2nd Coming has already happened??

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher
Hey Ret. I would say we are at the end of the millenium.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

Your not saying the first resurrection is past already are you?

2 tim 2;18
Who concerning the truth have erred,saying that the resurrection is past already;and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[researcher]

researcher
Hey Ret. I would say we are at the end of the millenium.


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.

Your not saying the first resurrection is past already are you?

2 tim 2;18
Who concerning the truth have erred,saying that the resurrection is past already;and overthrow the faith of some.

I had to think about that for a minute.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection would have been when Jesus came back. Then the millenium, then the final resurrection. So, yes, the first resurrection would be past.

There is ample evidence Jesus came back in the first century -

Mat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Which would mean the first resurrection was in the past.

2 tim 2;18 was written 1950 years ago to different people. The Apostles also wrote that they knew the time was at hand. The resurrection hadn't happened at the time of Paul writing that, but it would have in their lifetime.

Jas 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient over it, until it receive the early and latter rain.
Jas 5:8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand.

2Ti 4:1 I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--

Paul rightfully warned them against thinking the second coming had happened, because it hadn't yet. But Jesus said that he would come back for them in their lifetime, so, I'll have to take his word for it that he did. ;)

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcherMat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Which would mean the first resurrection was in the past.

No thats not what it means.
You need to understand the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19;10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,See thou do it not;I am thy fellowservant,and of thy breathren that have the testimony of Jesus;worship God;for the testimony of Jesus of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Took me years to understand Jesus was talking to his followers.
Those who follow the Lamb witherso he goeth.
I'll tell you something about them.When they go preaching the kingdom of heaven is at hand.It will be at hand.

 

[researcher]

researcherMat 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee into the next: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone through the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Which would mean the first resurrection was in the past.

No thats not what it means.
You need to understand the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 19;10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me,See thou do it not;I am thy fellowservant,and of thy breathren that have the testimony of Jesus;worship God;for the testimony of Jesus of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Took me years to understand Jesus was talking to his followers.
Those who follow the Lamb witherso he goeth.
I'll tell you something about them.When they go preaching the kingdom of heaven is at hand.It will be at hand.

Mat 3:1 And in those days cometh John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, saying,
Mat 3:2 Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 4:17 From that time began Jesus to preach, and to say, Repent ye; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

It was at hand. From John the Baptist on.

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

That would be in the past also.

There are those who still follow the Lamb wherever he goes today via the leading of the Holy Spirit. But the 144,000 would be people from the past. 1st century Israel.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This is the kingdom and time Im speaking of.
Mt 25;34
Then shall the king say unto them on his right hand,Come,ye blessed of my father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

Ofcoarse you being in the US are not part of that kingdom.
Goodluck.

 

[researcher]

This is the kingdom and time Im speaking of.
Mt 25;34
Then shall the king say unto them on his right hand,Come,ye blessed of my father,inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

Ofcoarse you being in the US are not part of that kingdom.
Goodluck.

That verse is the past. Happened already.

Does Jesus stay on earth when he comes back, or does he go back to heaven?

And, America is not Bablyon the great. That's in the past also. Israel is invaded by people to her North in the end. Most likely Russia and her Arab allies. America is an ally of Israel. Which means Russia will probably be at war with us also.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher
And, America is not Bablyon the great. That's in the past also. Israel is invaded by people to her North in the end. Most likely Russia and her Arab allies. America is an ally of Israel. Which means Russia will probably be at war with us also.

I didnt say America was Babylon.Where did you get that from what I wrote?
But the US does go into Israel 3 1/2 years before the end.The same end you said happened 2000 years ago.The false prophet doesnt invade the kingdom of the beast because they are an ally of his.Hes a welcome guest.Im guessing you think someone made fire come down from heaven 2000 years ago.Bet they couldnt do it like the US can.

 

[researcher]

researcher
And, America is not Bablyon the great. That's in the past also. Israel is invaded by people to her North in the end. Most likely Russia and her Arab allies. America is an ally of Israel. Which means Russia will probably be at war with us also.

I didnt say America was Babylon.Where did you get that from what I wrote?
But the US does go into Israel 3 1/2 years before the end.The same end you said happened 2000 years ago.The false prophet doesnt invade the kingdom of the beast because they are an ally of his.Hes a welcome guest.Im guessing you think someone made fire come down from heaven 2000 years ago.Bet they couldnt do it like the US can.

researcher
And, America is not Bablyon the great. That's in the past also. Israel is invaded by people to her North in the end. Most likely Russia and her Arab allies. America is an ally of Israel. Which means Russia will probably be at war with us also.

I didnt say America was Babylon.Where did you get that from what I wrote?
But the US does go into Israel 3 1/2 years before the end.The same end you said happened 2000 years ago.The false prophet doesnt invade the kingdom of the beast because they are an ally of his.Hes a welcome guest.Im guessing you think someone made fire come down from heaven 2000 years ago.Bet they couldnt do it like the US can.

Yes, Jesus came back 1900 and some odd years ago like he said he would, and the Bride was raptured. That's the past.

