A discussion on TOTAL DEPRAVITY

[Fastfredy0]

She most likely has never listened to one of His debates against catholic priests, yet she knows better and be critical of him, john mac, steve lawson etc. She tries to be friendly but attacks non stop. Then gets miffed when we answer her, and try to keep her accountable. You cannot have it both ways W.

wondering takes advantage by always being on offense. She rarely uses scripture to back up her thoughts; often will not tell you what she believes especially when it come to her Roman Catholic Theology, misquotes, says X and does Y ... in two words, a Reform Troll.
The thing I like about Reform Theology is that it is the only denomination that delves deeply into God's word and systematizes it so one can better understand it. I think the Roman Catholics and I therefore assume wondering do this to some degree also, but the infallible source is R.C. tradition based on men they put in power. I wonder if she prays to Mary (the only other person besides Christ that is sinless in the opinion of R.Cs).
Hey Wondering, do you believe Mary was sinless?????

 

[Iconoclast]

Many Catholics just try and fight to "win". Some will try and piece together a theology, not really seeking truth, but trying to win. Some come full circle, repent and believe.

 

[JLB]

You are a poor student.

I'm an awesome student.

Try following Christ, and His teachings. Following the teachings of man is for the carnal and immature.

And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
1 Corinthians 3:1-4


JLB

 

[JLB]

The thing I like about Reform Theology is that it is the only denomination that delves deeply into God's word and systematizes it so one can better understand it.

Reformed Theology is man's doctrine.

All you need is to read and believe what the scriptures say.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

Brothers in Christ who wander from the truth must be turned back or their soul will be lost unto death.


JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm an awesome student.

Try following Christ, and His teachings. Following the teachings of man is for the carnal and immature.

Really? then why do you suppose God gave men teachers to the church?
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

All these are men

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

 

[journeyman]

Reformed Theology is man's doctrine.

All you need is to read and believe what the scriptures say.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

Brothers in Christ who wander from the truth must be turned back or their soul will be lost unto death.

JLB

This is right. All this confusion is because Paul taught the law condemns us. Yet the purpose of the law was to show that all people should be humble, as we've all sinned against God.
Paul never meant we don't have obey Jesus to be saved, or keep obeying him to stay saved.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Mt.7:22-23

Contrasted with,

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ Mt.25:42-43

 

[atpollard]

Try following Christ, and His teachings. Following the teachings of man is for the carnal and immature.

Reformed Theology is man's doctrine.

All you need is to read and believe what the scriptures say.

• No one can come to Me [Total Inability of man to choose Christ]
• unless the Father who sent Me [Unconditional Election of God to 'show mercy on whom He will show mercy']
• draws him; [Irresistible Grace of God effectually draws man to salvation in the Son]
• and I will raise him up at the last day. [Preservation of Saints, by God, from Predestination through Glorification.]

Reformed Theology is the doctrine of a man ... Jesus Christ ... as revealed from His lips in John 6:44 [NKJV].
Now the question is: Why do you NOT BELIEVE what scriptures (and the lips of God's only Son) say?
We believe Him.

 

[atpollard]

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Mt.7:22-23

Contrasted with,

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ Mt.25:42-43

The first group thought that doing good was the path to salvation (as you are advocating when you reject the teaching of Paul) and learned too late that entrance to heaven is not based on "what you did" but on "WHO KNOWS YOU". The second group bore no fruit (or bore bad fruit), indicating that the HS was not in them and they were never His (Goats, Tares, Wolves and other miscreants within the church).

How is that for a "contrast/compare" between the two paragraphs?

 

[Iconoclast]

Reformed Theology is man's doctrine.

Reformed theology is the Christ center theology given by God to man.
It is called by that name as it was a return to Christ centered scripture.

All you need is to read and believe what the scriptures say.

It is even better when you read with understanding.
When people understand scripture and write down it's teaching it comes out as reformed theology.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
James 5:19-20

Okay I believe that. Turn back from your error JLB

Brothers in Christ who wander from the truth must be turned back or their soul will be lost unto death.


JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

Many Catholics just try and fight to "win". Some will try and piece together a theology, not really seeking truth, but trying to win. Some come full circle, repent and believe.

Theirs is a 'works' gospel. Galatians speaks ominously of that approach.
Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be [a]justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

 

[JLB]

Really? then why do you suppose God gave men teachers to the church?

Teachers are to teach men to follow Christ, by example.

Following (obeying) His doctrine is part of that mandate.

• Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Following (keeping) His commandments is also part of that mandate.

• He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

“I know Him” is the biblically correct way of saying “I have eternal life”.


Having Christ is having eternal life; He is the life.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


Hearing and following Him, because we know Him, because we have Him, because we are joined to Him as one spirit with Him, results in receiving eternal life at the end of the narrow road that “leads to life”, in which no one is able to snatch us out of His hand.

