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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
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abomination of desolation
- Thread starter n2thelight
- Start date
n2thelight
Member
- Jun 27, 2007
- 2,534
- 33
- Thread starter
- #62
Color me "shocked" by this news!2
And - of course - you can say that with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY because, after all, you were there, right?
So quick to take symbolism literally yet reject that which is plainly literal.
Yes I can say this ABOSOLUTLY NO DOUBT ABOUT IT SURE CERTAINTY because,scripture says within an hour after they rise,Christ returns and had He returned brings us back to my question that I can't seem to get an answer
Why are we still in a flesh body???????????????????
Oh and its not quick,it's study.........
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E
Elijah674
Guest
ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION???
Surely we are again in 6/30/2011 finding Matt. 25 with [ALL} Sleeping! WAKE UP IS THE CRY!!
OK: Again, Christ came to His OWN HOUSE! In Isa. 5 we see 'House' in verse7. For the Vinyard IS THE [HOUSE]. And in verse 3 ibide. we see.. '.. JUDGE, I PRAY YOU, [[BETWIXT ME & MY VINEYARD]]'.
When Christ came to them in 27AD therebouts, who or rather what did they CHOOSE?? Their HOUSE BECAME DESOLATE of whom? CHRIST!! Matt. 23:38, The DOOR WAS CLOSED! Matt. 25:10, They CRIED WE HAVE [NO KING BUT CAESAR! They SPIT IN CHRIST's FACE! They EXECUTED HIM! So, what was their ex/HOUSE now???????
And here comes this Re: question?? Forum: Who cares about THE 39 years into the future of Christ's EX/HOUSE SLAUGHTER. IT WAS CHRIST/LESS when Christ came! So who benefites with these reams & reams of satan's stuff except satan? And when Christ's ex/HOUSE became DESOLATE, who immediately took over?
They BECAME KILLERS of Christ and His 'REMNANT' starter's of the Acts Church. And as Rev. 3:9 finds the Synagogue of satan there, so did the ex/house of Christ BECOME SO! This is in both Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 Prophesied History to be Truth! Say's God Word!!
And you will soon see the wrap/up of Israel and the antichrist's [last stand]. But do refresh Matt. 24:24 WONDERS!
SO: All eyes will be upon Israel, but for totally different reasons, unless you are to be one of the deceived ones.
--Elijah
Surely we are again in 6/30/2011 finding Matt. 25 with [ALL} Sleeping! WAKE UP IS THE CRY!!
OK: Again, Christ came to His OWN HOUSE! In Isa. 5 we see 'House' in verse7. For the Vinyard IS THE [HOUSE]. And in verse 3 ibide. we see.. '.. JUDGE, I PRAY YOU, [[BETWIXT ME & MY VINEYARD]]'.
When Christ came to them in 27AD therebouts, who or rather what did they CHOOSE?? Their HOUSE BECAME DESOLATE of whom? CHRIST!! Matt. 23:38, The DOOR WAS CLOSED! Matt. 25:10, They CRIED WE HAVE [NO KING BUT CAESAR! They SPIT IN CHRIST's FACE! They EXECUTED HIM! So, what was their ex/HOUSE now???????
And here comes this Re: question?? Forum: Who cares about THE 39 years into the future of Christ's EX/HOUSE SLAUGHTER. IT WAS CHRIST/LESS when Christ came! So who benefites with these reams & reams of satan's stuff except satan? And when Christ's ex/HOUSE became DESOLATE, who immediately took over?
They BECAME KILLERS of Christ and His 'REMNANT' starter's of the Acts Church. And as Rev. 3:9 finds the Synagogue of satan there, so did the ex/house of Christ BECOME SO! This is in both Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 Prophesied History to be Truth! Say's God Word!!
And you will soon see the wrap/up of Israel and the antichrist's [last stand]. But do refresh Matt. 24:24 WONDERS!
