What is The Baptism that saves us now?

[Runmyramble]

...

 

[Runmyramble]

....Let's all look at Gal 5:16-25

I use net.bible.org classic version

 

[Hopeful]

It's not in the best translations. Simply because it's in the KJV doesn't make it valid Scripture. And I agree, it is redundant.

I have yet to see a newer interpretation be as completely in agreement with the will of God as the KJV of the bible.

 

[Hopeful]

....Let's all look at Gal 5:16-25

I use net.bible.org classic version

OK....?

 

[jaybo]

I have yet to see a newer interpretation be as completely in agreement with the will of God as the KJV of the bible.

That's just your personal opinion. I disagree. I think that modern translations, written in the language that you and I use daily in our thoughts and written and oral communication expresses God's words far better than a centuries-old translation of ancient manuscripts.

 

[Hopeful]

That's just your personal opinion. I disagree. I think that modern translations, written in the language that you and I use daily in our thoughts and written and oral communication expresses God's words far better than a centuries-old translation of ancient manuscripts.

It isn't just my opinion.
It is my findings over many years of study.

 

[jaybo]

It isn't just my opinion.
It is my findings over many years of study.

Well, I can say the same thing. I have studied and read the Bible for many years, including my studying full time in Bible school.

There is no doubt that modern translations are more accurate than the KJV which is a) based on a limited set of manuscripts, b) ordered by a secular king to reinforce his biased view of Christianity, and c) utilized a more primitive art/science of translation of the secular languages.

What have your many years of study produced that contradicts that?

 

[Runmyramble]

Where did JLB go? Waiting to see if He's responding to hopeful's last post

 

[Hopeful]

Well, I can say the same thing. I have studied and read the Bible for many years, including my studying full time in Bible school.

There is no doubt that modern translations are more accurate than the KJV which is a) based on a limited set of manuscripts, b) ordered by a secular king to reinforce his biased view of Christianity, and c) utilized a more primitive art/science of translation of the secular languages.

What have your many years of study produced that contradicts that?

It would be a derail to carry on.
Please start (another) thread on KJV vs. All other versions of the bible.

 

[Hopeful]

Where did JLB go? Waiting to see if He's responding to hopeful's last post

The post numbers are in the upper-right corner.
Which post of mine are you referring to?

 

[JLB]

Where did JLB go? Waiting to see if He's responding to hopeful's last post

Which post number are you referring to?

 

[Runmyramble]

I have yet to see a newer interpretation be as completely in agreement with the will of God as the KJV of the bible.

Which post number are you referring to?

I think 854 was hopeful's last post

 

[JLB]

As you allege sin in your "whole body", your eyes must be "full of darkness".

I allege nothing.

I gave you the words of Jesus Christ.

Each of us has the same responsibility to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of flesh and spirit. This is accomplished by us being empowered to do these things by the Spirit.

Your claim, is this was accomplished at water baptism, whereby as you claim, our physical body was “born again” sinless.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Here is step number #1 for every born again, water baptized Christian.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

I allege nothing.

I gave you the words of Jesus Christ.

Each of us has the same responsibility to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of flesh and spirit. This is accomplished by us being empowered to do these things by the Spirit.

Your claim, is this was accomplished at water baptism, whereby as you claim, our physical body was “born again” sinless.


Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1


For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Here is step number #1 for every born again, water baptized Christian.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



JLB

That is where I do not agree with hopeful...on the Water Baptism aspect.
I think , and you can correct me if I'm wrong Hopeful , that she/he believes

That it is to live or purify oneself by the Spirit...when you obey the command to be baptized... "in water".

Reading 1 Peter 3...I looked @that aspect at one time....but I do not think that is what is meant....seeing Mark 16's version is not detailed like Matthew 28's version of the event.

Reading 1 Peter 3 and looking over a commentary recently ...I see something...and I am no English student.

In verse 18: for Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Hit the wrong button will continue in next......post

Part 1

 

[JLB]

That is where I do not agree with hopeful...on the Water Baptism aspect.
I think , and you can correct me if I'm wrong @Hopeful , that she/he believes

Hopeful believes that a person, their physical body “literally dies” when they go under the water, in which their physical body is born again sinless.

This is the foundation of the “sinless perfection” doctrinal belief system.


The emphasis is placed on the natural water of baptism rather than the blood Jesus Christ shed for us, and the Holy Spirit by which we are empowered to live in dominion over the sin that dwells in our flesh.


Hopeful further believes that is a Christian ever commits one sin in there entire life, they were never really saved in the first place.


He views the following scriptures as pertaining to unsaved people —


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


When confronted with the obvious “we” and “our“ pronouns, which John included himself in his statement, Hopeful dismisses this as pertaining to sinners; the unsaved.


Then when we expand the context to include the surrounding verses…


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 1:8-2:2

• He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

The Christian and the world finds forgiveness in the blood of Jesus.


