Woman on the Beast

[for_his_glory]

I agree that the 6th head is the Roman empire existing in John's day. And I believe that the 7th head is yet future. And I agree that the 7th head will be the revised Roman empire. But, (Rev. 17:11) is clear that there is an 8th. The beast that was and is not. See post #(33). So, though it is of the 7th, it is another. At this point, I am inclined to believe that this is the beast after it destroys the woman. It takes on a totally different nature.

Let me reply to this part first.

We have to understand what and who "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is as it's beginning started in Babylon and extended through the seven Empires up to the present day revived Roman Empire that I explained in post #34.

The harlot is a false pagan religious system and the beast she rides on is the Luciferians political, economic, educational and false religious system who gives its power and authority to the beast out of the earth who is the false prophet (son of perdition) who will cause a great falling away, but will be consumed by the spirit of the mouth of Christ when He returns, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 19:11-21.

Here is my understanding of Rev 17:9-11.
The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

 

[for_his_glory]

As for the 10 horns, they are part of the beast, the political Babylon. So it is my understanding that they should not be used to define the woman. Mystery Babylon should not be used to define them. They will eventually destroy the woman. (Rev. 17:12,16)

The ten horns, or as known as ten nations are what the beast controls and is defined by the paganism of the woman, being a false pagan religious system. The only one who is going to destroy the harlot and the beast she rides on is Christ when He returns. Rev 19:11-21.

The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received their kingdoms as the Vatican's New World Order Headquarters and the United Nations Organization, One Security Council that claims authority over the world are waiting for ten permanent members. In 2009 the UNO divided the world into ten economic regions and each one will have a Jesuit Provincial set over them, but their end will come with the glory of the Lord striking them down when He returns with us His army.

Ten Kingdoms of a One World Government:
Kingdom 1: Canada, Mexico and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union – Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia

 

[for_his_glory]

(Rev. 17:8-13) is very difficult to interpret. I know I said in post #(19) that (Rev. 17) deals with the woman, the religious aspect of Babylon. I drew that line too quickly. It also deals with the political aspect, the beast. And (Rev. 17:8-13) is describing the beast upon which the woman sits.

But it is clear, to me anyway, that distinction must be kept between the woman and the beast.

So, the description given of the beast in (17:8-13) applies only to the beast, in my opinion. Only to that political kingdom. Not in anyway is it to apply to the religious aspect.

In (Rev. 17:8) the beast in the first part of the verse is described as, "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not". But in the latter part of the verse the beast is described as, "...behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

So we know the beast John saw was not around in Johns day as it is said that it 'is not'. But we know the Roman empire is the 6th head of the beast, and was around in John's day. (Rev. 17:10) "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come."

To further add confusion, enter (Rev. 17:11) "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." So the eighth beast is of the seven but is 'another' beast.

Here I am just thinking outloud. Does it not appear that the beast described in (Rev. 17:8) as was and is not is not the same beast described as was, and is not, and yet is even though both are in the same verse?

And, the woman, the religious aspect of Babel, rides the 7 headed beast. But perhaps she doesn't ride the 8th. The 8th comes into power after her destruction.

If this is so, then there are two beasts yet future. That of the revision of the Roman empire upon which the woman will still ride. And then there is the beast after the woman is destroyed.

Quantrill

I will get back to you on this as I have to put it all together in order to reply.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is the same woman from Rev 12.

If you think that the woman is Jerusalem

Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

This is the same woman from Rev 12.

Revelation 12:1
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Revelation 12:14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Galatians 4:21-27
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.



The woman is Jerusalem.

Revelation 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Where are the names of blasphemy, the seven heads and ten horns mention in Rev 12:1-6?

If this evil woman who you think is Jerusalem and is so full of names of blasphemy having seven heads and ten horns, why would God have used her to bring forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Why would God have her to flee into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Do you really think God would prepare her a place of safety and make sure she had food to Eat?

 

[ezrider]

The woman is arrayed in purple and scarlet colors. These are the main colors of the Roman Catholic Church. The woman is the city of Rome known as Vatican City and the scarlet beast is the spiritual and worldly empire it controls being that of the Roman Catholic Church and all its believers through out the nations.

The WOMAN is NOT the city of Rome. You have this whole doctrine built around the woman being Rome, but it is not Rome. If you build a doctrine based upon a false premiss, then what kind of doctrine would that be considered?

The Woman is Jerusalem, or as Paul called her, Hagar, the bondwoman who thinks herself to be a queen.

Revelation 17:16
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Matthew 23:37-38
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


The scripture is quite clear that the Woman, the Mother of harlots, is Jerusalem.

