A liar from the 'BEGINNING!'

[Elijah674]

David’s reply? Which was one of the many Prophets of our O.T.

“ And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.” 1 Cor. 13:32

Psalm 104
[4] Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
[5] Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.

Both good + evil! (after the rebellion) And surely the angels can be seen as God allows.

Both eat food. Psalm 78:25 says it this way...

[25] Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

ALL the Angels will be seen when Christ returns! Matt. 24:31 ...

[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall [see] the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And well before this we see Christ documenting about satan & his earlier position ‘of mature trust’. We see this documentation... Luke 10:18

[17] And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
[18] And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

So perhaps most can see that this is where the actual rebellion started. It was over the Eternal Law of God! Christ had documented that...

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38] This is the first and great commandment.

So when any one tells you that there is a ‘soul’ living separate from the body of The Real Christian, you can know for sure it is from another source! (see Gen. 3:3&4) Or even the ‘one’ from 1 Kings 22:19-22

[19] And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.
[20] And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
[21] And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.
[22] And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

And do not believe satan’s lies from Gen. 3!

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

What causes the trouble is what comes next when the devils lies are believed.
If one would only believe the simplicity of the Truth that... '[IF] ye loved me, keep my commandments', ... there in lays the escape clause.
What is LOVE?

[[Love is a Morale Principle]]. It can have feelings, yet it has to be grounded (MATURE) first. Christ suffered feeling physically miserable. (Matt. 27:46)
Yet HE died being Morally PERFECT!

Most folk go by feeling good, if the service is loud & noise some, then the Holy Spirit is there? Excitement! surely He is there also!

Yet Moral principle is not like this at all. The 'Holy Spirit IS GIVEN TO THEM WHO [OBEY HIM].'
And that means from day one on! There is nothing more attention holding than the simple truth given!

But as seen today, most all believe the devils lie that you surely do not die! (Gen 3:4)

--Elijah

 

[Douvie]

No where do we see a separation of soul from the spirit. In fact we even find a combination of Christ telling us that we will see both soul & body destroyed in hell.

Actually Elijah, there is but here is the rub.

As the Godhead is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity as we know it, man was made in the image of God.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

So man being made in the image of the Godhead would reflect certain attributes of God even in man's fallen state. Thus the man is made up of body, soul, and spirit but this is only a unity and not a Trinity. We are not little Godheads. Just an imperfect reflection of the Trinity. If any one of those parts departs or it taken away the man ceases to exist here on this earth. In other words, the body dies (due to age in some cases, or injury) and the man ceases to live in this present world. The Spirit returns to God (as mentioned in Ecclesiastes) and the soul continues in Sheol (going to be with the fathers) which originally had 2 compartments.

1Co 15 explains the process of the mortal "putting on" immortality which is opposite to the old way where the body houses the soul and the spirit. The spirit will house the resurrected body and the soul and thus the man will exist again reflecting the Trinity.

When Christ mentions body and soul being thrown into hell - or destroy both in hell - the spirit has already returned to God, for it is God who gives the spirit.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
​

 

[Elijah674]

No where do we see a separation of soul from the spirit. In fact we even find a combination of Christ telling us that we will see both soul & body destroyed in hell.

Actually Elijah, there is but here is the rub.


As the Godhead is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity as we know it, man was made in the image of God.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
​

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
​

So man being made in the image of the Godhead would reflect certain attributes of God even in man's fallen state. Thus the man is made up of body, soul, and spirit but this is only a unity and not a Trinity. We are not little Godheads. Just an imperfect reflection of the Trinity. If any one of those parts departs or it taken away the man ceases to exist here on this earth. In other words, the body dies (due to age in some cases, or injury) and the man ceases to live in this present world. The Spirit returns to God (as mentioned in Ecclesiastes) and the soul continues in Sheol (going to be with the fathers) which originally had 2 compartments.

1Co 15 explains the process of the mortal "putting on" immortality which is opposite to the old way where the body houses the soul and the spirit. The spirit will house the resurrected body and the soul and thus the man will exist again reflecting the Trinity.

When Christ mentions body and soul being thrown into hell - or destroy both in hell - the spirit has already returned to God, for it is God who gives the spirit.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
​

Good post except for the saying that there is...;)! So.. NO, there is not!

