1689 London Confession

[GodsGrace]

wondering



Right because everything we choose to do whether good or evil God purposed it, mans will is never free from Gods purpose, which He purposed in Himself. All things act, react, according to His purpose and will Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

within the scope of all things is the heart and will of men. Even the bad sinful choices we make, and are accountable for, were from the working after the counsel of His will.

How could God, who is all good, purpose for us to make sinful choices which we then are accountable for, for the working of His will.

Is it possible that God's will is for us to do evil when He decries evil throughout the entire bible?

Ephesians 1:4
4Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.

Paul states that God chose us to be holy and without fault.
How does God want this IF He also decrees that we should sin and be evil?
This is a severe inconsistency.

Ephesians 1:10-13
10And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth.
11Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God,c for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
12God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
13And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his ownd by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.

At the right time God would unite Jews and Gentiles since this was His plan from the beginning.
And in the end Jesus will reign over all - heaven and earth (the new earth).

Gentiles have also heard the good news that God saves.
And WHEN THEY BELIEVED in Christ, God identified them as His own.

This goes against your theory that the "elect" are elect from birth.
Paul states that they are saved WHEN THEY BELIEVED. At this time they were identified as His own.
A person just born cannot believe.

There are at least 2 inconsistencies above.
The bible does not contradict itself.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Re: 2 Thes. 2:1-2

So, why would God cause them to be deceived? They're already lost.

There is no WHY to God doing this or that. WHY involves a cause for God doing this or that. God is the First Cause; He is never and 'effect of a cause' ... He is independent of his creation meaning what they do not affect him (see Job 22:2; Job 41:11; Job 35:7, many more).

When it comes to theodicies people put themselves first; they are anthropocentric rather then God centered in their understanding and explanations. The glory of God, not the happiness of the creature, is the true theodicy of sin.
The following possibly applicable why asking why God does A or B: Romans 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers [arrogantly] back to God and dares to defy Him? Will the thing which is formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

I wonder if @atpollard and @Fastfredy0 would care to address the sentence in blue.

Atpollard has left us.

 

[GodsGrace]

Okay so you replied, thats your right ! Doesnt change a thing I have stated.

We're just talking BF.
We're not going to change each other's minds.

 

[GodsGrace]

Re: 2 Thes. 2:1-2

There is no WHY to God doing this or that. WHY involves a cause for God doing this or that. God is the First Cause; He is never and 'effect of a cause' ... He is independent of his creation meaning what they do not affect him (see Job 22:2; Job 41:11; Job 35:7, many more).

When it comes to theodicies people put themselves first; they are anthropocentric rather then God centered in their understanding and explanations. The glory of God, not the happiness of the creature, is the true theodicy of sin.
The following possibly applicable why asking why God does A or B: Romans 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers [arrogantly] back to God and dares to defy Him? Will the thing which is formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”


Atpollard has left us.

Who's going to go over the 1689 Confession with me?

 

[brightfame52]

How could God, who is all good, purpose for us to make sinful choices which we then are accountable for, for the working of His will.

Is it possible that God's will is for us to do evil when He decries evil throughout the entire bible?

Ephesians 1:4
4Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes.

Paul states that God chose us to be holy and without fault.
How does God want this IF He also decrees that we should sin and be evil?
This is a severe inconsistency.

Ephesians 1:10-13
10And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth.
11Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God,c for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.
12God’s purpose was that we Jews who were the first to trust in Christ would bring praise and glory to God.
13And now you Gentiles have also heard the truth, the Good News that God saves you. And when you believed in Christ, he identified you as his ownd by giving you the Holy Spirit, whom he promised long ago.

At the right time God would unite Jews and Gentiles since this was His plan from the beginning.
And in the end Jesus will reign over all - heaven and earth (the new earth).

Gentiles have also heard the good news that God saves.
And WHEN THEY BELIEVED in Christ, God identified them as His own.

This goes against your theory that the "elect" are elect from birth.
Paul states that they are saved WHEN THEY BELIEVED. At this time they were identified as His own.
A person just born cannot believe.

There are at least 2 inconsistencies above.
The bible does not contradict itself.

Easy, He does it and did it.

 

[brightfame52]

We're just talking BF.
We're not going to change each other's minds.

