Worthy - are we sinners redeemed by Christ but always worthless

[jerry63935]

so suddenly other than the rebuttal replies we have dropped the ball. this is a subject that needs discussed

 

[JLB]

Someone who commits sin is a sinner, is he not? We all, even the saints, continue to commit sin. This is why i think it is important to define what is meant when using the term "sinner."

Someone who practices sin.


JLB

 

[JLB]

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. 1 John 5:17

here the scriptures in context WIP is talking about
1 John 3:5-7 King James Version (KJV)
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

hcsb 3:6 John was aware that Christians sin (2:1). They can receive forgiveness through Jesus' death (1:7) as they confess their sins (1:9). By everyone who sins has not seen Him or known Him, John had in mind flagrant sin by false "believers" whose confession of Jesus was false (2:23), whose love was set on the world rather than God (2:15), and whose obedience was lacking (2:4). Jesus Himself warned about people who called Him "Lord" and did great things in His name, but ultimately were not genuine disciples (Mt 7:21-23). [Holman Bible Editorial Staff (2018). The HCSB Study Bible. B&H Publishing Group. Retrieved from https://app.wordsearchbible.com]

Does not continue to sin. Both the TEV and the NIV bring out the fact that the Greek uses the present continuous tense. All Christians sin on the spur of the moment (1 John 1:8-10). But Christians do not purposely go on sinning continuously!!! See 1 John 3:9. But whoever continues. "The one who makes a habit of sin has never really seen Him, even though he may have seen Christ as a human being, and does not know either His character or His will, as the Holy One!"

The Bible Study New Testament
personally i lean in agreement with Does not continue to sin.

Good scriptures.



I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16



Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

• I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Walk in the Spirit,

iyo what is walk.

 

[JLB]

iyo what is walk.

Walk = Lifestyle

Our Christian walk; our lifestyle.


JLB

 

[WIP]

Someone who practices sin.


JLB

By this do you mean intentional sin and unintentional sin does not count?

 

[JLB]

By this do you mean intentional sin and unintentional sin does not count?

So I understand what you mean, could you give me some examples of a person unintentionally murdering someone or unintentionally committing adultery or lying or stealing.

I want to try and keep things biblical, and I know we all see things differently, however we all have our own experiences and challenges we must face.


JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Walk = Lifestyle

Our Christian walk; our lifestyle.


JLB

part of it yes. the walk is the leading of the spirit. being sensitive to what God would have us do . which takes discipline and discipleship by abiding in him .

 

[JLB]

part of it yes. the walk is the leading of the spirit. being sensitive to what God would have us do . which takes discipline and discipleship by abiding in him .

The fruit of the Spirit is self control.

This is a process for each of us to grow and mature in.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:1-14




JLB

 

[JLB]

By this do you mean intentional sin and unintentional sin does not count?

Here‘s a passage that I believe may bring us closer in our understanding.



But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 7


I would like to point out from this verse, that we can “walk in the light as He is in the light“, but still need to be cleansed from sin.



JLB

 

[WIP]

So I understand what you mean, could you give me some examples of a person unintentionally murdering someone or unintentionally committing adultery or lying or stealing.

I want to try and keep things biblical, and I know we all see things differently, however we all have our own experiences and challenges we must face.


JLB

I don't think it is possible to unintentionally murder, commit adultery, lie, or steal. You responded to my response that there seems to be a misunderstanding about what it means to be a sinner by simply saying, "Someone who practices sin." What is the difference? How does your response clarify the definition of a sinner? The way I see it, we either sin or we do not sin.

 

[WIP]

Here‘s a passage that I believe may bring us closer in our understanding.



But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 7


I would like to point out from this verse, that we can “walk in the light as He is in the light“, but still need to be cleansed from sin.



JLB

Now I think we might be getting somewhere for me. But now the questions is, in order to cleanse us from sin, we would have to be guilty of sin first, right? Otherwise, there is nothing to cleanse us from.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Now I think we might be getting somewhere for me. But now the questions is, in order to cleanse us from sin, we would have to be guilty of sin first, right? Otherwise, there is nothing to cleanse us from.

