Works save? Rubbish

[Merry Menagerie]

We sin but we don't continue in sin. I think this point needs to be brought home. It is not within our nature to sin - so when we do...our nature (spirit) cries out and we quit doing it because it goes against our nature. Kind of like if you were to bend your finger back...you'd be making your finger do something that goes against it's nature - and what happens? It hurts!!!! So you have to stop doing it...if you don't stop doing it then your finger would be injured.

 

[Solo]

Who saves us? Ourselves? No. God? Yes.

If God saves us, how does he save a sinner? He recreates us by the born from above, born of the Spirit, born again experience upon our belief, our faith in Jesus Christ, God almighty.

Do we continue to have the old nature? Yes, but we now have a new member within us, God himself, the Holy Spirit. We are now the temple of God.

Do we continue to have sin in the old nature?
Yes but we also have the righteousness of Jesus imputed to us after our born again experience.

Did we initiate going to God to get saved? No God, God drew us toward himself.

Did we open our dead eyes to see the truth? No, God the Holy Spirit removed the scales from our eyes.

Did we quicken ourselves upon our belief in Jesus Christ? No, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ quickened us, as we were dead in our trespasses.

Do we keep ourselves from becoming lost and unsaved again? No, God sealed us with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when Jesus returns.

Am I saying that each believer had nothing to do to get saved, or to stay saved? I am saying that God is the way to be saved, He drew us to salvation, he gave us the comforter to dwell within us to guide us into all truth, He gave us the ability to do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens us, and he keeps us sealed by the Holy Spirit until we are redeemed. It is all the work of God, not of our own works lest any one of us should boast. GOD HAS DONE IT ALL FOR US.

Of course there are those that believe that they keep themselves righteous enough to be accepted by God all on their own works, and the truth of that matter is that no one is good but God himself. All of mankind's righteousness is as filthy rags. The only righteousness that mankind can have is the righteousness of Jesus Christ which is imputed to each one that believes what God has shown them.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Heidi. How do you apply commands 1-4 to your life? I'm still waiting. :smt015

 

[Heidi]

Who saves us? Ourselves? No. God? Yes.

If God saves us, how does he save a sinner? He recreates us by the born from above, born of the Spirit, born again experience upon our belief, our faith in Jesus Christ, God almighty.

Do we continue to have the old nature? Yes, but we now have a new member within us, God himself, the Holy Spirit. We are now the temple of God.

Do we continue to have sin in the old nature?
Yes but we also have the righteousness of Jesus imputed to us after our born again experience.

Did we initiate going to God to get saved? No God, God drew us toward himself.

Did we open our dead eyes to see the truth? No, God the Holy Spirit removed the scales from our eyes.

Did we quicken ourselves upon our belief in Jesus Christ? No, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ quickened us, as we were dead in our trespasses.

Do we keep ourselves from becoming lost and unsaved again? No, God sealed us with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption when Jesus returns.

Am I saying that each believer had nothing to do to get saved, or to stay saved? I am saying that God is the way to be saved, He drew us to salvation, he gave us the comforter to dwell within us to guide us into all truth, He gave us the ability to do all things through Jesus Christ who strengthens us, and he keeps us sealed by the Holy Spirit until we are redeemed. It is all the work of God, not of our own works lest any one of us should boast. GOD HAS DONE IT ALL FOR US.

Of course there are those that believe that they keep themselves righteous enough to be accepted by God all on their own works, and the truth of that matter is that no one is good but God himself. All of mankind's righteousness is as filthy rags. The only righteousness that mankind can have is the righteousness of Jesus Christ which is imputed to each one that believes what God has shown them.

Good post, Solo. But you're going to get arguments about it from people who like to argue with the bible under the guise of "interpretation." I have posted your message many times and the fact that it has to keep being repeated doesn't say a lot for many Christians on this forum. Thanks for your post.

 

[Heidi]

Heidi. How do you apply commands 1-4 to your life? I'm still waiting. :smt015

I have answered this question many, many times. So why do you ask me questions before reading my posts? :o

Once again, "Love is the fulfillment of the law" which Paul siad in Romans 13:10.