I dont expect to change anyones mind, thats beyond my feeble ability. Only God changes our minds, by granting us repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

The word repentance here metanoia:

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

 

[GodsGrace]

Re: 2 Thes. 2:1-2

There is no WHY to God doing this or that. WHY involves a cause for God doing this or that. God is the First Cause; He is never and 'effect of a cause' ... He is independent of his creation meaning what they do not affect him (see Job 22:2; Job 41:11; Job 35:7, many more).

Of course we can't understand everything God does. It's not our place.
But He did allow us to know many things about Him.
And....why He did things.

We could start in the Garden and go through...
All the covenants God made with man was to have a relationship with Him.
The entire bible is the story of God and mankind together.

Jeremiah 29:11-14 covers a lot of territory...
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

From the above it's apparent that God has plans, both generally, and personally, and that they are for our well being and not for evil.
We will call on the Lord and He will hear us.
We have the ability to seek Him and find Him.


Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

We should note that what God preplanned is always for a work or an office...
it is never a person for salvation.

When it comes to theodicies people put themselves first; they are anthropocentric rather then God centered in their understanding and explanations. The glory of God, not the happiness of the creature, is the true theodicy of sin.

How are you using the word THODICY?
What do you mean we put ourselves first?
And how is passing over most persons that ever lived a glory to God?
(I really would like to understand this).

The following possibly applicable why asking why God does A or B: Romans 9:20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers [arrogantly] back to God and dares to defy Him? Will the thing which is formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?”

I just will not address Romans 9 - 11 unless it's on a special thread.
I'll just say now that if Romans 9:20 is referring to persons as being lumps of clay that are molded by the Creator, then I don't see how man could be held responsible for ANY of his sins.
IOW, why would God create man just to send most of them to hell?

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont expect to change anyones mind, thats beyond my feeble ability. Only God changes our minds, by granting us repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth 2 Tim 2:25

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

The word repentance here metanoia:

1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

Can't argue with the above.
Just want to say that REPENT means more than changing one's mind.
It means to change one's direction - from one direction, turn around, and go the other way ... (toward God).
IOW, the change of mind causes a change of action - physical and spiritual.

 

[Fastfredy0]

But He did allow us to know many things about Him.
And....why He did things.

True to an extent. I was speaking about the metaphysical why. Once in a while He gives a partial why. Job asked 'why' and didn't get a direct answer (I'm going on a tangent).

We could start in the Garden and go through...
All the covenants God made with man was to have a relationship with Him.
The entire bible is the story of God and mankind together.

Agreed.
We also have a general "why" to everything He does. When someone is running the entire universe it difficult to know all the WHYS.

From the above it's apparent that God has plans, both generally, and personally, and that they are for our well being and not for evil.

Valid point. We do know some WHYS. Most WHYS lead to other questions with WHYS. Many answers to WHY are partial I assume. God may 1 of many reasons He did X. Then there is the problem of Him being transcendent so it is probable we wouldn't understand all the WHYs.

for our well being and not for evil.

well, "evil" a big Matzah ball *giggle* enough on our plate (pun intended)

We will call on the Lord and He will hear us.
We have the ability to seek Him and find Him.

Well, scripture says NO ONE SEEKS GOD so you have a contradiction you need to explain. My solution to the contradiction is God seeks those He chose using the Spirit in us to seek God. Confirmation is in 1 Cor. 2:14 that says: the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated,
These verses and 100 more Total Depravity verses support my contention. Up to you to explain the contradiction with scripture of how we can seek God and Romans 3:11 says we can't and without assumption like "God wouldn't ask us to do something we can't do it". Find a verse saying someone seeks God independent of God's enabling and 1 Cor. 2:14 says you can't do it IMO as that would cause another contradiction.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

We should note that what God preplanned is always for a work or an office...
it is never a person for salvation.

I disagree regarding "work or office". The verse is addressed to the "we" who are the Ephesians who, according to 1 Cor. 2:14 wouldn't know what Paul is talking about if the Spirit doesn't give them understanding. We're going on a tangent. I think the original question is: "Why did God do whatever in Thes. 2:1-2

1) How are you using the word THODICY?
2) What do you mean we put ourselves first?
3) And how is passing over most persons that ever lived a glory to God?

So many questions ... going to forget thesis .. but anyways ....
1) Theodicy - vindication of God's goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil.

2) I mean that in regards to "vindication of God's goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil" we tend to see things from our point of view and not what God's purpose is. God's point of view is the display His glory. In regards to mercy, patience, long suffering, grace He needs sin to show His glory.
If the purpose of redemption as well as of creation and of providence is the production of the greatest amount of happiness, then Christianity is one thing; if the end be the glory of God, then Christianity is another thing.

