Would Hitler been saved if he turned into Jesus?

[reba]

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Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Aardverk]

There is absolutely no way Hitler was a Christian.
There is absolutely no way to reconcile what he did with the gospel.

On your second point, I think everyone will agree with you.

On your first point, he was obviously a very bad Christian and clearly a cultish one being selective in what he accepted and rejected - but we all do that to some extent. He would have accepted most of the Nicene Creed and most of this forum's Statement of Faith. The only thing he really had problems with was the OT and he is certainly not alone in that!

He called himself a Christian, over and over again and repeated called on action in God's name.
His army and the population of Germany were about 95% Christian.
His hero and that of the Nazi party was Martin Luther.
His Reichskonkordat with the pope guaranteed the freedom of priests.
When the pope removed his ban on membership of the Nazi party a huge number of Catholics joined up, including priests.
Christian symbols were used throughout the party and the armed forces.
The glowing eulogy from his friend General Franco refers to Hitler's work as a good Christian.
etc.
etc.

We can try to dismiss the idea of Hitler being a Christian because we disapprove of him but that will not change the facts that he and the German population and the Catholic church regarded him as a Christian. No one, at the time, claimed that he was not a Christian, this idea has only grown in recent years presumably because any association with Hitler is embarrassing.

Hitler was a Christian, simply a very bad one; probably the worst one ever to exist. Don't forget that we have always had good and bad Christians and good and bad atheists. That will never change and neither will history change just because a few living people wish to ignore history to dissociate themselves from that awful man.

Hitler perverted humanity as well as Christianity. You can call him a bad Christian or a Christian heretic but you certainly can't call him an atheist.

 

[stovebolts]

Aardverk

To your point, perhaps many have a false view of what Christianity is supposed to look like.

I think Jesus said it best,

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We are not called to judge, but we can certainly be fruit pickers! By Biblical definition, as Christian is one who follows "The Way" of Christ. It's about how one lives and clearly, Hitler was not living "The Way".

So, while Hitler may have touted being a Christian, his deeds spoke otherwise. You see, I can tell you right to your face that I'm a surgeon, but the reality is I know little to nothing about being a surgeon. Because I say I'm a surgeon, does that make me a surgeon? And why would I claim something I know little to nothing about? What advantage would that afford me?

 

[Free]

On your second point, I think everyone will agree with you.

On your first point, he was obviously a very bad Christian and clearly a cultish one being selective in what he accepted and rejected - but we all do that to some extent. He would have accepted most of the Nicene Creed and most of this forum's Statement of Faith. The only thing he really had problems with was the OT and he is certainly not alone in that!

He called himself a Christian, over and over again and repeated called on action in God's name.
His army and the population of Germany were about 95% Christian.
His hero and that of the Nazi party was Martin Luther.
His Reichskonkordat with the pope guaranteed the freedom of priests.
When the pope removed his ban on membership of the Nazi party a huge number of Catholics joined up, including priests.
Christian symbols were used throughout the party and the armed forces.
The glowing eulogy from his friend General Franco refers to Hitler's work as a good Christian.
etc.
etc.

We can try to dismiss the idea of Hitler being a Christian because we disapprove of him but that will not change the facts that he and the German population and the Catholic church regarded him as a Christian. No one, at the time, claimed that he was not a Christian, this idea has only grown in recent years presumably because any association with Hitler is embarrassing.

Hitler was a Christian, simply a very bad one; probably the worst one ever to exist. Don't forget that we have always had good and bad Christians and good and bad atheists. That will never change and neither will history change just because a few living people wish to ignore history to dissociate themselves from that awful man.

Hitler perverted humanity as well as Christianity. You can call him a bad Christian or a Christian heretic but you certainly can't call him an atheist.

Because the second point is true, so is the first. Calling oneself a Christian does not make one a Christian, nor does going to church, nor does using Christian symbols, etc. That is something that, for some reason, atheists never seem to understand. A true Christian follows the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Jesus himself says that the mark of a true Christian is his love for others and that we are to judge a tree by it's fruit.

I've never called Hitler an atheist and I never will. His beliefs were very syncretic, coming from a variety of spiritual beliefs and other philosophies.

 

[Spring Waters]

There is absolutely no way Hitler was a Christian. There is absolutely no way to reconcile what he did with the gospel. It is significant that the source you give is an atheist one.

But had he actually turned to Christ in true repentance, yes, he would have been saved.

The atheist site is significant because many people consider Hitler was an atheist. Which he was not. He was a Christian. As he believed. And since we're speaking of Hitler's beliefs what is significant also is that the only thing that mattered in his marking history, was that he believed himself to be Christian.