Here we have the unmistakable, irrefutable doctrinal statement from John that if a Christian should sin, then they can indeed confess their sin, and be forgiven.


The danger of the “sinless perfection” doctrine lies in the fact that if a person does sin, they believe they were never really saved, and eventually they just give up.

Also, they see no need in the daily “take up your cross” command, which involves being filled with the Spirit and walking according to the the Spirit, so that we don’t fall into the trap of…so that you do not do the things that you wish.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Note the very distinct difference in what scripture teaches and what Hopeful teaches.


Scripture —

Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.


Hopeful —

Walk in the Spirit get water baptized and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.




JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

That is where I do not agree with hopeful...on the Water Baptism aspect.
I think , and you can correct me if I'm wrong Hopeful , that she/he believes

That it is to live or purify oneself by the Spirit...when you obey the command to be baptized... "in water".

Reading 1 Peter 3...I looked @that aspect at one time....but I do not think that is what is meant....seeing Mark 16's version is not detailed like Matthew 28's version of the event.

Reading 1 Peter 3 and looking over a commentary recently ...I see something...and I am no English student.

In verse 18: for Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Now verse 19 starts off with "by", verse 20 starts off with "which"
Those are all prepositions which give details to verse 18....

So what then is the like fugure?
I can see it as verse 18.
for Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison
Now skip on to verse 21...^^^^^^^^^^^^
The like figure (my words-QUICKENED BY THE SPIRIT)whereunto even baptism (IMMERSION )does also now save us "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


So the immersion is into His resurrection(life itself) sounds like God...(for God is in Christ)

For the answer of a good conscience before God is life from the dead...

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

God is not the God of the dead but the living.

Yall tell me what you think...

 

[JLB]

Now verse 19 starts off with "by", verse 20 starts off with "which"
Those are all prepositions which give details to verse 18....

So what then is the like fugure?
I can see it as verse 18.
for Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison
Now skip on to verse 21...^^^^^^^^^^^^
The like figure (my words-QUICKENED BY THE SPIRIT)whereunto even baptism (IMMERSION )does also now save us "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:


So the immersion is into His resurrection(life itself) sounds like God...(for God is in Christ)

For the answer of a good conscience before God is life from the dead...

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

God is not the God of the dead but the living.

Yall tell me what you think...

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:18


Being quickened by the Spirit refers to being “made alive”; resurrected from the dead.


Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive, resurrected from the dead by the Spirit.


We also will be “quickened” resurrected from the dead, at His coming.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23


All the Church will all be “clothed with immortality”, be resurrected from the dead, at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

• the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

JLB

 

[Runmyramble]

....

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Peter 3:18


Being quickened by the Spirit refers to being “made alive”; resurrected from the dead.


Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive, resurrected from the dead by the Spirit.


We also will be “quickened” resurrected from the dead, at His coming.


But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:20-23


All the Church will all be “clothed with immortality”, be resurrected from the dead, at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

• the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them

JLB

The First resurrection is now....we can be in the presence of God now....and that's what I see it referring to....

 

[Hopeful]

I allege nothing.
I gave you the words of Jesus Christ.
Each of us has the same responsibility to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of flesh and spirit. This is accomplished by us being empowered to do these things by the Spirit.

Then why do you insist the sin is still there?

Your claim, is this was accomplished at water baptism, whereby as you claim, our physical body was “born again” sinless.

Yes, as I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, after my death and burial with Him.
Dead is dead.
A new creature emerged from my grave.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Do you have any verses stating that the old, crucified flesh, still lives?
It is written..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
It is only those who are not in Christ who still is an old creature.

Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

Who is he talking to?
A church full of posers still walking in the flesh and not in the Spirit.
Unrepentant, unreborn, unregenerated adulterers, covetous, separatists.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12

I am glad I don't believe your POV that I must continue to walk in that flesh.
And its "keep dead the deeds of he body"...mortify them.

Here is step number #1 for every born again, water baptized Christian.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

That is one of the first steps alright, confession.
After or followed by repentance from sin: a permanent turn from wickedness and unto God.
Then water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins: killing and burying the old man of sin and being raised with Christ as a new creature.
Do these things, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
A Spirit that will not reside in a polluted temple.

But you say the "temple" can't be cleansed?

 

[Hopeful]

That is where I do not agree with hopeful...on the Water Baptism aspect.
I think , and you can correct me if I'm wrong Hopeful , that she/he believes

That it is to live or purify oneself by the Spirit...when you obey the command to be baptized... "in water".

Reading 1 Peter 3...I looked @that aspect at one time....but I do not think that is what is meant....seeing Mark 16's version is not detailed like Matthew 28's version of the event.

Reading 1 Peter 3 and looking over a commentary recently ...I see something...and I am no English student.

In verse 18: for Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the spirit 19 by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison

Hit the wrong button will continue in next......post

Part 1

If you are reborn of God's perfect seed, how can you be made more pure?