3) Aside: In Romans 9:20 God chastises that sort of question and doesn't answer it so not as if I can do it ...

• to show His justice,
• to show His freedom to choose for if He has to choose everyone then it's like He's obligated,
• to enhance our appreciation of His mercy to us.

I sometimes ask: "Why me" and the answer IMO is my salvation nothing to do with me. (Job 35:7) ... aside: some of these questions are too big for me ... why God does X and Y and Z ... I have an idea of His general purpose but all the why's for specific actions is beyond my pay grade.

I don't see how man could be held responsible for ANY of his sins.
IOW, why would God create man just to send most of them to hell?

I gave my ideas.
So many questions it is difficult to remember the original intent.

Wife is calling. I answer to her and God .... *giggle*

 

[atpollard]

1689 Baptist Confession of Faith (traditional)
1689 Baptist Confession of Faith (modern English)

Of God's Covenant​

Chapter 7​

​

PARAGRAPH 1​

The distance between God and the creature is so great, that although reasonable creatures do owe obedience to Him as their creator, yet they could never have attained the reward of life but by some voluntary condescension on God's part, which He hath been pleased to express by way of covenant.1

1 Luke 17:10; Job 35:7–8

---

​

PARAGRAPH 2​

Moreover, man having brought himself under the curse of the law by his fall, it pleased the Lord to make a covenant of grace,2 wherein He freely offers unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in Him, that they may be saved;3 and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto eternal life, His Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.4

2 Gen. 2:17; Gal. 3:10; Rom. 3:20–21
3 Rom. 8:3; Mark 16:15–16; John 3:16
4 Ezek. 36:26–27; John 6:44–45; Ps. 110:3

---

​

​

PARAGRAPH 3​

This covenant is revealed in the gospel; first of all to Adam in the promise of salvation by the seed of the woman,5 and afterwards by farther steps, until the full discovery thereof was completed in the New Testament;6 and it is founded in that eternal covenant transaction that was between the Father and the Son about the redemption of the elect;7 and it is alone by the grace of this covenant that all the posterity of fallen Adam that ever were saved did obtain life and blessed immortality, man being now utterly incapable of acceptance with God upon those terms on which Adam stood in his state of innocency.8

5 Gen. 3:15
6 Heb. 1:1
7 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2
8 Heb. 11;6,13; Rom. 4:1–2; Acts 4:12; John 8:56

 

[GodsGrace]

True to an extent. I was speaking about the metaphysical why. Once in a while He gives a partial why. Job asked 'why' and didn't get a direct answer (I'm going on a tangent).


Agreed.
We also have a general "why" to everything He does. When someone is running the entire universe it difficult to know all the WHYS.



Valid point. We do know some WHYS. Most WHYS lead to other questions with WHYS. Many answers to WHY are partial I assume. God may 1 of many reasons He did X. Then there is the problem of Him being transcendent so it is probable we wouldn't understand all the WHYs.



well, "evil" a big Matzah ball *giggle* enough on our plate (pun intended)



Well, scripture says NO ONE SEEKS GOD so you have a contradiction you need to explain. My solution to the contradiction is God seeks those He chose using the Spirit in us to seek God. Confirmation is in 1 Cor. 2:14 that says: the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated,
These verses and 100 more Total Depravity verses support my contention. Up to you to explain the contradiction with scripture of how we can seek God and Romans 3:11 says we can't and without assumption like "God wouldn't ask us to do something we can't do it". Find a verse saying someone seeks God independent of God's enabling and 1 Cor. 2:14 says you can't do it IMO as that would cause another contradiction.



I disagree regarding "work or office". The verse is addressed to the "we" who are the Ephesians who, according to 1 Cor. 2:14 wouldn't know what Paul is talking about if the Spirit doesn't give them understanding. We're going on a tangent. I think the original question is: "Why did God do whatever in Thes. 2:1-2



So many questions ... going to forget thesis .. but anyways ....
1) Theodicy - vindication of God's goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil.

2) I mean that in regards to "vindication of God's goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil" we tend to see things from our point of view and not what God's purpose is. God's point of view is the display His glory. In regards to mercy, patience, long suffering, grace He needs sin to show His glory.
If the purpose of redemption as well as of creation and of providence is the production of the greatest amount of happiness, then Christianity is one thing; if the end be the glory of God, then Christianity is another thing.