 

[ezrider]

If you think that the woman is Jerusalem

Where are the names of blasphemy, the seven heads and ten horns mention in Rev 12:1-6?

If this evil woman who you think is Jerusalem and is so full of names of blasphemy having seven heads and ten horns, why would God have used her to bring forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Why would God have her to flee into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Do you really think God would prepare her a place of safety and make sure she had food to Eat?

Well, one of the names written is MYSTERY, is it not? Abraham had two wives, but the one was cast out.


Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Isaiah 54:1
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

 

[ezrider]

Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot!
it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it;
but now murderers.

Jeremiah 13:27
I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?



for_his_glory, do you need any more examples? Where in the scripture was Rome ever called the faithful city? Where in the scripture was Rome ever called the Lord's Wife?

 

[Quantrill]

Let me reply to this part first.

We have to understand what and who "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is as it's beginning started in Babylon and extended through the seven Empires up to the present day revived Roman Empire that I explained in post #34.

The harlot is a false pagan religious system and the beast she rides on is the Luciferians political, economic, educational and false religious system who gives its power and authority to the beast out of the earth who is the false prophet (son of perdition) who will cause a great falling away, but will be consumed by the spirit of the mouth of Christ when He returns, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 19:11-21.

Here is my understanding of Rev 17:9-11.
The seven mountains are not literal mountains, but symbolic of present day Iraq, Iran, Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt and Rome being part of Satan’s ruling power found in the four nations of the Babylonian Empire, Medo-Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. John would have known of all these nations throughout history and surely knew the Roman Empire in his lifetime.

The five fallen kingdoms that have always persecuted Gods people before John's lifetime were Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. John could only know that of the Roman Empire in his life time as Israel was in subjection to Rome. Before John’s time Israel was in subjection to Greece, Persia and Babylon and in its earlier history was in slavery to Assyria and in its beginning was in slavery to Egypt.

One is: is that of the Roman Papal government up till 1798 when it received it deadly wound when General Berthier and Napoleon had abolished the papal government back in 1798 and established a secular one.

And the other not yet come and when he cometh, he must continue a short space is the reestablished Roman Catholic Church given back in 1929 when the Lateran Treaty had been signed between the Roman Catholic Church and Mussolini’s fascist Italian government. The treaty was signed by Benito Mussolini on behalf of King Victor Emmanuel III and by Cardinal Secretary of State Pietro Gasparri for Pope Pius XI. The Lateran Treaty and the Concordat unilaterally established the independent State of the Vatican City on February 11, 1929 and granted Roman Catholicism special status in Italy.

The beast that was: was Pope Pius VI (25 December 1717 – 29 August 1799) born Count Giovanni Angelo Braschi reigned as Pope from 15 February 1775 to his death in 1799. There were no other Popes until 1929 when Pope Pius XI ruled over Vatican City as he exercised principal legislative, executive and judicial power as all the other Popes have since that time.

There have been eight Popes starting with Pope Pius XI up to the seventh and eight Pope being Pope Francis. The reason Pope Francis is the seventh and eight is that Pope Benedict XVI being the seventh king (Pope) resigned. A new Pope is not selected until the former one dies.

I disagree. You are mixing the woman and the beast. The two, in my opinion, must be kept separate.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

The ten horns, or as known as ten nations are what the beast controls and is defined by the paganism of the woman, being a false pagan religious system. The only one who is going to destroy the harlot and the beast she rides on is Christ when He returns. Rev 19:11-21.

The ten horns are ten kings who have not yet received their kingdoms as the Vatican's New World Order Headquarters and the United Nations Organization, One Security Council that claims authority over the world are waiting for ten permanent members. In 2009 the UNO divided the world into ten economic regions and each one will have a Jesuit Provincial set over them, but their end will come with the glory of the Lord striking them down when He returns with us His army.

Ten Kingdoms of a One World Government:
Kingdom 1: Canada, Mexico and the United States of America
Kingdom 2: European Union – Western Europe
Kingdom 3: Japan
Kingdom 4: Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and Pacific Islands
Kingdom 5: Eastern Europe
Kingdom 6: Latin America, Central and South America
Kingdom 7: North Africa and the Middle East
Kingdom 8: Central Africa
Kingdom 9: South and Southeast Asia
Kingdom 10: Central Asia

I disagree. The whore, religious and Mystery Babylon, will be destroyed by the 10 horns which represent political Babylon. (Rev. 17:16-17)

I disagree with your listing of 10 nations. They are based on the religious aspect, the woman, and not the political aspect, the beast.

I don't know what exactly the 10 nations will be. But they will come out of that revised Roman empire which at this time, I believe, will make up the same area as the former Roman empire.

