A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY

[Fastfredy0]

Wrong.
On all.
God is very just.
And I'm very capable of articulating what's in my mind.
End of story.

I still say your theology leads you to define God as unjust. You didn't address my points so I assume you agreed.

Question: I know you support the mass. Do you really believe you have drunk the real blood of Christ and eaten some of his real body???? (probably won't answer)

 

[journeymanisnothing]

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Think about salvation is in the patience of our Lord?

without shedding of blood is no remission.
Heb.9:22

Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Heb.12:4

So the Apostles taught, unless a person repents, turns, wars against sin, that person will not be saved.

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Paul was accused of teaching that people didn't need to obey our Lord to be saved. Big mistake.

 

[GodsGrace]

They are caricatures and strawmen

No, what you post is what you wrongly perceive them to be saying. As FF said, you do sort of try and back up your claims, but FF has posted several times now for you to back up your claims with direct quotes or facts, and you have not.

I am a Calvinist and even those who do not agree with me, know that.
What I believe is mainstream and can be found in John Murrays book Redemption, Accomplished, and Applied.
Any Calvinist , and most of the non Calvinists know that is so. What the JW's believe is not relevant.

Who said anything about JWs?
You talk to too many persons.
I have nothing to say regarding the above.

PLEASE SEE:
THEOLOGY
IS FREE WILL BIBLICAL BY GRUMIX8
POST 357

You keep saying God did not create evil.
I've been telling you that your top theologians don't agree with you.
HEAR them say it in their own words....I've posted this before BTW.

 

[GodsGrace]

I still say your theology leads you to define God as unjust. You didn't address my points so I assume you agreed.

Question: I know you support the mass. Do you really believe you have drunk the real blood of Christ and eaten some of his real body???? (probably won't answer)

You're right.
I won't answer.
And your first sentence is wrong.

MY theology leads to A JUST GOD....just like the bible represents Him.
YOUR theology leads to an UNJUST GOD....just like the bible does NOT represent Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

They are caricatures and strawmen

No, what you post is what you wrongly perceive them to be saying. As FF said, you do sort of try and back up your claims, but FF has posted several times now for you to back up your claims with direct quotes or facts, and you have not.

I am a Calvinist and even those who do not agree with me, know that.
What I believe is mainstream and can be found in John Murrays book Redemption, Accomplished, and Applied.
Any Calvinist , and most of the non Calvinists know that is so. What the JW's believe is not relevant.

I haven't read John Murray's book.
Maybe you should stop reading books and start reading the Bible?

 

[atpollard]

You keep saying God did not create evil.
I've been telling you that your top theologians don't agree with you.

Just for the record, MY top theologian is R.C. Sproul.
(just sayin')

Here you go ... from Ligonier Ministries 2022 Conference:

If God Created Everything, How Is It That God Didn’t Create Evil?​

Since God did not create evil, where did it come from? Today, Michael Reeves helps us think through this challenging subject by illustrating the differences between darkness and light.

