The Incarnation, A Sperm or a complete Fetus of Jesus.

[jocor]

Reba, Lets give my thread 7 more days for comments, and if no new evidence shows up, then close it please. If we let it go too long, I'm afraid we'll get some pretty weird opinions.

Actually, I really liked Deborah's #16 post. It spoke to me as very close to the truth. She had other posts that I liked as well. I give her an A+

My opinion would indeed be pretty weird if you could show Scripturally that the Father has blood and that that blood became Yeshua's blood. If not, then your view is pretty weird.

 

[reba]

Wow! Do you actually believe that Jesus' Blood was human? Oh my, since when has human blood ever been sinless, and don't say only in Jesus please. Medical Science even knows that the blood in an infant comes from the father. In this case Jesus' Blood came from His Father.

it was in the beginning

Sorry for the confusion ... 2

Reba, Lets give my thread 7 more days for comments, and if no new evidence shows up, then close it please. If we let it go too long, I'm afraid we'll get some pretty weird opinions.

Actually, I really liked Deborah's #16 post. It spoke to me as very close to the truth. She had other posts that I liked as well. I give her an A+

OK partner :yes


some things we just dont need to know in our heads, only in our hearts...

 

[Chopper]

The Father doesn't have blood. He is a Spirit. Yeshua's blood was sinless because he didn't have a human father.

Jocor, In all of my opinions of the Almighty God, I have tried not to box in God with my finite understanding. You say that God is Spirit and doesn't have Blood. I don't know what you believe is Spirit, I am of the opinion that He is more than just Spirit. God is the Creator of all matter. He speaks matter into existence from nothing. You say that He doesn't have Blood, I say He spoke it into existence and somehow the Holy Spirit got that sinless, divine Blood into the fetus of Jesus.

From what I see of your posts, you don't give God any "parts". I see that God has hands that He used to form Adam from the dust. I see many times in Scripture where God refers to His "right hand". And my favorite is Exodus 33:22 "And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by."
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Hand, and Back Parts, plus a Face? Oh, I see more than just Spirit. And I see a God that nothing is impossible for Him to do.

 

[Chopper]

Sorry for the confusion ... 2


OK partner :yes


some things we just dont need to know in our heads, only in our hearts...

Oh Reba, those just might be the most profound words spoken my man, err, woman.

 

[Chopper]

My opinion would indeed be pretty weird if you could show Scripturally that the Father has blood and that that blood became Yeshua's blood. If not, then your view is pretty weird.

Hmmm, Ok.

 

[Kathi]

There are some things that we will not know until we are in heaven.

 

[Deborah13]

Wouldn't sin corrupt the blood? I was thinking in terms of uncorrupted blood.

I'm not sure what you are asking but I'll give it a shot.....

Imo,
If my blood was tested before I murdered someone would it be different after I murdered someone? No
The things of the flesh are flesh, the things of the spirit are spirit.

But would it corrupt my soul? YES

Can chemicals from toxic waste, chemicals, etc. corrupt the blood? yes

 

[jocor]

I'm not sure what you are asking but I'll give it a shot.....

Imo,
If my blood was tested before I murdered someone would it be different after I murdered someone? No
The things of the flesh are flesh, the things of the spirit are spirit.

But would it corrupt my soul? YES

Can chemicals from toxic waste, chemicals, etc. corrupt the blood? yes

If it is the blood that makes atonement (Lev 17:11), then couldn't any man make the atonement? No. Why? Because all have sinned and are fallen/corrupted/dying. Yeshua's blood is pure/untainted by sin/life. As a result of sin, the life in our blood is dying. It is corrupted and is no longer effective in preserving life.

 

[jocor]

Jocor, In all of my opinions of the Almighty God, I have tried not to box in God with my finite understanding. You say that God is Spirit and doesn't have Blood. I don't know what you believe is Spirit, I am of the opinion that He is more than just Spirit. God is the Creator of all matter. He speaks matter into existence from nothing. You say that He doesn't have Blood, I say He spoke it into existence and somehow the Holy Spirit got that sinless, divine Blood into the fetus of Jesus.

I agree, but if He spoke blood into existence, then that means it did not exist in Him prior to Him speaking it into existence. Therefore, He was already existing without blood. A spirit does not need blood. In fact, a spirit does not have flesh and bones either (Luke 24:39), but is an invisible being.

Yes, He spoke His Son's blood, as well as every other part of him, into existence.

From what I see of your posts, you don't give God any "parts". I see that God has hands that He used to form Adam from the dust. I see many times in Scripture where God refers to His "right hand". And my favorite is Exodus 33:22 "And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by."
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen." Hand, and Back Parts, plus a Face? Oh, I see more than just Spirit. And I see a God that nothing is impossible for Him to do.

They are called anthropomorphisms. They are figures of speech that teach us theological truths about Yahweh on a level we can understand and relate to. When taken literally they are misunderstood. When taken as metaphorical expressions, they help us to comprehend an incomprehensible being. He does not literally have hands or a back.

 

[Chopper]

I agree, but if He spoke blood into existence, then that means it did not exist in Him prior to Him speaking it into existence. Therefore, He was already existing without blood. A spirit does not need blood. In fact, a spirit does not have flesh and bones either (Luke 24:39), but is an invisible being.

Yes, He spoke His Son's blood, as well as every other part of him, into existence.



They are called anthropomorphisms. They are figures of speech that teach us theological truths about Yahweh on a level we can understand and relate to. When taken literally they are misunderstood. When taken as metaphorical expressions, they help us to comprehend an incomprehensible being. He does not literally have hands or a back.