Again, you are mixing the woman and the beast. I believe they must be kept separate.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot!
it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it;
but now murderers.

Jeremiah 13:27
I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?



for_his_glory, do you need any more examples? Where in the scripture was Rome ever called the faithful city? Where in the scripture was Rome ever called the Lord's Wife?

Just because Jerusalem became a harlot, for which she was judged, doesn't make her the great whore in (Rev. 17).

She doesn't meet the description of the whore who is used to unite and control the Gentile nations. (Rev. 17:1,15).

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

(Rev. 17:8-13) is very difficult to interpret. I know I said in post #(19) that (Rev. 17) deals with the woman, the religious aspect of Babylon. I drew that line too quickly. It also deals with the political aspect, the beast. And (Rev. 17:8-13) is describing the beast upon which the woman sits.

But it is clear, to me anyway, that distinction must be kept between the woman and the beast.

So, the description given of the beast in (17:8-13) applies only to the beast, in my opinion. Only to that political kingdom. Not in anyway is it to apply to the religious aspect.

In (Rev. 17:8) the beast in the first part of the verse is described as, "The beast that thou sawest was, and is not". But in the latter part of the verse the beast is described as, "...behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."

So we know the beast John saw was not around in Johns day as it is said that it 'is not'. But we know the Roman empire is the 6th head of the beast, and was around in John's day. (Rev. 17:10) "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come."

To further add confusion, enter (Rev. 17:11) "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." So the eighth beast is of the seven but is 'another' beast.

Here I am just thinking outloud. Does it not appear that the beast described in (Rev. 17:8) as was and is not is not the same beast described as was, and is not, and yet is even though both are in the same verse?

And, the woman, the religious aspect of Babel, rides the 7 headed beast. But perhaps she doesn't ride the 8th. The 8th comes into power after her destruction.

If this is so, then there are two beasts yet future. That of the revision of the Roman empire upon which the woman will still ride. And then there is the beast after the woman is destroyed.

Quantrill

Sorry for the delay as I had to put this all together.

The harlot has always been a political power that rides on the back of the beast that is a pagan religious system from the the first Empire being the Babylonian Empire clear through to the revived Roman Empire today.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.


Jeremiah 51 (cross reference to Rev 17:1-2) is about the utter destruction of literal Babylonian Empire as we also read this in Rev 17-18 that describes the harlot as being mystery Babylon mother of harlots and how she is destroyed when Christ returns just by the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 19:11-21,

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


Jer 51:13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

 

[for_his_glory]

,
In your post #3, you asked for_his_glory why she didn't give the scripture for the woman on the beast. She replied by referencing Revelation chapter 17-18 which wasn't responsive to your question.

You responded in your post # 5 with "About time." which suggests that you thought that she was responsive to your question.

But then in you're post #7 you said to for_his_glory that she hadn't answered your question. Seems maybe you should have started your post #5 off with that comment.

Incidentally, she still hasn't answered it.

Incidentally I have answered his question as this is what he and I are discussing. If you have nothing to contribute to this thread then all I can see is that you are only trolling and if so you will be removed from this thread.

 

[for_his_glory]

The WOMAN is NOT the city of Rome.

The harlot has always been a political power that rides on the back of the beast that is a pagan religious system from the the first Empire being the Babylonian Empire clear through to the revived Roman Empire today.

 

[for_his_glory]

The WOMAN is NOT the city of Rome. You have this whole doctrine built around the woman being Rome, but it is not Rome. If you build a doctrine based upon a false premiss, then what kind of doctrine would that be considered?

The Woman is Jerusalem, or as Paul called her, Hagar, the bondwoman who thinks herself to be a queen.

Revelation 17:16
And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Matthew 23:37-38
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


The scripture is quite clear that the Woman, the Mother of harlots, is Jerusalem.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion even if I disagree.

My understanding is that the harlot/woman is not Jerusalem, but is found not only in Jerusalem as being that of the political ruling power of the Roman Empire, that even today rules over Jerusalem and the whole world. It is that power she gives to the beast out of the earth to cause all to take the mark of the beast she rides on for the last time in the end of days will make many martyr's who refuse to denounce Christ.

I already explained that in full in post #51.

 

[for_his_glory]

I disagree. You are mixing the woman and the beast. The two, in my opinion, must be kept separate.

Quantrill

I am not mixing the harlot/woman and the beast she rides on. I explained that in post #51.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt.

The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

As far as that list I gave you on the ten kingdoms of a one world government, just ignore that as it's a topic within itself that I would rather not go into as it's to controversial for a forum.

 

[for_his_glory]

Well, one of the names written is MYSTERY, is it not? Abraham had two wives, but the one was cast out.


Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Isaiah 54:1
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the Lord.

How can the word "mystery" be a name of blasphemy?

What does any of this have to do with the OP and you never answered my question so I will post it again.

Where are the names of blasphemy, the seven heads and ten horns mention in Rev 12:1-6?

 

[rstrats]

Incidentally I have answered his question..."

You hadn't answered it by the time I posted my comment to Quantrill.

 

[Quantrill]

Sorry for the delay as I had to put this all together.

The harlot has always been a political power that rides on the back of the beast that is a pagan religious system from the the first Empire being the Babylonian Empire clear through to the revived Roman Empire today.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.


Jeremiah 51 (cross reference to Rev 17:1-2) is about the utter destruction of literal Babylonian Empire as we also read this in Rev 17-18 that describes the harlot as being mystery Babylon mother of harlots and how she is destroyed when Christ returns just by the brightness of His coming, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12; Rev 19:11-21,

Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD'S hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad. 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.


Jer 51:13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The seven heads are that of the Babylonian Empire, Medo/Persian Empire, Grecian Empire and Roman Empire. The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3. The deadly wound came in 1798 when General Berthier of France, who made his entrance into Rome, abolished the Roman government and established a secular one and captured Pope Pius VI, who soon died in captivity in Valence, on August 29, 1799. In 1801 Napoleon made an agreement with Pope Pius II establishing Napoleon’s Organic Articles of granting the Tribunal and the Corps legislative partial control of the concordat in order to help the state monitor any politically harmful Catholic or Protestant movements or activities. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to Pope Pius XI and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt. In 146BC the Romans destroyed Corinth during the Battle of Corinth and made the Greece Empire into a province of the Roman Empire. This timeline goes from 753BC to 27BC. Nero burned Rome in 64AD and blamed the Christian community in the city causing the Roman Empires first persecution of Christians. In 1453 was the rise of the Ottoman Empire that conquered Constantinople destroying the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Roman Empire) that reigned from 330AD to 1453AD. The Roman Empire was then called the Holy Roman Empire that was a political entity beginning in 800AD - 1806AD from the time of Charlemagne (Holy Roman Emperor) who protected Pope Leo III from Adrian's supporters in Rome to Francis II, King of France. Pope Pius VII was the Pope from 1800-1823. The Roman Empire is known today as Vatican City, a city-state surrounded by Rome and Italy who has diplomatic relations with every nation around the world.

We disagree. I see the great whore as distinct from the beast. You want to mix the two.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I am not mixing the harlot/woman and the beast she rides on. I explained that in post #51.

The Roman Empire began in 753BC by Romulus who founded Rome in 27BC with Augustus Caesar becoming the first emperor of Rome in 27 BC and died in 14AD. Rome controlled over two million square miles stretching from the Rhine River to Egypt and from Britain (England) to Asia Minor which made up the Grecian Empire of Greece, Turkey, Syria and Egypt.

The ten horns represent the nations the Roman Empire scattered to when the deadly wound was put upon them, Daniel 7:23-25; Rev 13:3.

These ten nations were the Anglo-Saxons (Germans in Great Britain), the Franks (French), Suevi (Portuguese), Visigoths (Spanish), Burgundians (Swiss), Alemanni (Germans), Lombards (Italians), Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals in northern Africa. The last three being Ostrogoths, Heruli, and the Vandals had already been destroyed by the Roman Empire before their deadly wound came in 1798.

As far as that list I gave you on the ten kingdoms of a one world government, just ignore that as it's a topic within itself that I would rather not go into as it's to controversial for a forum.

Yes you are. You have now inverted them. You now say the whore is the political aspect of Babylon and the beast is the religious aspect of Babylon. See post #(51,53).

You say that after I specifically said in post #(18,19) that the woman was the religious system of Babylon, and the beast she rode on was the political system.

To which you agreed in post #(21).

You are changing your position from post to post. It's clear that your position has flaws that you don't want to admit.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot!
it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it;
but now murderers.

Jeremiah 13:27
I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?



for_his_glory, do you need any more examples? Where in the scripture was Rome ever called the faithful city? Where in the scripture was Rome ever called the Lord's Wife?

Isaiah Chapter 1-35 are prophecies of condemnation against Israel. Chapter 1 is Isaiah's first message of condemnation aimed at his own countrymen in Judah. Judah is riddled with moral and spiritual ritualism and selfishness as they have bowed down and committed fornication and lived deliciously with the harlot. The harlot is not an actual woman, but that of a wicked governmental ruling power.

Jeremiah 13:27 says the same thing as both scriptures are calling Judah to repent and turn back to God.