We receive eternal life, eternal salvation, at the end of our faith; as an end result of our faith.


If you don’t understand this concept, let me know and I will explain it further with more scripture.







JLB

 

[JLB]

This is right. All this confusion is because Paul taught the law condemns us. Yet the purpose of the law was to show that all people should be humble, as we've all sinned against God.
Paul never meant we don't have obey Jesus to be saved, or keep obeying him to stay saved.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ Mt.7:22-23

Contrasted with,

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ Mt.25:42-43

Yes sir.


Many don’t understand that the law of Moses was nailed to the cross.

In the New Covenant, we are to obey the law of Christ.

Every covenant of God has laws and commandments.

In the New Covenant we have them written on our heart by the Spirit.




JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

Brothers in Christ who wander from the truth must be turned back or their soul will be lost unto death.

Agreed ... the determination of which brothers have wandered from truth being the crux of the matter. The bible suggests the one the relies on his own counsel is a fool in Proverbs. Of course, always exceptions to the rule.

Reformed Theology is man's doctrine.

All you need is to read and believe what the scriptures say.

The difference between JLB and us reformed men is .... we reformed guys are open to the teachings of others men based on the bible alone. The bible promotes this approach:

Proverbs 15:2 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes [insert appropriate names here],
But a wise man [insert reform guys names here] is he who listens to counsel.

 

[JLB]

Reformed theology is the Christ center theology given by God to man.

Ok great.


Please share the scripture where we are taught that Reformed Theology was given to man by God.


And while you are at it, please explain why the New Covenant needs to be reformed.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Agreed ... the determination of which brothers have wandered from truth being the crux of the matter. The bible suggests the one the relies on his own counsel is a fool in Proverbs. Of course, always exceptions to the rule.

Here is a biblical example of people in scripture that taught false doctrine, resulting in them wandering from the truth.


Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:14-19

• And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past;

These two were teaching false doctrine. Specifically they were teaching a first century version of Preterism; that the resurrection was past.

This false doctrine was rightfully called a cancer that was being spread by these two, and thus to many others.

• And their message will spread like cancer.

Reformed Theology, Calvinism, OSAS, or what ever disguise this cancerous false doctrine goes by, is a sickness being promoted and spread throughout the body of Christ, bringing division and thus weakening the body like a cancer.


The Holy Spirit says it this way —


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1






JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

Please share the scripture where we are taught that Reformed Theology was given to man by God.

And while you are at it, please explain why the New Covenant needs to be reformed.

Typical ... you attack the messenger (Reform Theology) and not the message.

What specifically in the message (refer to 1689 London Confession of Faith) do you think is incorrect ????
See https://1689londonbaptistconfession.com/
... there's 1000s of statements in it.... find something that contradicts scripture oh 'self taught one'

 

[atpollard]

And while you are at it, please explain why the New Covenant needs to be reformed.

Your ignorance of Church history is LEGION. The apostate church needed to be REFORMED BACK to the New Covenant Gospel. Remember the 5 "Solas" of the Reformation:

Christians are saved by ...

• grace alone,
• through faith alone,
• in Christ alone,
• as revealed by Scripture alone,
• to the glory of God alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9 [NKJV] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

That is the New Testament Gospel (anything else is not "GOOD News").

 

[Fastfredy0]

Here is a biblical example of people in scripture that taught false doctrine, resulting in them wandering from the truth.

Agreed, what's your point?
My point was there is value in the council of many per the Bible and yet you rely on the council of one, yourself.
Now, that's now a full proof guarantee that the council of many will always be better than the council of one, but God says the odds are on our (Reformed) side.

Reformed Theology, Calvinism, OSAS, or what ever disguise this cancerous false doctrine goes by, is a sickness being promoted and spread throughout the body of Christ, bringing division and thus weakening the body like a cancer.

Well, to the degree you disagree with Reformed theology we would contend that you are the cancer. But we can exchange unsubstantiated insults and prove nothing.
Go to God's word and tell us where Reform Theology is wrong and JLB is right. Get to specifics, if you can ... otherwise, you are an empty container that makes a loud noise when he speaks.

 

[Fastfredy0]

JLB

Go to God's word and tell us where Reform Theology is wrong and theology according to JLB is right. Get to specifics

Still waiting ...

 

[JLB]

Typical ... you attack the messenger (Reform Theology) and not the message.

What specifically in the message (refer to 1689 London Confession of Faith) do you think is incorrect ????
See https://1689londonbaptistconfession.com/
... there's 1000s of statements in it.... find something that contradicts scripture oh 'self taught one'

No attack, just scripture.

Something "Reformed Theology" avoids.


JLB