As for the beast causing fire to come out of heaven, you think America is the beast? No one knows what the fire was, be it symbolic or literal. Even Jesus came to cast fire on the earth, but he didn't do it literally -

Luk 12:49 I came to cast fire upon the earth; and what do I desire, if it is already kindled?

The beast is the one who burns the whore with fire, and, the whore has the blood of the prophets and the saints on her hands. The office of the prophet hasn't existed for almost 2000 years, and Jesus left their house desolate (Mat 23:38). The whore that had the blood of the prophets had to kill them first, thus, if the office of prophet hasn't existed for almost 2000 years, the whore is no one in recent history, or anyone in future history. And if the whore that killed the prophets is from the past, then, the beast that burned her with fire is also in the past. And Jesus and the apostles told us who killed the prophets and the saints -

Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come ALL the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, ALL these things shall come upon THIS generation.

1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
1Th 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us (saints); and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
1Th 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Act 6:9 But there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen.
Act 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Rev 18:2 And he cried with a mighty voice, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and is become a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


And Jesus told the ones who killed the prophets what would happen to them. Not a future generation, that generation. And it happened. Jerusalem was destroyed. Over a million butchered, 10,000 crucified and placed around the city (Josephus), then it was burned to the ground.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher
The beast is the one who burns the whore with fire, and, the whore has the blood of the prophets and the saints on her hands. The office of the prophet hasn't existed for almost 2000 years, and Jesus left their house desolate (Mat 23:38). The whore that had the blood of the prophets had to kill them first, thus, if the office of prophet hasn't existed for almost 2000 years, the whore is no one in recent history, or anyone in future history. And if the whore that killed the prophets is from the past, then, the beast that burned her with fire is also in the past. And Jesus and the apostles told us who killed the prophets and the saints -

If Rome is the beast and the beast was cast into the lake of fire then how is Rome still in Rome?If the whore was destroyed then how is the whore still standing?
That deadly wound was healed.The city that sits atop the seven hills still sits atop the seven hills.Go to google maps and take a look if you dont believe me.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Took me years to understand who Jesus is talking too.I sure am glad I was able to hear him .

 

[researcher]

researcher
The beast is the one who burns the whore with fire, and, the whore has the blood of the prophets and the saints on her hands. The office of the prophet hasn't existed for almost 2000 years, and Jesus left their house desolate (Mat 23:38). The whore that had the blood of the prophets had to kill them first, thus, if the office of prophet hasn't existed for almost 2000 years, the whore is no one in recent history, or anyone in future history. And if the whore that killed the prophets is from the past, then, the beast that burned her with fire is also in the past. And Jesus and the apostles told us who killed the prophets and the saints -

If Rome is the beast and the beast was cast into the lake of fire then how is Rome still in Rome?If the whore was destroyed then how is the whore still standing?
That deadly wound was healed.The city that sits atop the seven hills still sits atop the seven hills.Go to google maps and take a look if you dont believe me.

[quote:1lcdc76l]Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Took me years to understand who Jesus is talking too.I sure am glad I was able to hear him .[/quote:1lcdc76l]

Who is the whore?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

researcher Who is the whore?

Jerusalem.
Last time I looked on google maps,she still there too.
The ten horns is there beside her as well.

The same ten horns that make war with the Lamb at his coming.

 

[researcher]

researcher Who is the whore?

Jerusalem.
Last time I looked on google maps,she still there too.
The ten horns is there beside her as well.

The same ten horns that make war with the Lamb at his coming.

So if the whore is Jerusalem and is going to be destroyed in our time, and never be seen again, how does it exist after the millenium for the Gog-Magog war?

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.


Eze 39:1 And thou, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:
Eze 39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy hordes, and the peoples that are with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

="researcher"][

So if the whore is Jerusalem and is going to be destroyed in our time, and never be seen again, how does it exist after the millenium for the Gog-Magog war?

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

Eze 38;11
And thou shaly say,I will go up to the land of unwalled vilages;I will go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.


Jerusalem will have to be destroyed before it would even be a city of unwalled villiges.As of now Israel is building walls as we speak.They dont dwell safely without bars or gates.They dont dwell safely at all.The only way anyone will dwell in Jerusalem without walls is if every wall is cast down . :yes

 

[researcher]

="researcher"][

So if the whore is Jerusalem and is going to be destroyed in our time, and never be seen again, how does it exist after the millenium for the Gog-Magog war?

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.

Eze 38;11
And thou shaly say,I will go up to the land of unwalled vilages;I will go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.


Jerusalem will have to be destroyed before it would even be a city of unwalled villiges.As of now Israel is building walls as we speak.They dont dwell safely without bars or gates.They dont dwell safely at all.The only way anyone will dwell in Jerusalem without walls is if every wall is cast down . :yes

God is late to destroy the whore then. Too many generations have gone by.

Deu 5:9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them;
for I, Jehovah, thy God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me;

Jesus was speaking of the generation he lived in -

Exo 1:6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.

Generation (Webster's)
1 a: a body of living beings constituting a single step in the line of descent from an ancestor b: a group of individuals born and living contemporaneously


Mat 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the marketplaces, who call unto their fellows

Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first.
Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation.


