaved individuals

What do you feel Peter meant by: What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.†(2 Peter 2:22 ESV)

???
Who's the "them" (saved or un-saved)? What is true about his proverb reference?

 

[chessman]

LOL!!!... In our discussions, all you have stated is basically "chessman has stated it as so"...

Are you laughing at me and my statements or are you laughing at

“What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.” (2 Peter 2:22 ESV)
​

???

 

[chessman]

This would lead one to believe that a name can be blotted out... Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Now we’re talking Scripture (A&T) toward ones position. That’s an excellent point and way to argue one’s point, Scripturally. And indeed I see your point and it COULD mean OSAS=no. But let's resectfully reason through it a bit:
When I read Ex 32 starting at verse 30 and reading all the way through 34 (at least) I honestly see it differently.

30 The next day Moses said to the people, “You have sinned a great sin. And now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.†31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, “Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.†33 But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book. 34 But now go, lead the people to the place about which I have spoken to you; behold, my angel shall go before you. Nevertheless, in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them.â€
​

So here’s my thoughts/understanding of this passage:
1. First, it’s Moses’ words/request that he choose to use “please blot out me out of your bookâ€, not God’s initially bringing up the subject. God responds with “whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my bookâ€. So my point is that God’s the one doing the “blotting outâ€, not any human. No it does seem to relate with another Scripture we know of:

The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. Rev 3:5
​

I reconcile it with first, understanding it’s God’s Sovereign will that determines who goes into and out of His book (not man’s). Second, God corrected Moses on this point, using Moses’ words and request for himself (I’d say an elect person). God came back with, “I determine that, if you don’t mindâ€. Pound away (reject even) at my understanding and interpretation of this message if you like. But at least we’re talking about Scripture!

2. Second, I don’t think it teaches OSAS=no since it says “whoever has sinned against meâ€. In this case, the Israelites (some of them for sure that made and worshiped the golden calf). But not Moses. It never says God, “blotted†out Moses’ name or anybody else for that matter.
3. It says, to me anyway, that God in fact would not be “blotting out†Moses from His books.
4. Ironic that from so long ago (Israelites just out of Egypt) to the end-times of Rev that God’s message is the same and consistent.
5. To see Ex 32 in any other way, would indeed seem like God’s contradicting Himself with Rev 3:5. I don't think that's the case.

 

[gr8grace]

Well, Jesus does say that the potential exists to have one's name erased from that "book".

If people do not ask for forgiveness, I am thinking there is a good chance of not entering into eternal life.

Regards

Some people believe that this verse teaches that your name can be erased from the book of life. Notice that the verse doesn't say that a person's name can be blotted out of the book. It says, "I will not erase his name from the book of life." Rather than being fearful of being blotted out, this verse gives assurance that a believer's name cannot be erased. This verse doesn't teach you can lose your salvation, but that you can't. Francis you must be one of those people that says the glass is half empty instead of half full.....you are full of doubt and worry.

This would lead one to believe that a name can be blotted out...

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I agree with you, a name can be blotted out. That is because everybody has their name in the Book of life. God told Moses that He would Blot out a persons name who had sinned against him because Moses could not have his name blotted out, he was a believer. Not believing in Christ is how one gets their name blotted out.

Rev 22:19~~ "book" is a bad translation. "Staves" or tree is a better translation. It denotes blessings or positions(rewards) taken away. Rev 22:19 is not talking about the book of life.

Rev 3:5 is our Lord emphatically telling us that believers names cannot be removed from the book of life.

In the times that revelation was written the Romans had a registry of names for all citizens, the Roman Government was persecuting Christians and demanding that they renounce Christ. If they did not renounce Christ they were being erased from the Roman registry and branded as criminals. So our Lord is telling us that we will not have our names erased from the book of life.

 

[Grappler]

Well, Jesus does say that the potential exists to have one's name erased from that "book".

If people do not ask for forgiveness, I am thinking there is a good chance of not entering into eternal life.

Regards

Some people believe that this verse teaches that your name can be erased from the book of life. Notice that the verse doesn't say that a person's name can be blotted out of the book. It says, "I will not erase his name from the book of life." Rather than being fearful of being blotted out, this verse gives assurance that a believer's name cannot be erased. This verse doesn't teach you can lose your salvation, but that you can't. Francis you must be one of those people that says the glass is half empty instead of half full.....you are full of doubt and worry.

This would lead one to believe that a name can be blotted out...

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This would lead one to believe that one will never be cast out. John 6:37 "All that the Father has given me will come to me and whoever comes to me i will never be cast out."
I came to Jesus...so according to Jesus he will never cast me out.

 

[Grappler]

Sure thing, "Einstein"... That's why you responded with "Grappler is just a username", as if that makes a difference in what we are talking about...:p

Here is the passage, once again.