Christ was the after thought, after Adam sinned.

Anyway: I can agree with most of the truth that God gave to his first created one.

--Elijah

 

[Douvie]

Christ was the after thought, after Adam sinned.

Really? But that is not what the Scriptures say. So I ask you who was God speaking to in this verse:

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

​

It is in the plural - us, our, our. And "God" is "Elohim" not Eli or El.

Another point is that no one on this forum, including myself, has the monopoly on the Word of God. In fact no one in the world, past, present or future - only God and Jesus Christ the Son of God.

And by the way, if the RCC, which you have labeled, had their way Mary the mother of Jesus Christ would be part of the Trinity. As being ex-catholic this was my experience - please don't get offended.

 

[Elijah674]

Christ (God) was talking to another who was CREATED in their image. (only these two + Adam & Eve have an image!;))

And the after thoughts are [future] prophecy is what I was saying!

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Some sects have only one formula.

No matter 'what other content' is in the text, their conclusions only land on the same spot as if that was the only conclusion available in the entire universe.

Pity, such universes.

s

 

[Douvie]

Christ (God) was talking to another who was CREATED in their image. (only these two + Adam & Eve have an image!)

Who was this CREATED you keep mentioning? Their image? What image? What about some Scriptural support for this other CREATED. Who is he? Why not mention his name?


And no Adam and Eve aren't the only ones. We're all made from one blood - Adam and Eve. And as the Scripture says further:

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
​

So there you are mistaken. It says plainly, "... after his likeness, after his image...."

Your arguments are irrational especially since you mention that Christ is an after thought and now your saying that Christ is speaking with it other CREATED in the creation of Adam and Eve.

 

[smaller]

Satan is called a 'he' in the text. Mark 12:26 for an example.

He denotes a 'male' conveyance. He also operates in mankind as the tempter.

Lucifer is called 'a man.'

Satan for example, by the usages of various terms, can certainly be deemed a MAN. Not a man as in physical flesh and blood, but textually, in spiritual applications of the terms, Satan is in effect A MAN.

A MAN of sin.

When Jesus looked at Peter for example and spoke to Satan in Peter, for all intents and purposes at that moment of statement, Satan was in fact IN A MAN and as such was A MAN OF SIN in the body of Peter.

Getting the picture yet? Anyone who wants to take up the subject can find much more in this direction.

There are also many 'female' counter part terms that apply to the same evil worker family. Jezebel or the woman that rides the beast or Mystery Babylon, the mother of harlots comes quickly to mind. Again, are these 'physical women?'

Of course not. Male and female terms do apply to understandings of evil entities, but they bear no similarity whatsoever to those workings actually being only a man or a woman other than those workings transpiring in people.

s

 

[Elijah674]

Well said: So satan was a created Angel. (ministering 'spirit'!) He had a great start as a covering cherub over the Royal law of God. (Ten Commandments of heaven) He also can get into the person as it is allowed by God.

So as Christ stated... "He was a liar from the beginning."
Just one question, what beginning was Christ talking about!

And it took quite a span of time before he finally won over Cain, but he did so.
satans first convert.

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Well said: So satan was a created Angel. (ministering 'spirit'!) He had a great start as a covering cherub over the Royal law of God. (Ten Commandments of heaven) He also can get into the person as it is allowed by God.

Now Elijah, you know I'm not a fan of the SDA fairytale that Satan was once a Holy Angel who went bad by making one or more bad decisions.

Jesus said he was a murder from the beginning, abode not in the truth (abode being past tense, he never did abide in the truth) and has no truth in him. Not that he had 'the truth' IN HIM at any time. Seriously, Satan IN GOD, in TRUTH??? Not one little whit of a 'chance' on that one E.

I don't think so Elijah.

Satan has always been exactly what he was created as. A perfect devil. The term perfect should not be misconstrued to be holy perfect, but demonically perfect.

Freewill Satan gone bad is as stated, a common christian fairy tale. Good trees don't become bad trees and vice versa.

Even when devils say, as they certainly do in the New Testatment, that Jesus Is Lord, it still does not mean they are telling the truth because there is NO TRUTH in them to speak.