Mat 17:17 And Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I bear with you? bring him hither to me.

Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished.

Luk 7:31 Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation, and to what are they like?

Luk 11:30 For even as Jonah became a sign unto the Ninevites,
so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.

Luk 17:25 But first must he suffer many things and be rejected of this generation.

Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send unto them prophets and apostles; and some of them they shall kill and persecute;
Luk 11:50 that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luk 11:51 from the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zachariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary: yea, I say unto you, it shall be required of this generation.

It was accomplished in their generation. They killed the prophets and some of the apostles. And that blood was required of them, just like it says.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Eze 38;11
And thou shaly say,I will go up to the land of unwalled vilages;I will go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.

You believe the people in Israel dwell there safely without walls.
Maybe you should tell them they dwell safely and see what they would say to you.
I ask you one question.
If the people who dwell in Israel today are the same people in the above verse,then why are they building walls for thier secirity?

 

[researcher]

Eze 38;11
And thou shaly say,I will go up to the land of unwalled vilages;I will go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.

You believe the people in Israel dwell there safely without walls.
Maybe you should tell them they dwell safely and see what they would say to you.
I ask you one question.
If the people who dwell in Israel today are the same people in the above verse,then why are they building walls for thier secirity?

The blood was required of the generation that Jesus lived in. The ones who saw him, and also had him killed.

As for walls, walls come down. There has been pressure on Israel to take down the security wall for some time. Who knows if or when it will happen. No one said Gog/Magog will invade tomorrow. Could be 20 years, or a 100.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2003/08/0 ... 30805.html

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Eze 38;11
And thou shaly say,I will go up to the land of unwalled vilages;I will go to them that are at rest,that dwell safely,all of them dwelling without walls,and having neither bars nor gates.

You believe the people in Israel dwell there safely without walls.
Maybe you should tell them they dwell safely and see what they would say to you.
I ask you one question.
If the people who dwell in Israel today are the same people in the above verse,then why are they building walls for thier secirity?

The blood was required of the generation that Jesus lived in. The ones who saw him, and also had him killed.

As for walls, walls come down. There has been pressure on Israel to take down the security wall for some time. Who knows if or when it will happen. No one said Gog/Magog will invade tomorrow. Could be 20 years, or a 100.

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2003/08/0 ... 30805.html

No No No
The people that dwell in Israel today do not dwell safly as the scripture says.If you dont believe me then ask them.
They are not tearing down walls they build them for thier safty because they live in fear.

The people who live there now are not the same people Eze wrote of.People move in and they move right back out.Been going on for thousands of years .

 

[MMarc]

Has the second coming occured?

Jesus said He would return in darkness, like a thief.
It is also written that all eyes will see Him.

For both of these prophecies to be fulfilled Jesus returns in darkness only to be reveiled later on.

I know many saints were discerned on earth and Jesus returns with the saints.

I know many angels have been discerned on earth and Jesus comes with the angels...

So Jesus would be walking the earth and it wouldn't surprise me one tiny bit...

He will be revealed by the power of the Holy Spirit to the children of the resurrection (my sheep hear My voice). Just like the first time Jesus came and when He was resurrected. All physical eyes might have seen Jesus in Nazareth or Jerusalem after His resurrection but not all eyes recongnised Jesus.

Likewise when He returns even if all physical might see Jesus not all eyes will recongnise Him.
Because no one knows what He looks like in the flesh.

The only way for the ''world'' to recongnise Jesus the religious leaders of the world will have to publicly acknowledge Him, like the pope who cannot sneeze without the world knowing about it for example...
But it will be interesting to see if the pharisees of this world will bow down to Jesus or simply tell the whole church not to believe anything so they might keep all the glory for themselves...

''When the son of man comes, will He find faith?'' Not just in His first coming but will people believe in His return? Now that's the question.

Did Jesus find faith when He came the first time? They had Moises but denied Jesus.
Today they will say 'we have Jesus' of 2000 years ago (which is fine) but will they believe in His return??? The Jesus of today?

 

[kingdavid]

One of the advertisers of this board presented this link arguing that the 2nd coming has already happened many many times - as a personnal 2nd coming.

Is this teaching common where you live? Your thoughts? Bob

Hi Bob- basically what this person has done has spiritualized 3/4 of the OT/NT - and yes...this is a common teaching going around - been around for a while.

Once one begins to spiritualize and allegorize then the scriptures become a closed book.

God bless

how does spiritualizing things make it a closed book? that makes no sense

 

[Captain Sarcastic]

One of the advertisers of this board presented this link arguing that the 2nd coming has already happened many many times - as a personnal 2nd coming

http://www.hallvworthington.com/endworld.html


Is this teaching common where you live? I almost never hear of it -- and it seems to be careful to avoid the 2thess 2:1-3 argument against what it is claiming.

Your thoughts?

Bob

Sounds to me like you're describing the heresy known as Hyper-Preterism. Even Preterists (the way I lean) believe that the Second Coming and Last Judgment are still future events.