There's no promoting atheism in that site link. Rather, there's correcting ignorance about Hitlers religious affiliations in that he was not atheist. He was Christian. The site has a vested interest in correcting the slur against atheists world wide, when people align Hitler with being an atheist because they simply refuse to accept he declared boldly that he was a Christian.

If killing people due to their race and religion is not an example of Godly fruit or Christianity, we'd best be aware we're indicting the Crusades and every bloody Christian war/conflict, when that is stated and believed.

 

[stovebolts]

If killing people due to their race and religion is not an example of Godly fruit or Christianity, we'd best be aware we're indicting the Crusades and every bloody Christian war/conflict, when that is stated and believed.

I do not support the Crusades or any war that tries to extend it's boarders by physical force for it's own internal gain. If we are to learn one thing from the Bible in this matter, we should learn that trying to build an empire with deadly force is never God's way. Solomon is s keen example of this as it is the only time recorded in world history post flood where there was world peace. The empire was short lived and clearly, the way Solomon went about it was against God's commandments.

 

[Knotical]

For one, we cannot, in good conscience, judge whether or not Hitler was a Christian. We can, however, look at his fruits and come to a conclusion that he did not live a Christian (Christ-like) lifestyle.

Second, I am thinking many here are forgetting how God facilitated the Hebrews securing the promised land for themselves in the first place. God ordered the destruction of whole nations in that conquest.

It really all comes down to motive, and what would fall within God's will. Personally, I believe the Crusades were an ill-advised venture that was, on one level, used for the purpose of nobles and knights of Europe to gain honor and glory for themselves, not to "free the holy land". For if that was a God ordained conquest the European Christian Crusaders would have held onto the kingdom of Jerusalem a lot longer than they did.

 

[Free]

The atheist site is significant because many people consider Hitler was an atheist. Which he was not.

No, he wasn't, but one has to remember that atheists are quick to point out what they perceive are good reasons for not believing in Christ and Hitler is often used. For all the reason they claim to have, this is at least one instance where they throw reason out the window. Hence the issue with using an atheist site to promote the utterly false idea that Hitler was a Christian.

He was a Christian. As he believed. And since we're speaking of Hitler's beliefs what is significant also is that the only thing that mattered in his marking history, was that he believed himself to be Christian.

No, he was not a Christian and a Christian ought to know this. Believing oneself to be a Christian does not mean that that is the case.

There's no promoting atheism in that site link.

I never suggested there was.

Rather, there's correcting ignorance about Hitlers religious affiliations in that he was not atheist. He was Christian. The site has a vested interest in correcting the slur against atheists world wide, when people align Hitler with being an atheist because they simply refuse to accept he declared boldly that he was a Christian.

If you want to correct ignorance of Hitler's beliefs, go to a proper source so that it will also correct the ignorance that Hitler was a Christian.

If killing people due to their race and religion is not an example of Godly fruit or Christianity, we'd best be aware we're indicting the Crusades and every bloody Christian war/conflict, when that is stated and believed.

It very much is not an example of Godly fruit or Christianity. I find it highly disturbing, to put it mildly, that someone claiming to be a Christian would think otherwise.

 

[from dust to life]

If Hitler wouldn't have died and he found Jesus would he been saved? He did alot of terrible work but if he had turned his face to Jesus, would Jesus forgive him?

That is what the Bible teaches, it is what Jesus came for, to save sinners.

I mean just imagine one day as the war is coming to close, bombs falling everywhere and Hitler goes out on to the street as people are rushing for cover, falls on his knees and with tears and trembling says: "Lord Jesus, please forgive me for I have sinned!"

I mean for me, that would be a beautiful sight to behold. Like the woman who was caught committing adultery and was brought before Jesus, ... "I did not come for the righteous, but sinners for repentance, ... he that is forgiven much, loves much, ... it is the sick that needs healing, ... " and so on, right?

Just as Knotical wrote; "If he was truly repentant and asked forgiveness for his sins, then according the Bible God would forgive him."... I agree.

 

[jasoncran]

insulting. spring. do you realise that jews hate the rcc over hitler. do you realise that because of that statement of lying that jews buy it and blame christ for the shoah?i have to put my dad in his place when he says this stuff.

 

[Nick]

If killing people due to their race and religion is not an example of Godly fruit or Christianity, we'd best be aware we're indicting the Crusades and every bloody Christian war/conflict, when that is stated and believed.

Of course.

 

[Aardverk]

There is a well known truism - 'victory is written by the victors'.

If Hitler had not been defeated, the discussion would now be between Hitler's so called 'Pure Christianity' and any other form of Christianity. If discussion was allowed!