No, it's not about God saying we're guilty. It's about us hearing the Spirit's guidance and obeying. He is transforming us into the likeness of himself.

2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

This is how one walks with God. Genuine repentance and doing his will. The sin has been paid for, now we know how to walk with God and we do it.

 

[JLB]

I don't think it is possible to unintentionally murder, commit adultery, lie, or steal. You responded to my response that there seems to be a misunderstanding about what it means to be a sinner by simply saying, "Someone who practices sin." What is the difference? How does your response clarify the definition of a sinner? The way I see it, we either sin or we do not sin.

If I put a tourniquet on a person who was is bleeding, that doesn’t make me a doctor; a person who practices medicine.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Now I think we might be getting somewhere for me. But now the questions is, in order to cleanse us from sin, we would have to be guilty of sin first, right? Otherwise, there is nothing to cleanse us from.

Exactly my point.

We can walk in the light, but still need to be forgiven and cleansed of unrighteousness.


I would say the difference is one person continues to walk with God in the light even if they sin, they just confess their sin and are cleansed and keep going.


The other person doesn’t confess their sin, and begins to hide from God, no longer walking in the light.


This is the difference in wander away from Him and becoming lost, or just repenting and being forgiven.

Another scenario might be unforgiveness.

All of this is addressed in Matthew 18 -

The parable of the lost sheep as well as the unforgiving servant.



JLB

 

[WIP]

If I put a tourniquet on a person who was is bleeding, that doesn’t make me a doctor; a person who practices medicine.


JLB

That seems to be a poor analogy because a doctor is licensed to practice medicine. We are never licensed to practice sin, are we?

 

[WIP]

No, it's not about God saying we're guilty.

No it isn't. We are either guilty of sin or we aren't. What you wrote here, to me rings of our society's use of the term guilty, which I disagree with to a point. In our society often times we think we are guilty only if we get caught and convicted. But I believe that when it comes to our sin, we are guilty of committing it even if we don't get caught and convicted. In the same way I have never supported the determination of a suspect as being not guilty by plea of insanity. I believe the true verdict should be guilty but found insane because he/she is guilty of committing the crime but it has been determined he/she was not of right mind the time.

 

[LovethroughDove]

No it isn't. We are either guilty of sin or we aren't. What you wrote here, to me rings of our society's use of the term guilty, which I disagree with to a point. In our society often times we think we are guilty only if we get caught and convicted. But I believe that when it comes to our sin, we are guilty of committing it even if we don't get caught and convicted. In the same way I have never supported the determination of a suspect as being not guilty by plea of insanity. I believe the true verdict should be guilty but found insane because he/she is guilty of committing the crime but it has been determined he/she was not of right mind the time.

Like I've stated on other threads, I'm not good with words. I think it's cause I'm just lazy.

We have throughout scripture "freedom in Christ".
The freedom is knowing I am not going to be judged by the law. But then we become a slave to righteousness and I'm okay with that.

Romans 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

I was trying to express before the "not guilty" because of the freedom Christ gives us.

 

[Edward]

Do you know or have you ever heard of someone, except Jesus, that has not, does not, or will not sin? Scripture also says there is no one that is righteous. How do we reconcile these seemingly contradictions?

It's in Romans 7
Or do you not know, brothers[a]—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives? 2 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies she is released from the law of marriage.[b] 3 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man she is not an adulteress.

4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.[c]

The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.../

 

[WIP]

Like I've stated on other threads, I'm not good with words. I think it's cause I'm just lazy.

We have throughout scripture "freedom in Christ".
The freedom is knowing I am not going to be judged by the law. But then we become a slave to righteousness and I'm okay with that.

Romans 6:22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.

I was trying to express before the "not guilty" because of the freedom Christ gives us.

Yes, we are set free from the condemnation of the law but we are not set free from obedience to the law.