Transcript​

NATHAN W. BINGHAM: We’re recording live from Ligonier’s 2022 National Conference, and I’m joined by the president and professor of theology from Union School of Theology in Oxford, England. Dr. Reeves, if God created everything and evil exists, how is it that God did not create evil?
DR. MICHAEL REEVES: This was a question that really bothered Augustine. He was the one who spent the most time seeking to answer it. He said, let’s look at Genesis. God creates everything, and it is good. So, he asked exactly this question: So, what of evil then? The simple answer that he gave that was trying to piece together all the different little indications of Scripture was that evil is not a thing. God created every thing good. But evil is not a thing. What he meant by that is not that evil doesn’t exist, but that there is no such thing as a lump of evil. I can’t throw you a block of evil. Because God created every thing, evil is not a created thing. Evil is a perversion. It is a lack of being. A clear biblical illustration of this is the difference between light and darkness.
Light actually exists. There are waves and particles. There is such a thing as light. But there is no such thing as darkness. Darkness is simply a lack of light, which is enormously helpful in seeing a few things. First of all, God, while sovereign over all things, is not the creator, the author, of evil. But it also means that evil simply does not have the kind of existence good does. Good and evil are not equal and opposite things. Good is an eternal reality found in God. Evil is a consequential lacking thing. And pastorally that’s very important, rather like darkness and light. Pastorally it’s important because it means that where sin will promise happiness, by its very nature, we see it cannot deliver, because it has no thing to give us.
So, there are two Hebrew words that really try to capture this theme, I think. And the two words are kavod and hevel. Kavod is the word for “glory,” particularly associated with God. God is the One who has being. He is glorious, weighty, substantial. The opposite of that kavod is hevel. It’s the name “Abel.” It’s the word used in Ecclesiastics, “meaningless, meaningless,” or “vanity, vanity.” It’s the word used for “just a breath of air”—so insubstantial it’s there and gone. Hevel is a word used of false gods. They’re just utterly insubstantial compared to the glorious living God. But also hevel is used of the inglorious insubstantiality we turn to when we turn away from God into sin—that we are made for the glory of God, but to walk into evil and sin is to walk into nothingness. It’s to be unmade.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wrong ... you ignorantly post what you believe Reformed teach.
Example:

This suggests intellectual shallowness, ignorance or lying. I've called you on it before. Give me a quote from the Calvin's Institutes where he says God is Unjust. A quote means the edition and page number. Don't try again to hide your deceit via saying something like "you can read the book for yourself". If you find such a quote I will humbly apologize.
Aside: The official teachings for Reformed Theology are best found in WCF and 1689 London Confession. There is minor variations.

Unlike the Roman Catholic faith which you support that has a foundation of Tradition and thus has strayed from God's word ... "When you understand the idolatry of the mass, that propitiatory sacrifice of Christ can never save anyone, the treasury of merit, indulgences, the excess merit of Mary, purgatory, that one righteousness consists of that of Christ, Mary, the saints and oneself, sacraments, that the priest is another Christ … then one does not have the gospel of that leads to salvation". James White ....

Reformed theology is base solely on the Bible. Their confession states: "The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience." They admit their confession is susceptible to error, but it is an earnest attempt to understand God's written word. Perhaps you should post scripture to back up your opinions instead of your obvious inability to understand reform theology as demonstrated by your ignorant statement:

Oh....
James White on Catholicism.
Yes. He's a great source!

 

[GodsGrace]

Just for the record, MY top theologian is R.C. Sproul.
(just sayin')

Where you been A?
Missed you. My favorite Reformed human.

So you want to see RC Sproul saying God created evil?
OK

 

[atpollard]

Where you been A?

I needed a break from CHRISTIANS ...

So I took out my notes on designing a Rocket and tried to come up with a preliminary design estimate for a 1940 version of the Vostok Spacecraft using German V2 and Soviet 1930's Rocket technology. I was curious if a sub-orbital Mercury mission could have been achieved in 1940 if Rocket Development had not been placed on hold for WW2. The answer appears to be "probably" but I haven't quite finished the calculations. We could build the Capsule, engine and tanks ... I just don't know if the total delta-V budget will work for a three-stage to orbit rocket yet.

 

[GodsGrace]

I needed a break from CHRISTIANS ...

So I took out my notes on designing a Rocket and tried to come up with a preliminary design estimate for a 1940 version of the Vostok Spacecraft using German V2 and Soviet 1930's Rocket technology. I was curious if a sub-orbital Mercury mission could have been achieved in 1940 if Rocket Development had not been placed on hold for WW2. The answer appears to be "probably" but I haven't quite finished the calculations. We could build the Capsule, engine and tanks ... I just don't know if the total delta-V budget will work for a three-stage to orbit rocket yet.

So your a rocket scientist.
Great.
What chance do I have now of convincing you to come over to my side?
So, are you planning to actually climb on board of this three-stage orbit rocket
so you could REALLY get away from Christians??

 

[Fastfredy0]

You're right.
I won't answer.
And your first sentence is wrong.

MY theology leads to A JUST GOD....just like the bible represents Him.

