What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

The Law Is Simple

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Donate View
elijah23 said:
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

When you repent of your sin, your problems disappear. If you haven't tried it already, do it now.
Click to expand...
ok, if that was the case shoot i wouldnt need the cross now would as a JEW i could attend the temple and follow the torah and the prophets and not need jesus.

we cant make it on works. repent yes but we need to get saved first and have that renewed heart. we are saved from the penalty of sin at the cross, and from the power of sin and eventually the body of sin that we posses. salvation is a process . it starts with justification. coming to the lord and praying that he forgives and you confess he is the lord. and then theres the santification( a process that is evidence of a saved soul) that is where we are slowly transformed to his image. then finally the return of the lord where we are transformed to be like him without any death in our flesh.
 
elijah23 said:
The Lord will not allow us to experience absolute peace until we repent of our sin. It is our He who provides us with that peace.
Click to expand...

{8} But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. {9} Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. {10} For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. {11} And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Romans 5:8-11 (NASB)
Click to expand...

We don't defeat sin in our lives through the force of our own will. Sin was defeated at the cross, and the desire to live a Godly life is the fruit of Christ in us.

He gives us peace and assurance that we are His through the Holy Spirit the moment we are reborn so that He can clean up our lives.

Your gospel has it completely backwards.

If anyone had to "get right with God" before they were saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, no one would be saved.
 
Being good is exactly what gets you into heaven.
Click to expand...
Can you quote some scripture to back up this statement Elijah?
Click to expand...
From what I've been able to "get" from his posts, Elijah is presenting a distorted view of Romans 6, specifically:

{16} Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? Romans 6:16 (NASB)

{19} I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. Romans 6:19 (NASB)
Click to expand...
The view Elijah seems to be taking is that we must be righteous to obtain sanctification, and it's through sanctification that we have peace.

The problem with the way he framed his argument is that he seems to believe this righteousness comes from obeying the law, which no one has done or can do.

If I have not presented the case for and against correctly, please feel free to correct me.
 
Stormcrow said:
From what I've been able to "get" from his posts, Elijah is presenting a distorted view of Romans 6, specifically:

The view Elijah seems to be taking is that we must be righteous to obtain sanctification, and it's through sanctification that we have peace.

The problem with the way he framed his argument is that he seems to believe this righteousness comes from obeying the law, which no one has done or can do.

If I have not presented the case for and against correctly, please feel free to correct me.
Click to expand...

For any person to be declared righteous by God it is necessary to obey a law. The law that has been added to the law by Jesus crucifixion.
"It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
"For the law was added so that the trespass (Jesus' crucifixion) might increase." Rom. 5:20
(Previously stated)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jasoncran said:
ok, if that was the case shoot i wouldnt need the cross now would as a JEW i could attend the temple and follow the torah and the prophets and not need jesus.
Click to expand...

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. If he hadn't, Satan could torment us forever because of the sins we've committed.

But Jesus commanded us to stop sinning, and when we do, our problems disappear:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV
 
elijah23 said:
The righteous are those who obey the Lord's commandments.
Click to expand...

Do you perfectly obey God's 10 Commandments? Yes or No? :chin

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 
Truthseeker2012,


Why do you have the nerve to keep asking for "yes or no" answers when you will not answer the same?
 
Stormcrow said:
We don't defeat sin in our lives through the force of our own will. Sin was defeated at the cross, and the desire to live a Godly life is the fruit of Christ in us.
Click to expand...

Yes, we have all sinned, and because of that, we need the cross.

But we need now to stop sinning. Jesus commanded us to do that.
 
Stormcrow said:
From what I've been able to "get" from his posts, Elijah is presenting a distorted view of Romans 6, specifically:

If I have not presented the case for and against correctly, please feel free to correct me.
Click to expand...

I am simply telling you what I have experienced. Jesus commanded us to repent. I found that when I repented of sins I was committing, life became paradise.
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
Do you perfectly obey God's 10 Commandments? Yes or No? :chin

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Click to expand...

Yes, at this moment I believe I do. It wasn't always the case—we’ve all sinned. And tomorrow perhaps I will fail. But Jesus commanded us to be perfect, and we must obey:

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48 RSV
 
TruthSeeker2012 said:
Do you perfectly obey God's 10 Commandments? Yes or No? :chin

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Click to expand...

The Ten Commandments aren't that difficult, are they?
 
reba said:
Truthseeker2012,


Why do you have the nerve to keep asking for "yes or no" answers when you will not answer the same?
Click to expand...

Ask me any Yes or No question and I will give a direct and honest Yes or No answer.

What would you like to ask me?:chin
 
elijah23 said:
Yes, at this moment I believe I do. It wasn't always the case—we’ve all sinned. And tomorrow perhaps I will fail. But Jesus commanded us to be perfect, and we must obey:

You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Matt 5:48 RSV
Click to expand...

The Greek word found in Matthew 5:48 translated "perfect" means "finished, complete, having reached its end," and implies being fully grown or mature.

In addition, we cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other.

Mat 5:48 has nothing to do with becoming SINLESS AND "PERFECT" like Jesus was.

If your definition is correct, then you have not repented because you have not perfectly ceased all your sins, nobody has.

Repentance is a STATE OF MIND, an ATTITUDE, not a behaviour! LIke Paul in Romans 7:15 had repented, but notice he was still sinning terribly, but his attitude towards sin was different, he had REPENTED IN ATTITUDE AND MIND!
 
elijah23 said:
The Ten Commandments aren't that difficult, are they?
Click to expand...

Well, you have claimed you keep the 10 Commandments perfectly and are now sinless, so there's nothing more I can say. But I will let the Bible speak for itself:

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Donations

Total amount
$1,592.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Donate View
Back
Top