SO: All eyes will be upon Israel, but for totally different reasons, unless you are to be one of the deceived ones.
--Elijah
Stormcrow
Member
- Apr 1, 2011
- 3,005
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I've answered this question several times but you refuse to accept the answer!
Again: His "coming" in the clouds was in judgment on the generation that crucified Him! So when Matthew writes:
{30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the land lament, and they shall see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30 (Darby)
It's clear that His coming was NEVER intended for American Evangelicals living 2,000 years later!!!
John writes essentially the same thing in Revelation 1!
{7} Behold, he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they which have pierced him, and all the tribes of the land shall wail because of him. Yea. Amen. Revelation 1:7 (Darby)
And again, both Matthew and John are citing THIS prophecy!
{10} And I will pour upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of grace and of supplications; and they shall look on me whom they pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for an only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. {11} In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadad-rimmon in the valley of Megiddon. Zechariah 12:10-11 (Darby)
His coming was to show those who pierced Him that they crucified their savior, and that He now reigned in heaven in power and great glory!!!
His coming WAS NOT FOR US! So whatever else happened in Jerusalem during the siege and destruction of the city and temple that isn't recorded in Josephus or the early church histories, we will NOT know until we get to heaven!!!
Therefore, it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to be certain that Ananus and Jesus weren't raised, because it's not recorded and YOU weren't there!
You're waiting for an arrival that was never intended for you that happened 2,000 years ago!!!
And we are still in fleshy bodies because we have not passed from this life into the next, where we get our new ones!!! (As has also been addressed and yet you refuse to acknowledge!)
Death hasent been destroyed, its been defeated, we have ben given a way out, an easy yoke from death, which is Salvation, which is the Word, which is Christ Jesus.
As He died and rose so also shall all that are in Him.
You were right about one thing, the Him that puts all things under Him is God the Father, what your missing is that He cannot say "all things are put under Him" until the last enemy is destroyed, which is death.
Death is defeated, not destroyed, thats what you do not understand.
Slightly branching off topic here but still related because it has to do with 70 A.D.
The phrase “on the clouds†is used in the Bible to denote a position of authority and power. Many, many times God used the imagery of being in clouds when He indicated He would come in judgment against a people.
Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 24:30
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
Matthew 26:63-64
But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven .
David described the time he cried to God when in trouble from his persecutors.
2 Samuel 22:7-14
In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears. Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies. Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
God came in judgment against his enemies! David said God came with darkness beneath His feet and thick clouds of the skies were like pavilions or tabernacles around Him. And He rode upon a cherub.
Did David physically see these things? Of course not! But david was inspired of God to describe God's judgment on his persecutors as a coming in clouds. This was a well-known picture of God in the minds of Old Testament adherents.
In fact, the high priest knew very well that Jesus was saying he was God when He informed the priest that the man would see Christ come in clouds! He knew Jesus was telling him that Christ was correct and was the Son of God, and would come in judgment to destroy Jerusalem in his day!
Jesus did not use speech that the High Priest was unfamiliar with! He did not speak of a truth exclusively understood by the church to be a time of resurrection 2000 years later. He spoke very familiar words to the High Priest, and the High Priest knew exactly what Jesus was insinuating. And for that reason, the Priest cried, "Blasphemy!"
Matthew 26:64-65
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
The High Priest recalled these very scriptures I am citing in support of the understanding that coming in clouds referred to God coming in judgment. Jesus was saying He was the God of the Old Testament who came in judgment! Jesus not only informed the man that He was God, but also that Jerusalem would be judged just as she was judged in Old Testament times, and that using heathen armies.
Other examples of clouds being used to depict power, authority and judgment.
Psalm 97:2
Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
Jeremiah 4:13-14
Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness , that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Zephaniah 1:15-17
That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Revelation 10:1
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.
The phrase “on the clouds†is used in the Bible to denote a position of authority and power. Many, many times God used the imagery of being in clouds when He indicated He would come in judgment against a people.