1. Seeing that you are an official representative of a theological forum and
2. Seeing your hesitance to answer a biblical question and
3. Seeing you LOVE to give opinions

One might conclude you are ashamed of God as you understand Him.

Matthew 10:32-33

O.K. ... let's try again. It would be a statistical near impossibility that you would not answer two theological questions given your propensity to do so unless you are ashamed of your answer IMO ...
How about purgatory (the belief of Roman Catholics and others, a place in which the souls of those dying penitent are purified from venial sins, or undergo the temporal punishment which, after the guilt of mortal sin has been remitted, still remains to be endured by the sinner) .... what's your stance on that? It would be nice to be able to work ourselves to heaven if we came up short on the first attempt. ... and venial and mortal sin, you on board with that?

 

[atpollard]

So your a rocket scientist.
Great.
What chance do I have now of convincing you to come over to my side?
So, are you planning to actually climb on board of this three-stage orbit rocket
so you could REALLY get away from Christians??

Actually, I am a humble Architect who just has a hobby fascination with spacecraft. The math is hard enough to require all of my concentration (thus forcing the rest of the world out of my thoughts) but still within the grasp of the Physics needed to design a building to not fall down in a hurricane (so I can understand it).

I just like playing with "What If" scenarios.

• Could you use the Space Shuttle parts to build a ship to Mars?
• How large would it be? How much would it cost?
• Could it be done with the Saturn V Rocket parts?

 

[JLB]

Just for the record, MY top theologian is R.C. Sproul.

That's why your theology is from man and not God.

My Teacher is the Spirit of Truth.

Here is what the Truth teaches us.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. John 15:2

Anyone IN CHRIST that does not bear fruit is REMOVED by God the Father.

again the Truth says --

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6

Those who do not remain IN CHRIST will be cast into the fire and burned.

Here is how the Truth, my top "theologian" teaches us to remain in Him --

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Anyone who doesnt live by the truth given in these verses is being deceived by a spirit of error.

Those who do not obey the truth will not be saved.




JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

Who said anything about JWs?
You talk to too many persons.
I have nothing to say regarding the above.

PLEASE SEE:
THEOLOGY
IS FREE WILL BIBLICAL BY GRUMIX8
POST 357

You keep saying God did not create evil.
I've been telling you that your top theologians don't agree with you.
HEAR them say it in their own words....I've posted this before BTW.

Honesty sometimes eludes you W...did i not post Isa45:7?

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Remember, I linked it with Amos, and you tried to explain away Amos
6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
God uses evil, He does not cause it.

 

[Iconoclast]

So far you have presented no scripture that validates your claim that says... it is Gods will that multitudes perish justly for their sins.


Let me know when you find it.






JLB

In mt 7 the word for many is MULTITUDES;

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many [MULTITUDES}will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
MULTITUDES SADLY WIND UP IN HELL MY FRIEND, THE GOD OF jN.3:16, WHO DESTROYED MULTITUDES IN THE WORLDWIDE FLOOD , IS THE GOD WHO WILL HAVE THE ANGELS CAST THEM AWAY.... DOES THAT WORK FOR YOU?

 

[Iconoclast]

I haven't read John Murray's book.
Maybe you should stop reading books and start reading the Bible?

I HAVE FORGOTTEN MORE BIBLE THAN YOU WILL EVERY KNOW MY FRIEND, AND WILL CONTINUE TO EXPOSE WHAT YOU TRY AND DO TO UNDERMINE TRUTH

 

[Fastfredy0]

James White on Catholicism.
Yes. He's a great source!

Agreed ... and excellent source.

 

[Iconoclast]

Agreed ... and excellent source.

She most likely has never listened to one of His debates against catholic priests, yet she knows better and be critical of him, john mac, steve lawson etc. She tries to be friendly but attacks non stop. Then gets miffed when we answer her, and try to keep her accountable. You cannot have it both ways W.

 

[atpollard]

My Teacher is the Spirit of Truth.

You are a poor student.

 

[atpollard]

So you want to see RC Sproul saying God created evil?
OK

Did you watch that video?
That was TERRIFIC!!!!!

Yes, THAT is what Reformed believe.