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What is The Baptism that saves us now?

JLB said:
You have never, not once provided a scripture that's says our flesh is born again.
That our flesh is born of the Spirit.
Click to expand...
Jesus said it in John 3:5-6..."Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
The new man is born of the Spirit.
The old man was destroyed..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
The body of sins has been "put off"..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)
JLB said:
Where is the scripture that says our flesh, our physical body is born again?
Click to expand...
Read above.
I will add this..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: " (1 Joh 3:9-10)
The fruit determines the Father.
 
JLB said:
The word of God plainly says to water baptized Christians —


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


  • do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it


Here is my question to you, Hopeful —

What is it in the mortal body of these Water Baptized Christians in the Church of Rome, that Paul is warning them not to obey?
Click to expand...
Nothing.
He has warned them not to let sin in.
He adds in verse 16..."Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"
And in 18..."Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness."
And in 22..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

Why do you not believe we can resist every temptation?
A better question may be...What power does skin and bones have that it can commit sin without your mind's initialization?
The mind tells the skin and bones what to do, not the other way around.
 
Hopeful said:
Jesus said it in John 3:5-6..."Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
The new man is born of the Spirit.
The old man was destroyed..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
The body of sins has been "put off"..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)
Click to expand...

Nothing here about our physical body being born again by the Spirit.
 
Hopeful said:
Jesus said it in John 3:5-6..."Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
The new man is born of the Spirit.
The old man was destroyed..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
The body of sins has been "put off"..."In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" (Col 2:11)

Read above.
I will add this..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: " (1 Joh 3:9-10)
The fruit determines the Father.
Click to expand...


Nothing here about our physical body being born again by the Spirit.
 
Hopeful said:
Nothing.
He has warned them not to let sin in.
Click to expand...

More denial, while your unable to provide any scripture anywhere in the Bible that teaches us our physical body is born again by the Spirit.


Nothing?

Sorry but maybe you either didn’t read what Paul wrote, or maybe you just don’t understand what he wrote.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Paul plainly tells these water baptized Christian‘s, to not let sin in their body reign.

How can you obey something that isn’t in your body?

These two statements command the same exact thing:

  • Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
  • Therefore do not let sin in your mortal body reign, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Again, why would Paul exhort us to not obey something in our mortal body, that isn’t really there?





JLB
 
JLB said:
Nothing here about our physical body being born again by the Spirit.
Click to expand...
If the old man has been killed, (Rom 6:6), and the body of sin has been circumcised, (Col 2:11), it no longer is a factor in the reborn's life.
The new creature is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), and quickened by the Holy Spirit, (Rom 8:11).
It is written..."So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:8-9)

Are you still "in the flesh"?
I am not, thanks be to God.
 
JLB said:
More denial, while your unable to provide any scripture anywhere in the Bible that teaches us our physical body is born again by the Spirit.


Nothing?

Sorry but maybe you either didn’t read what Paul wrote, or maybe you just don’t understand what he wrote.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Paul plainly tells these water baptized Christian‘s, to not let sin in their body reign.

How can you obey something that isn’t in your body?

These two statements command the same exact thing:

  • Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
  • Therefore do not let sin in your mortal body reign, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Again, why would Paul exhort us to not obey something in our mortal body, that isn’t really there?
Click to expand...
You are still misreading it.
"Do not let sin in." (Rom 6:12)
"For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:7)
How can sin still be in your skin and bones if you have been freed from it?
 
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Hopeful said:
If the old man has been killed, (Rom 6:6), and the body of sin has been circumcised, (Col 2:11), it no longer is a factor in the reborn's life.
The new creature is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, (Rom 6:4), and quickened by the Holy Spirit, (Rom 8:11).
It is written..."So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:8-9)

Are you still "in the flesh"?
I am not, thanks be to God.
Click to expand...

Still waiting for a scripture that says our flesh, our physical body is born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


  • That which is born of the flesh is flesh

  • that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
 
Hopeful said:
You are still misreading it.
"Do not let sin in." (Rom 6:12)
Click to expand...

The verse does not say… do not let sin in.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Do not let sin in your mortal body reign, that you should obey it…


We are not to allow the sin in our mortal body “rule over” us so that we obey it.

The way we accomplish this is by the power of the Spirit, enabling and empowering us to walk in dominion over the sin that is in our body.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16




JLB
 
So What have I got out of all this?