I don't know about that. I'm more literalistic in my understanding. I would rather believe that this God of whom no one has ever seen, who can sit on a throne, have His Son sit on His right side, etc. No, I believe if He says He has, to Moses, that He will show him His back parts, being a literalistic person, I believe He has "Back Parts."

 

[reba]

jocor He bled

 

[th1b.taylor]

Several of us have different opinions of the Incarnation. Some think that the Holy Spirit implanted the sperm of Jesus to enter the Virgin womb of Mary in order to produce the Child Jesus. Or some other theory close to that.

I maintain that the complete Fetus of Immanuel entered the Virgin womb of Mary, and needed nothing from her except a warm womb, and nutrients thru her umbilical cord.

It is a scientific fact that the Blood of an infant is generated in the fetus itself, and the mother contributes nothing for the generation of blood in an infant.

Come on all you budding theologians, what do you believe?

Chopper,
I seldom change position but I do not see the Holy Spirit going livid over this one. I have never considered this form of the miracle until you brought it up but I stand with you, God can do anything and I believe all of Jesus was produce from a complete fetus nurtured to completion by Mary.

 

[reba]

So where does his human side come from... why not just find Him in the cabbage patch :tongue

Gen_3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 

[Chopper]

Chopper,
I seldom change position but I do not see the Holy Spirit going livid over this one. I have never considered this form of the miracle until you brought it up but I stand with you, God can do anything and I believe all of Jesus was produce from a complete fetus nurtured to completion by Mary.

Thanks Bill. You are right. I had never thought of all these implications until I started to really dig into what was going on. As Reba had said even before I started this thread, she said that "the topic should be interesting, very interesting." You are correct in believing that God can do anything! Bravo, you old corn cob.

 

[jocor]

jocor He bled

Yes, Yeshua bled. His Father never bled.

 

[th1b.taylor]

So where does his human side come from... why not just find Him in the cabbage patch :tongue

Gen_3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This will require more study on my part.

 

[Deborah13]

If Jesus was not truly physically Mary's son then He did not come from the lineage of King David and therefore, could not be the Messiah witnessed by the prophets and the law.
For Jesus to be the descendant of David, He had to have the DNA of Mary in His blood.

 

[jocor]

 

[Chopper]

If Jesus was not truly physically Mary's son then He did not come from the lineage of King David and therefore, could not be the Messiah witnessed by the prophets and the law.
For Jesus to be the descendant of David, He had to have the DNA of Mary in His blood.

I'm thinking that the DNA of Jesus' Blood has to be traced thru David to Adam. Adam's blood came from God the Father. Mary's blood and DNA did not at any time enter the fetus of Jesus as I have mentioned before. Adam's blood, once perfect, lost it's perfection because of his sin of disobedience, and therefore passed on imperfect blood to all of mankind. Jesus restored that perfect Blood, because, like Adam who had the God breathed blood in his veins, life is in the Blood. I think that in all our comments, some have forgotten how blood got into mankind in the first placed. Gen. 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Since life is in the Blood, God breathed that life giving Blood into the nostrils of Adam. Where did God get the blood? You'll have to ask Him. Remember, Adam was not a fetus when God formed him from the ground, He was full grown. Some say about thirty years old.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm thinking that the DNA of Jesus' Blood has to be traced thru David to Adam. Adam's blood came from God the Father. Mary's blood and DNA did not at any time enter the fetus of Jesus as I have mentioned before. Adam's blood, once perfect, lost it's perfection because of his sin of disobedience, and therefore passed on imperfect blood to all of mankind. Jesus restored that perfect Blood, because, like Adam who had the God breathed blood in his veins, life is in the Blood. I think that in all our comments, some have forgotten how blood got into mankind in the first placed. Gen. 2:7 "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Since life is in the Blood, God breathed that life giving Blood into the nostrils of Adam. Where did God get the blood? You'll have to ask Him. Remember, Adam was not a fetus when God formed him from the ground, He was full grown. Some say about thirty years old.

Do you have your mother's DNA? yes
How did you get it? Because it was in the cell (gamete) that became the egg.
Do you have your father DNA? yes
How did you get it? Because it was in the cell (gamete) that is the sperm.
Every cell in our body has DNA. That DNA is a combination of our parents DNA.
Each parent contributes 23 chromosomes, they bind to each other in the egg (ovum) and then there are 46 chromosomes, which are needed to form a new human.

No Jesus did not get any of Mary's blood but He did get her DNA, which traces back to King David.
If He didn't then He was/is not the foretold Messiah.
The Bible says that the Messiah would come from the bloodline of King David.
All of us come from Adam and Eve but not all of us come from the bloodline of King David.

Science through myocardial (mother's) DNA has proven that all of us originated from one mother. As Christians we believe that mother was Eve.

God breathed life into Adam. The Hebrew translates rough as soul/spirit not blood.
Truly life is in the blood. Science proved this back in the 1600's. Blood carries all the oxygen, nutrients, hormones, etc. that is needed to sustain the body, the flesh.
Leviticus says,
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Science proved that this statement in Leviticus is true. The flesh, the body, cannot live without blood.

Those animals sacrificed did not just have to give blood, they had to die. Just the blood would not have been sufficient for a temporary covering until the Messiah came.
Jesus' blood is/was truly holy but He had to die in order for our sins to be atoned for.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
He laid down His life.