A lot of believers say they love one another, but peeling back the onion will bring tears of reality in short order on that subject. And what we usually find out is that the believer who sez such usually means the exact opposite.

So as Christ stated... "He was a liar from the beginning."
Just one question, what beginning was Christ talking about!

As stated above, Jesus said that the devil 'abode not' in the truth in John 8:44. If Satan abode (past tense) in the truth and then lost it, Jesus would have made the statement more accurately as in 'the devil abode in the truth and then lost it.' Jesus didn't make that statement.

And it took quite a span of time before he finally won over Cain, but he did so.
satans first convert.

--Elijah

Everyone starts off this present life as a slave of the devil Elijah. We are all born into darkness and do not know the Lord.

Where is the devil in this statement of fact if not within the mind of man, blinding them?

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If you are only seeing 'one entity' in the above statement of fact, the location of the devil remains a mystery to such viewers.

When we connect the 'fact' of our own sin to the devil (1 John 3:8) we might also see the futility of claiming that other presence legal while sitting in the pew on Saturday as well?

?

s

 

[Elijah674]

Well said: So satan was a created Angel. (ministering 'spirit'!) He had a great start as a covering cherub over the Royal law of God. (Ten Commandments of heaven) He also can get into the person as it is allowed by God.

So as Christ stated... "He was a liar from the beginning."
Just one question, what beginning was Christ talking about!

And it took quite a span of time before he finally won over Cain, but he did so.
satans first convert.

--Elijah

I do not buy that. It matches up with satan as verse 12 of Isa. 28 implies. But regardless when was this first sinner a covering cherub in heavens court!

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

If Adam & Eve had never sinned would they have had another day for worshipping God?

It was He that said in Mal. 3:6 'That I am the Lord , I change not;..''+ the Son of God which says... (In Heb. 13)

[8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (N.T.)

And in Isa. 66 we find...
[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

and

While there in Heaven this is what we will be doing the other SIX WORKING DAYS... Isa. 65
[21] And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
[22] They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
[23] They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
[24] And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

I can sure see why it took Adam & Eve as long as it did in between the two mature sons for Cain's apostasy. (120 years) With all of the stuff we are hearing from folk on this board?? But finally satan got his foot in the door, & Rev. 17:5 has all kinds of Babylonian tongue tied stuff incorporated in THEIR Rev.17:5 church's! (yeah, plural!)

And what we are hearing is that NO ONE has it all huh?
Yet Christ documents it as....

[24] No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Matt. 6:24

But do not get discouraged, when any person finds the truth, Christ tells [ALL] what He requires next in Rev. 18:4...

[1] And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
[2] And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
[3] For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
[4] And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

If one could become Adam today! Think about it?? Perfect (at least very good, if Christ could create faulty material?) as one can be. Height? weight? and IQ?

Any now the devil would be useless. But it did happen huh? But if it did not take place then Adam & Eve would always be 7th Day Sabbath Keepers. Not like today 'flock' of turn me every which way but loose! (and these ones all want liberty??)

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

How would the devil attack today? No law for sure! And if 'some' might be think that there was one, surely it must be Moses law! And then James 2:8-12 would be taught that this is over & done with regardless of James being in the new covenant side of the book! And besides the Ark of God in heaven is after the judgment and all that James is talking about is while one is saved in the first place! (OSAS) And in heaven we are our on our own to do the worshipping as is our daily thing! And one talks about confusion! Anything else??

James 2:8-12
[8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[9] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[10] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

And Eccl. 12
[13] Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (whole DUTY)
[14] For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. (and ones work shows that their faith was the real thing, because of LOVE... Acts 5:32)

--Elijah

 

[John 8:32]

Well said: So satan was a created Angel. (ministering 'spirit'!) He had a great start as a covering cherub over the Royal law of God. (Ten Commandments of heaven) He also can get into the person as it is allowed by God.

Now Elijah, you know I'm not a fan of the SDA fairytale that Satan was once a Holy Angel who went bad by making one or more bad decisions.