Once we receive the Holy Spirit, which is the grace of God given to us by Christ's death on the cross, we can now forgive our neighbor from our heart. We therefore will not; murder him, steal from him, commit adultery against him, lie to him, and because we have been forgiven we will give all the glory and honor to God alone for giving us his love that we give to others.

But I am simply amazed at how so many people do not understand this simple concept. If they had love in their hearts, they would not even ask how to apply the Ten Caommandments!

 

[SputnikBoy]

Heidi. How do you apply commands 1-4 to your life? I'm still waiting. :smt015

I have answered this question many, many times. So why do you ask me questions before reading my posts? :o

Once again, "Love is the fulfillment of the law" which Paul siad in Romans 13:10.

Once we receive the Holy Spirit, which is the grace of God given to us by Christ's death on the cross, we can now forgive our neighbor from our heart. We therefore will not; murder him, steal from him, commit adultery against him, lie to him, and because we have been forgiven we will give all the glory and honor to God alone for giving us his love that we give to others.

But I am simply amazed at how so many people do not understand this simple concept. If they had love in their hearts, they would not even ask how to apply the Ten Caommandments!

Sorry to continue being such a pain with this topic, Heidi. Again, I'm sure that many NONCHRISTIANS keep SIX of the TEN Commandments with nary a thought for why they are doing so. My point again is that one doesn't need a belief in God to not murder, to not steal, to not commit adultery, to not covet, and so on. As you said previously, it's generally no big deal to NOT do these things. Any decent human being will keep commandments 5-10 automatically, even though they may be oblivious to the fact that God asked this of them.

One DOES, however, need to have accepted God in their life in order to keep those commandments that pertain SPECIFICALLY to God. So, I ask you again, do you keep commandments 1-4? If you DON'T, then WHAT IS IT exactly that sets you apart from many a nonchristian? Am I not stating this question clearly enough for you?

 

[Solo]

Heidi. How do you apply commands 1-4 to your life? I'm still waiting. :smt015

I have answered this question many, many times. So why do you ask me questions before reading my posts? :o

Once again, "Love is the fulfillment of the law" which Paul siad in Romans 13:10.

Once we receive the Holy Spirit, which is the grace of God given to us by Christ's death on the cross, we can now forgive our neighbor from our heart. We therefore will not; murder him, steal from him, commit adultery against him, lie to him, and because we have been forgiven we will give all the glory and honor to God alone for giving us his love that we give to others.

But I am simply amazed at how so many people do not understand this simple concept. If they had love in their hearts, they would not even ask how to apply the Ten Caommandments!

Sorry to continue being such a pain with this topic, Heidi. Again, I'm sure that many NONCHRISTIANS keep SIX of the TEN Commandments with nary a thought for why they are doing so. My point again is that one doesn't need a belief in God to not murder, to not steal, to not commit adultery, to not covet, and so on. As you said previously, it's generally no big deal to NOT do these things. Any decent human being will keep commandments 5-10 automatically, even though they may be oblivious to the fact that God asked this of them.

One DOES, however, need to have accepted God in their life in order to keep those commandments that pertain SPECIFICALLY to God. So, I ask you again, do you keep commandments 1-4? If you DON'T, then WHAT IS IT exactly that sets you apart from many a nonchristian? Am I not stating this question clearly enough for you?

SputnikBoy,

I believe that you had asked Heidi a while back for her to explain what it meant that Jesus fulfilled the law. If it wasn't you, then I apologize, but since you said that most unbelievers keep commandments 5 through 10, let me explain to you how most Christians and most non-Christians break the Ten Commandments. When Jesus explained the spiritual connotations of the law he was speaking of the spiritual inward man side of keeping the law. Note that the thou shalt not kill now incorporates not being angry with ones brother, and looking at a woman with lust in ones eye is committing adultery, and divorcing ones spouse is adultery, etc. I would expect that all ten commandments now have a FULLER meaning than they had prior to God's indwelling within believers, what do you think?


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Matthew 5:17-48

Solo