Matthew 16:27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 24:30
They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
Matthew 26:63-64
But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven .
David described the time he cried to God when in trouble from his persecutors.
2 Samuel 22:7-14
In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried to my God: and he did hear my voice out of his temple, and my cry did enter into his ears. Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies. Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice.
God came in judgment against his enemies! David said God came with darkness beneath His feet and thick clouds of the skies were like pavilions or tabernacles around Him. And He rode upon a cherub.
Did David physically see these things? Of course not! But david was inspired of God to describe God's judgment on his persecutors as a coming in clouds. This was a well-known picture of God in the minds of Old Testament adherents.
In fact, the high priest knew very well that Jesus was saying he was God when He informed the priest that the man would see Christ come in clouds! He knew Jesus was telling him that Christ was correct and was the Son of God, and would come in judgment to destroy Jerusalem in his day!
Jesus did not use speech that the High Priest was unfamiliar with! He did not speak of a truth exclusively understood by the church to be a time of resurrection 2000 years later. He spoke very familiar words to the High Priest, and the High Priest knew exactly what Jesus was insinuating. And for that reason, the Priest cried, "Blasphemy!"
Matthew 26:64-65
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
The High Priest recalled these very scriptures I am citing in support of the understanding that coming in clouds referred to God coming in judgment. Jesus was saying He was the God of the Old Testament who came in judgment! Jesus not only informed the man that He was God, but also that Jerusalem would be judged just as she was judged in Old Testament times, and that using heathen armies.
Other examples of clouds being used to depict power, authority and judgment.
Psalm 97:2
Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
Jeremiah 4:13-14
Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness , that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee?
Nahum 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.
Zephaniah 1:15-17
That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Revelation 10:1
Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The abomination of desolation is when we see [spiritually] false religions now occupy the place of the True Worship of God. So Jesus said Matt 24:15
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )
The greek word for see here is eido and means to:
to see
a) to perceive with the eyes
b) to perceive by any of the senses
c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
It basically means to see or know by perception. It is the same word see in Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
The abomination of desolation is only going to be understood or perceived by some. Daniel says Dan 12:10
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand )
The greek word for see here is eido and means to:
to see
a) to perceive with the eyes
b) to perceive by any of the senses
c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover
It basically means to see or know by perception. It is the same word see in Jn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
The abomination of desolation is only going to be understood or perceived by some. Daniel says Dan 12:10
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
tim-from-pa
Member
- Aug 4, 2005
- 4,716
- 435
So, could you explain to all of us just how long a rod 6 cubits and a handbreadth is in spiritual terms? Perhaps 6 measures of joy and one measure of love?
Not to mention the detailed blueprint that bible scholars attempted to draw, but then again, they aren't draftsmen. That specific blueprint is all spiritual? 
Whoever made the point (it's not all that important anyway) about the Lord being the temple in Revelation is mentioning the new heavens and new earth. Ezekiel's temple I believe is in the millennium. It will appear in this same earth age. The end of Revelation is another earth age so Ezekiel's temple don't apply there.
L
Lehigh3
Guest
So, could you explain to all of us just how long a rod 6 cubits and a handbreadth is in spiritual terms? Perhaps 6 measures of joy and one measure of love?
Whoever made the point (it's not all that important anyway) about the Lord being the temple in Revelation is mentioning the new heavens and new earth. Ezekiel's temple I believe is in the millennium. It will appear in this same earth age. The end of Revelation is another earth age so Ezekiel's temple don't apply there.
A waste imho, but where do you see Ezekiel prophesying a literal millennium?
Prove it or realize & learn that prophecy is a spiritual description by God. Are you spiritual enough to to discern that about the prophets?
Dispensationalism is on its way out bc ppl are wising up to its nonsensical & deliberate, delusional fiction. Very obvious to the educated person- Christian or not!