3) Aside: In Romans 9:20 God chastises that sort of question and doesn't answer it so not as if I can do it ...

• to show His justice,
• to show His freedom to choose for if He has to choose everyone then it's like He's obligated,
• to enhance our appreciation of His mercy to us.

I sometimes ask: "Why me" and the answer IMO is my salvation nothing to do with me. (Job 35:7) ... aside: some of these questions are too big for me ... why God does X and Y and Z ... I have an idea of His general purpose but all the why's for specific actions is beyond my pay grade.


I gave my ideas.
So many questions it is difficult to remember the original intent.

Wife is calling. I answer to her and God .... *giggle*

Hi FF
Just saw this or forgot to reply.
Sorry.
On vacation....when I get back home to my computer.

 

[brightfame52]

atpollard

wherein He freely offers unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in Him, that they may be saved;3 and promising to give unto all those that are ordained unto eternal life, His Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe.4

That sounds like works, making something a requirement for Salvation. In fact, in the New Covenant, which is the Everlasting Covenant manifested in time, The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled all the necessary requirements to save Gods people, and faith is a fruit of that, not a requirement.

 

[GodsGrace]

atpollard


That sounds like works, making something a requirement for Salvation. In fact, in the New Covenant, which is the Everlasting Covenant manifested in time, The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled all the necessary requirements to save Gods people, and faith is a fruit of that, not a requirement.

First God gifts a person faith because they want it.
Then he enters into the New Covenant.
Jesus fulfilled all the requirements but God gave man free will so he must Want to be part of the NC. God does not force his love on us nor does He demand it of us.

And the effect in Galatians is Faithfulness not faith.

In Eph 2,8 we are speaking about a gift before salvation.

In Galations 5,22...we are speaking about the Fruits of salvation after we are saved.

 

[atpollard]

That sounds like works, making something a requirement for Salvation. In fact, in the New Covenant, which is the Everlasting Covenant manifested in time, The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled all the necessary requirements to save Gods people, and faith is a fruit of that, not a requirement.

I agree that it COULD sound that way, but it doesn't NEED to be read that way:

Chapter 7, Paragraph 2, [in Modern English]

• Since humanity brought itself under the curse of the law by its fall, it pleased the Lord to make a covenant of grace.2 In this covenant he freely offers to sinners life and salvation through Jesus Christ. On their part he requires faith in him, that they may be saved,3 and promises to give his Holy Spirit to all who are ordained to eternal life, to make them willing and able to believe.4

Here are the verses that the Confession points us to examine for that portion:

• Romans 8:3 [NKJV] For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
• Mark 16:15-16 [NKJV] And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
• John 3:16 [NKJV] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Does God's Covenant require the saints to have faith in Him ... according to scripture?

• If YES, then there are no saints without faith and the Confession spoke TRUTH.
• If NO, then there exists the odd case of a "faithless saint" and the Confession spoke FALSE.

Mark 16 and John 3 both speak of "he who believes" and "whoever believes", so ...

Is there a relationship between FAITH and BELIEVE?​

Therein lies the heart of the matter.
(A question that I leave for you to answer for yourself, as I am not the Holy Spirit, so you don't answer to me.)
[Romans 14:4]

 

[brightfame52]

First God gifts a person faith because they want it.
Then he enters into the New Covenant.
Jesus fulfilled all the requirements but God gave man free will so he must Want to be part of the NC. God does not force his love on us nor does He demand it of us.

And the effect in Galatians is Faithfulness not faith.

In Eph 2,8 we are speaking about a gift before salvation.

In Galations 5,22...we are speaking about the Fruits of salvation after we are saved.

I dont know what you talking about.

 

[brightfame52]

I agree that it COULD sound that way, but it doesn't NEED to be read that way:

Chapter 7, Paragraph 2, [in Modern English]

• Since humanity brought itself under the curse of the law by its fall, it pleased the Lord to make a covenant of grace.2 In this covenant he freely offers to sinners life and salvation through Jesus Christ. On their part he requires faith in him, that they may be saved,3 and promises to give his Holy Spirit to all who are ordained to eternal life, to make them willing and able to believe.4

Here are the verses that the Confession points us to examine for that portion:

• Romans 8:3 [NKJV] For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
• Mark 16:15-16 [NKJV] And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
• John 3:16 [NKJV] For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Does God's Covenant require the saints to have faith in Him ... according to scripture?