All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out

It doesn't state "all that comes to me". It says "all that the Father has given me". You don't know if you were one of THOSE.

Now, please explain to me how YOU know that the Father has given you specifically and individually to Jesus? How do you know that you are above and beyond the so called "think they are born again but in 5 years won't be born again, never were born again" people?

Not everyone who says "Lord, Lord" has been given to Jesus.

I am so thankful that God gave me to Jesus. How do i know?? I can't believe you asked that. That is the same question that an agnostic asked me once. I talk to Jesus everday. He talks to me everyday. As i told you before and you must have already forgotten...Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John 10:27 I hear his voice francis and i follow him. Oh and your idea of being born again and un born again and born again etc. is rather dumb.

Lots of people say "Lord, Lord" and Jesus states He never knew them... The only way we know Him is by obeying the commandments, not by "talking to Him"...

Forgive me if I am unconvinced with your argument or your conclusions.

I see no further use in discussing this issue with you, nothing constructive can come from it. Good bye.

I forgive you. I am also happy that convincing you means nothing to my relationship with Jesus. I was just trying to help you out a little francis. You seem to be insecure in your faith. You also seem to be jealous of those of us who are 100% sure of our relationship with Jesus the Son of God. Good bye.

 

[Grappler]

Well, Jesus does say that the potential exists to have one's name erased from that "book".

If people do not ask for forgiveness, I am thinking there is a good chance of not entering into eternal life.

Regards

Some people believe that this verse teaches that your name can be erased from the book of life. Notice that the verse doesn't say that a person's name can be blotted out of the book. It says, "I will not erase his name from the book of life." Rather than being fearful of being blotted out, this verse gives assurance that a believer's name cannot be erased. This verse doesn't teach you can lose your salvation, but that you can't. Francis you must be one of those people that says the glass is half empty instead of half full.....you are full of doubt and worry.

This would lead one to believe that a name can be blotted out...

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I agree with you, a name can be blotted out. That is because everybody has their name in the Book of life. God told Moses that He would Blot out a persons name who had sinned against him because Moses could not have his name blotted out, he was a believer. Not believing in Christ is how one gets their name blotted out.

Rev 22:19~~ "book" is a bad translation. "Staves" or tree is a better translation. It denotes blessings or positions(rewards) taken away. Rev 22:19 is not talking about the book of life.

Rev 3:5 is our Lord emphatically telling us that believers names cannot be removed from the book of life.

In the times that revelation was written the Romans had a registry of names for all citizens, the Roman Government was persecuting Christians and demanding that they renounce Christ. If they did not renounce Christ they were being erased from the Roman registry and branded as criminals. So our Lord is telling us that we will not have our names erased from the book of life.

That is an interesting point you brought up. Do you believe that once you are born-again that you can then become unborn-again? over and over?

 

[John 8:32]

Well, Jesus does say that the potential exists to have one's name erased from that "book".

If people do not ask for forgiveness, I am thinking there is a good chance of not entering into eternal life.

Regards

Some people believe that this verse teaches that your name can be erased from the book of life. Notice that the verse doesn't say that a person's name can be blotted out of the book. It says, "I will not erase his name from the book of life." Rather than being fearful of being blotted out, this verse gives assurance that a believer's name cannot be erased. This verse doesn't teach you can lose your salvation, but that you can't. Francis you must be one of those people that says the glass is half empty instead of half full.....you are full of doubt and worry.

This would lead one to believe that a name can be blotted out...

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.
Exo 32:33 And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

I agree with you, a name can be blotted out. That is because everybody has their name in the Book of life. God told Moses that He would Blot out a persons name who had sinned against him because Moses could not have his name blotted out, he was a believer. Not believing in Christ is how one gets their name blotted out.

Rev 22:19~~ "book" is a bad translation. "Staves" or tree is a better translation. It denotes blessings or positions(rewards) taken away. Rev 22:19 is not talking about the book of life.

Rev 3:5 is our Lord emphatically telling us that believers names cannot be removed from the book of life.

In the times that revelation was written the Romans had a registry of names for all citizens, the Roman Government was persecuting Christians and demanding that they renounce Christ. If they did not renounce Christ they were being erased from the Roman registry and branded as criminals. So our Lord is telling us that we will not have our names erased from the book of life.

I have not researched the thought that everyone's name is initially in the Book of Life. I THINK (and I emphasize think here) that the Book contains nothing and ones name is added at conversion. I also think one's name can be removed acoording to Heb 10 and the verses I cited earlier, as far as name written initially, I must refrain from commenting without scriptural references to make a determination from.

 

[chessman]

I also think one's name can be removed acoording to Heb 10

Heb10:14 (ESV)14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.


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