It is worth remembering that the last time Christianity was largely 're-written' was by the emergence of Protestantism largely influenced by the so called 'heretic' and anti-semite, Martin Luther. That change was paid for by many millions of deaths in a series of long and bloody wars. The Protestants effectively won, Catholicism was pushed out of much of Europe and the power of 'The Holy Roman Empire' was decimated. The warring only stopped when virtually every European country was bankrupt and starving.

We still have extremists referring to the Pope as the 'anti-Christ' and claiming that Catholics are not true Christians! Nor, presumably, do those extremists regard Orthodox Christians (etc) as 'true Christians'. Presumably this is just because they believe something slightly different!

I have no axe to grind for or against any denomination, I just wish to remind people that we all regard ourselves as Christians (if we wish to) regardless of what we actually believe and how we worship. In that sense, Hitler was undoubtedly a Christian - just not the same sort as you or me.

Would he have been saved if he repented? I really doubt it.

 

[Knotical]

There is a well known truism - 'victory is written by the victors'.

If Hitler had not been defeated, the discussion would now be between Hitler's so called 'Pure Christianity' and any other form of Christianity. If discussion was allowed!

It is worth remembering that the last time Christianity was largely 're-written' was by the emergence of Protestantism largely influenced by the so called 'heretic' and anti-semite, Martin Luther. That change was paid for by many millions of deaths in a series of long and bloody wars. The Protestants effectively won, Catholicism was pushed out of much of Europe and the power of 'The Holy Roman Empire' was decimated. The warring only stopped when virtually every European country was bankrupt and starving.

We still have extremists referring to the Pope as the 'anti-Christ' and claiming that Catholics are not true Christians! Nor, presumably, do those extremists regard Orthodox Christians (etc) as 'true Christians'. Presumably this is just because they believe something slightly different!

I have no axe to grind for or against any denomination, I just wish to remind people that we all regard ourselves as Christians (if we wish to) regardless of what we actually believe and how we worship. In that sense, Hitler was undoubtedly a Christian - just not the same sort as you or me.

Would he have been saved if he repented? I really doubt it.

Are you saying you doubt he would have repented, or that he would have been forgiven and saved? Quite the bold assertion either way. Do you have the authority to make this kind of judgement?

 

[Aardverk]

Are you saying you doubt he would have repented, or that he would have been forgiven and saved? Quite the bold assertion either way. Do you have the authority to make this kind of judgement?

My meaning was that even if he truly repented, I 'really doubt' he would have been saved.

OK, a 'bold assertion' - that's fair enough. It is doubtless influenced by my hope for fair-play to all his victims. I may not be right but I can still, nevertheless, 'really doubt it' - which is all I said.

I don't think you can fairly call my 'doubt' a 'judgement' - do you? It is not as if I was making an unequivocal statement.

 

[stovebolts]

Aardverk,

Great history lesson. But what we also see is how Rome became a power house abusing the authority it had. I believe this is one reason why our forefathers wrote what they wrote in regard to the separation of church and state. In short, the church has no business being in political power...

 

[Knotical]

My meaning was that even if he truly repented, I 'really doubt' he would have been saved.

OK, a 'bold assertion' - that's fair enough. It is doubtless influenced by my hope for fair-play to all his victims. I may not be right but I can still, nevertheless, 'really doubt it' - which is all I said.

I don't think you can fairly call my 'doubt' a 'judgement' - do you? It is not as if I was making an unequivocal statement.

So, God should only forgive and grant salvation based on what one person has done to other people? I don't remember seeing that kind of condition put on forgiveness and salvation in the Bible.

 

[Blev]

-- Calling oneself a Christian does not make one a Christian, nor does going to church, nor does using Christian symbols, etc. That is something that, for some reason, atheists never seem to understand. A true Christian follows the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Jesus himself says that the mark of a true Christian is his love for others and that we are to judge a tree by it's fruit. --

Correct.
Hitler was in the Catholic Church but being a Catholic does not necessarily make a person a Christian any more than being a Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist or Baptist makes one a Christian. What makes them a Christian is if they have been changed in their heart by the Spirit of God. When a person is truly born again they will live a life pleasing to God because they love Him. There are lost people in every church. Its an individual, personal relationship with God, not just being a member of a certain church or denomination. It doesn't matter what they call themselves, that doesn't make it true

 

[Classik]

Hitler might have been Christian - not bornagain, maybe

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hitler might have been Christian - not bornagain, maybe

If he wasn't born-again, he wasn't Christian.

 

[Classik]

By 'Christian', in my context, I mean one who lived/lives in a Christian community (and refusing to associate himself/herself with Islam etc) and probably not born again (according to John 3:16)