• If YES, then there are no saints without faith and the Confession spoke TRUTH.
• If NO, then there exists the odd case of a "faithless saint" and the Confession spoke FALSE.

Mark 16 and John 3 both speak of "he who believes" and "whoever believes", so ...

Is there a relationship between FAITH and BELIEVE?​

Therein lies the heart of the matter.
(A question that I leave for you to answer for yourself, as I am not the Holy Spirit, so you don't answer to me.)
[Romans 14:4]

Like I said, thats works, requirements. Christ met all the conditions and requirements to secure all the Spiritual Blessings needed to save Gods People, which Blessings included Faith. Faith isn't a requirement but a benefit, a blessing bestowed on all for whom Christ was Surety of the Covenant for.

 

[atpollard]

Like I said, thats works, requirements. Christ met all the conditions and requirements to secure all the Spiritual Blessings needed to save Gods People, which Blessings included Faith. Faith isn't a requirement but a benefit, a blessing bestowed on all for whom Christ was Surety of the Covenant for.

Baptist Distinctives: Individual Soul Liberty​

Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the freedom to choose what his conscience or soul dictates is right in the religious realm. Soul liberty asks the believer to accept responsibility for his own actions and not try to force anyone else to do or believe anything contrary to his own conscience. However, this liberty is not a justification for disobeying God. The believer must still act according to the principles of Scripture.

Individual soul liberty is a particularly Baptist principle. Most denominations attempt to exercise control over their members to some extent, but Baptists limit such control by demanding that every believer is ultimately responsible to God. Individuals have the right to disagree with others, follow their own conscience, and not feel compelled to adopt any views they disagree with. This does not suggest that every believer is a “lone wolf” or that believers need not submit to the leadership of their church. Soul liberty simply asserts that every believer has the right to act in accordance with his own conscience, and that no one can force anyone to believe or act against his theological viewpoint.

• John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, “If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?”
• Romans 14:5-12, 21 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For both if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. . . . But why do you judge your brother? Or also why do you despise your brother? For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ. . . . It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.
• Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between [Paul and Barnabas], that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus.

[ie. I disagree with your interpretation - I believe that there are no 'faithless saints' as the Confession claims - but support your right to follow your conscience.]

 

[GodsGrace]

I dont know what you talking about.

You never do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Like I said, thats works, requirements. Christ met all the conditions and requirements to secure all the Spiritual Blessings needed to save Gods People, which Blessings included Faith. Faith isn't a requirement but a benefit, a blessing bestowed on all for whom Christ was Surety of the Covenant for.

Faith is NOT a benefit.
Faith is a gift from God.
It CANNOT be a work because Paul stated that if it's a work then it cannot be a gift.
Romans 11:6

You keep saying faith is a work.

Who's right?
You or Paul?

 

[brightfame52]

Baptist Distinctives: Individual Soul Liberty​

Every individual, whether a believer or an unbeliever, has the freedom to choose what his conscience or soul dictates is right in the religious realm. Soul liberty asks the believer to accept responsibility for his own actions and not try to force anyone else to do or believe anything contrary to his own conscience. However, this liberty is not a justification for disobeying God. The believer must still act according to the principles of Scripture.

Individual soul liberty is a particularly Baptist principle. Most denominations attempt to exercise control over their members to some extent, but Baptists limit such control by demanding that every believer is ultimately responsible to God. Individuals have the right to disagree with others, follow their own conscience, and not feel compelled to adopt any views they disagree with. This does not suggest that every believer is a “lone wolf” or that believers need not submit to the leadership of their church. Soul liberty simply asserts that every believer has the right to act in accordance with his own conscience, and that no one can force anyone to believe or act against his theological viewpoint.

• John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, “If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?”
• Romans 14:5-12, 21 One indeed esteems a day above another day; and another esteems every day alike. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind. He who regards the day regards it to the Lord; and he not regarding the day, does not regard it to the Lord. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, does not eat to the Lord, and gives God thanks. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For both if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. . . . But why do you judge your brother? Or also why do you despise your brother? For all shall stand before the judgment seat of Christ. . . . It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.
• Acts 15:39 And the contention was so sharp between [Paul and Barnabas], that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus.

[ie. I disagree with your interpretation - I believe that there are no 'faithless saints' as the Confession claims - but support your right to follow your conscience.]

I dont know what you talking about friend. You all over the place.