I would say a head ache..ouch
Information overload
JLB said:
Still waiting for a scripture that says our flesh, our physical body is born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


  • That which is born of the flesh is flesh

  • that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Click to expand...

JLB said:
The verse does not say… do not let sin in.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


Do not let sin in your mortal body reign, that you should obey it…


We are not to allow the sin in our mortal body “rule over” us so that we obey it.

The way we accomplish this is by the power of the Spirit, enabling and empowering us to walk in dominion over the sin that is in our body.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16




JLB
Click to expand...
Do not let (anything that is not from faith) in your mortal body rule.

So what is in the mortal body? habits of being under the bondage of sin(being away from God). Bondage because we were yet without life through the reconciliation by his blood.
 
Runmyramble said:
So What have I got out of all this?

I would say a head ache..ouch
Information overload



Do not let (anything that is not from faith) in your mortal body rule.

So what is in the mortal body? habits of being under the bondage of sin(being away from God). Bondage because we were yet without life through the reconciliation by his blood.
Click to expand...
Yet what hopeful is saying is that he/she
Does not have a body....Yet one is said to reckon themselves dead...to count no life to the body.
 
Runmyramble said:
So what the arguement really comes down to is what it means to be in Christ.
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So here are my questionable thoughts:

We know a mind set on the Spirit is life and peace-so what does that look like?

It looks like intentional doing things that please God.

My favorite scripture is when Jesus says: I always do what is pleasing to the father and my father never leaves me alone.

So we need to be about our father's business.

Awesome! Yeay argument over lol
 
Ok so here is where I think the confusion comes in...

In the phrase Christ in us the hope of Glory

Compared to any man being in Christ.

So when is Christ in you? My answer when you believe Who He is with intent to follow....

When are you in Christ? When you follow.

So what does that look like in terms of the aspects of Baptism ? And the baptism that saves us now in relation to 1 Peter 3?

Quickening by the Spirit
The Baptism that saves us now is being immersed into the presence of God, the holy trinity (life itself) for life produces life abiding characteristics...



When are we in the presence of God ? Do we have to wait to physically die when the kingdom is in our midst?

Or as is written if you love me you will obey my commands and the father and I will come in and make our abode with you.(don't quote me)

Here is a place where the term "Christ" may be given over to another meaning.

Why doesn't it say if any man be in Christ Jesus, or Jesus Christ?

Yet it is, if anyman be in Christ.
Kjv makes a diff in Jesus Christ, Christ Jesus, and maybe just Christ....why? It gives meaning to what's happened or happening.

Accidently posted without thinking more into it...but I need to do some other things...
 
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JLB said:
Still waiting for a scripture that says our flesh, our physical body is born again by the Spirit.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:6


  • That which is born of the flesh is flesh

  • that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Click to expand...
When you were reborn, were you reborn of the flesh or of the Spirit?
I was reborn of the Spirit, by God's seed.
 
JLB said:
The verse does not say… do not let sin in.
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Do not let sin in your mortal body reign, that you should obey it…
Click to expand...
It doesn't say there is sin in the mortal body either.
If you don't commit sin, it can't reign in you.
JLB said:
We are not to allow the sin in our mortal body “rule over” us so that we obey it.
Click to expand...
What sin is in the new creature that has been reborn of Gods seed?
JLB said:
The way we accomplish this is by the power of the Spirit, enabling and empowering us to walk in dominion over the sin that is in our body.
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
Click to expand...
What a strengthening scripture.
Now then, when you are walking in the Spirit, are you in a skin and bones vessel?
Of course you are.
Are you then walking in the Spirit with a sinful vessel?
I don't think that can happen.

As you are so concerned about having sin in your skin and bones, the flesh, why not do as Jesus recommended in Matt 5:29-30?
It is written..."And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
That seems to be the only recourse of your doctrine.

Or, you could get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, killing the old man of sin, (Rom 6:6), and undergo the circumcision made without hands, (Col 2:11), and cast away the flesh.
 
Runmyramble said:
Yet what hopeful is saying is that he/she
Does not have a body....Yet one is said to reckon themselves dead...to count no life to the body.
Click to expand...
The "body" I have is not mine anymore.
It is the vessel of the Holy Spirit.
Like Pau wrote in Gal 2:20..."I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
JLB thinks there is sin in the vessel of Christ.
I can't agree.
 
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