Jesus said he was a murder from the beginning, abode not in the truth (abode being past tense, he never did abide in the truth) and has no truth in him. Not that he had 'the truth' IN HIM at any time. Seriously, Satan IN GOD, in TRUTH??? Not one little whit of a 'chance' on that one E.

I don't think so Elijah.

Satan has always been exactly what he was created as. A perfect devil. The term perfect should not be misconstrued to be holy perfect, but demonically perfect.

Freewill Satan gone bad is as stated, a common christian fairy tale. Good trees don't become bad trees and vice versa.

Even when devils say, as they certainly do in the New Testatment, that Jesus Is Lord, it still does not mean they are telling the truth because there is NO TRUTH in them to speak.

A lot of believers say they love one another, but peeling back the onion will bring tears of reality in short order on that subject. And what we usually find out is that the believer who sez such usually means the exact opposite.

So as Christ stated... "He was a liar from the beginning."
Just one question, what beginning was Christ talking about!

As stated above, Jesus said that the devil 'abode not' in the truth in John 8:44. If Satan abode (past tense) in the truth and then lost it, Jesus would have made the statement more accurately as in 'the devil abode in the truth and then lost it.' Jesus didn't make that statement.

And it took quite a span of time before he finally won over Cain, but he did so.
satans first convert.

--Elijah

Everyone starts off this present life as a slave of the devil Elijah. We are all born into darkness and do not know the Lord.

Where is the devil in this statement of fact if not within the mind of man, blinding them?

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If you are only seeing 'one entity' in the above statement of fact, the location of the devil remains a mystery to such viewers.

When we connect the 'fact' of our own sin to the devil (1 John 3:8) we might also see the futility of claiming that other presence legal while sitting in the pew on Saturday as well?

?

s

Who was this guy?

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

 

[Elijah674]

Now Elijah, you know I'm not a fan of the SDA fairytale that Satan was once a Holy Angel who went bad by making one or more bad decisions.

Jesus said he was a murder from the beginning, abode not in the truth (abode being past tense, he never did abide in the truth) and has no truth in him. Not that he had 'the truth' IN HIM at any time. Seriously, Satan IN GOD, in TRUTH??? Not one little whit of a 'chance' on that one E.

I don't think so Elijah.

Satan has always been exactly what he was created as. A perfect devil. The term perfect should not be misconstrued to be holy perfect, but demonically perfect.

Freewill Satan gone bad is as stated, a common christian fairy tale. Good trees don't become bad trees and vice versa.

Even when devils say, as they certainly do in the New Testatment, that Jesus Is Lord, it still does not mean they are telling the truth because there is NO TRUTH in them to speak.

A lot of believers say they love one another, but peeling back the onion will bring tears of reality in short order on that subject. And what we usually find out is that the believer who sez such usually means the exact opposite.

As stated above, Jesus said that the devil 'abode not' in the truth in John 8:44. If Satan abode (past tense) in the truth and then lost it, Jesus would have made the statement more accurately as in 'the devil abode in the truth and then lost it.' Jesus didn't make that statement.

And it took quite a span of time before he finally won over Cain, but he did so.
satans first convert.

--Elijah

Everyone starts off this present life as a slave of the devil Elijah. We are all born into darkness and do not know the Lord.

Where is the devil in this statement of fact if not within the mind of man, blinding them?

2 Cor. 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

If you are only seeing 'one entity' in the above statement of fact, the location of the devil remains a mystery to such viewers.

When we connect the 'fact' of our own sin to the devil (1 John 3:8) we might also see the futility of claiming that other presence legal while sitting in the pew on Saturday as well?

?

s

Who was this guy?

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Eze 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

It takes time for Smaller to grow!;)
But before it is all said and done, perhaps he will see the workings of satan big/time!

--Elijah

 

[Deborah13]

satan's lie in the garden....

Surely you will not die.....it's good for you. God doesn't want you to have something that is really good for you. God is holding something good back from you.

I'm letting you in on something here, he hisses......God is not a good God.

 

[smaller]

It takes time for Smaller to grow!;)
But before it is all said and done, perhaps he will see the workings of satan big/time!

--Elijah

Oh, you mean that SDA fairy tale that others are going to persecute SDA'ists for Saturday Sabbath?

Please don't make me snore.

s