2nd Coming has already happened??

[kingdavid]

The notion that the second coming is spiritual is so absurd I'm amazed that so many believe it.

The entire NT message of salvation is that eternal life is only granted and realized at a physical, bodily resurrection of the just. Paul's entire message focuses on the correlation of Christ's death and resurrection to eternal life, to that of the righteous. Without one, the other is not possible (1 Corinthians 15:13-20). Those that are 'asleep' are in their graves and it is there that they will 'perish' if the 'dead be not raised'. The idea of a spiritual resurrection completely negates Paul's linkage with physical dead, a physical grave and physical resurrection. He also links the methodology of Christ's resurrection to the righteous.

"

no, it has just been presented to you wrong. it doesn't deny the natural/physical event but says that the spiritual event takes place first b4 the natural event. if you are not a witness to his spiritual appearing then you will not take part in the physical/natural resurrection

 

[kingdavid]

One of the advertisers of this board presented this link arguing that the 2nd coming has already happened many many times - as a personnal 2nd coming

http://www.hallvworthington.com/endworld.html


Is this teaching common where you live? I almost never hear of it -- and it seems to be careful to avoid the 2thess 2:1-3 argument against what it is claiming.

Your thoughts?

Bob

the physical resurection hasn't happened yet but his appearing which precedes the resurection has taken place and is fulfilled.

 

[Matthew24:34]

See, what those people don't understand is this.

There are two words used when it speaks of jesus "coming".
One is epiphanea and the other is parousia.

They mean different things.
The epiphanea is Christ coming in the believer, in his people.
The parousia is him actually coming back in his own body, not just his new body, the body of Christ.
If you look at the places where each is used, and keep that reference in mind, it'll make a lot more sense.

Hope that helps to clear it up.
Look into it for yourselves of course, it's probably something you've never noticed or been told about.
I had no clue until about, oh, probably about a year and a half ago.
Not many places I've gone have people even known there were two different words used.

Here is a good site to learn more about that and of course many other things you've probably never known about, you can just use the google search on the page to find whatever it is you're looking for.

http://www.UnleavenedBreadMinistries.org

- Marc Stinebaugh

Greetings! Yes, let's look at the contexts where these terms are used--especially those where both epiphaneia and parousia are both used!

1 Timothy 6:4: The context concerns godly living. Paul urges Timothy to "keep this commandment without spot, blameless until Our Lord Jesus Christ's APPEARING." According to your understanding of epiphaneia, Timothy was to keep the commandment until the Lord came personally to Timothy or others of that day. However, that is not what Paul is clearly teaching. He is speaking of a specific time that was ABOUT TO COME (see verse 19). Furthermore, in 2 Timothy 1:10 we see this same term used of Christ's first appearing (i.e. "coming")!

2 Timothy 4:1: Paul charged Timothy to "preach the Word." By what authority did Paul charge him?--"before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who was then "ABOUT TO JUDGE the living and the dead AT His appearing and His kingdom." When are the living and the dead judged? According to most futurists, they are judged AT HIS COMING! Since the living and the dead are to be judged at His Coming and since Paul taught that they were to be judged at His Appearing, then "appearing" and the "coming" are simultaneous events!

2 Timothy 4:8: There was laid up for Paul "the crown of righteousness" which the Lord and righteous JUDGE would give him and those who loved His appearing (this one-time event) ON THAT DAY (i.e. His COMING--Parousia)!

Titus 2:13: What is the "blessed hope" of most futurists? Is it not His coming! Paul here demonstrates that they were looking for that blessed hope and that blessed hope is tied into the appearing "of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ."

Acts 27:20: Here epiphaneia is used of the actual, physical appearing or manfestation of the sun and stars!

Here are the two most significant--

2 Thes. 2:8: Here both terms are used. According to Thayer (Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament the term epiphaneia was "often used by Greeks of a glorious manifestation of the gods, and esp. of their advent to help" (p. 245). Thayer's lexicon further states that the term also refers to Christ's "return from heaven to earth" (p. 246). In 2 Thessalonians 2:8 Paul ties together the "glorious manfestation" (epiphaneia) and His coming (parousia). Simultaneous event!

Acts 2:20: Peter has already established that what is being witnessed there at Pentecost is that which Joel spoke of (Joel 2:28-32) and what Joel spoke of was the LAST DAYS. In THOSE last days in which THEY were then living would occur the glorious or great (epiphaneia) day of the Lord and His COMING (parousia). Again, characteristics of the SAME event--His coming!

Matthew24:34