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
i will bite this. since i dont think that the law will be in place during the millenium as the torah type. but to say that god couldnt have one large worship facility with a milliong churches elsewhere kinda like with the levites were for in each town in the days of isreal isnt that far off.So, could you explain to all of us just how long a rod 6 cubits and a handbreadth is in spiritual terms? Perhaps 6 measures of joy and one measure of love?
Whoever made the point (it's not all that important anyway) about the Lord being the temple in Revelation is mentioning the new heavens and new earth. Ezekiel's temple I believe is in the millennium. It will appear in this same earth age. The end of Revelation is another earth age so Ezekiel's temple don't apply there.
who is to say that ezekiel temple isn just that a literal temple for the lord who is in human form once again to be worshipped and recieves offerings of praise and tithes doesnt have a throne there? and likewise can be worshipped locally at the churches.
even in the days of the herodian temple there were synagouges all throughout judea. and these were formed from the first diaspora and kept in use to this current diaspora. the law was taught and meetings as they were the center of jewish community.
i am not a pre-tribber. and i dont understand it all ,but i dare not say that tim is totally off. we dont know till we see it. just because we humans cant grasp it doesnt mean its not going to happen.
does one really have to understand God fully to believe in him? some of you want God to do what and how you want and APPEAR to put him in your box of understanding.
as far as the latter temple in revalation i am unsure if that is too be taken literal as john say like unto the description of God but that maybe for the light colors and appearences of the father in heaven on his throne.
spirtual measurements.
i think prayer is one spiritual cubit. sorry i couldnt resist.those measurements must have meanings to the jews, symbols ie what two fig trees stand for can be found in zephaniah and like wise any other symbol.but with the temple is that the case?the pattern is the same from the solomon temple to zerubbabel temple etc.
and if you want to be that attentive the very four living creatures in their arrangements is found also in how isreal was to line up around the moses tabernacle.
L
Lehigh3
Guest
The abomination of desolation is the same as it is written in Daniel 12.
The Romans surrounding Jerusalem to destroy it & the temple.
The same as where a dead body is, so there the eagles will gather in Luke. The Roman army had the eagle emblems.
End of story. That's the abomination spoken by the prophet Daniel. (Matt.24:15)
And this took place about AD 67.
The Romans surrounding Jerusalem to destroy it & the temple.
The same as where a dead body is, so there the eagles will gather in Luke. The Roman army had the eagle emblems.
End of story. That's the abomination spoken by the prophet Daniel. (Matt.24:15)
And this took place about AD 67.
n2thelight
Member
- Jun 27, 2007
- 2,534
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- Thread starter
- #72
Dang,here we go again
Okay,Paul said the change comes at the last trump(7th),I asked you has this trump sounded,you said yes,so my question remains
Why are we still in flesh bodies,you keep saying when we go from this life to the next,however when that trump sounds,this life will be the next!!!!!
You say I just won't accept the answer you give,my question to you is,how can I?Tell you what,why don't you just tell me what Paul meant when he said we would be changed.......
n2thelight
Member
- Jun 27, 2007
- 2,534
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- Thread starter
- #73
Simple question....Will Christ ever set foot on this earth again,or will we just see Him when we die?
I love this thread... 
Sinthesis
Member
- Feb 23, 2009
- 5,188
- 264
So, could you explain to all of us just how long a rod 6 cubits and a handbreadth is in spiritual terms? Perhaps 6 measures of joy and one measure of love?
Whoever made the point (it's not all that important anyway) about the Lord being the temple in Revelation is mentioning the new heavens and new earth. Ezekiel's temple I believe is in the millennium. It will appear in this same earth age. The end of Revelation is another earth age so Ezekiel's temple don't apply there.
Yep!
It's an idealized temple meant to exist beyond the horizon of Ezekiel's Jewish readers. Ezekiel's vision complements John's. I understand that you've got a lot invested in your beliefs about the future; thats OK. So where do you believe Ezekiel's temple will be built?
Stormcrow
Member
- Apr 1, 2011
- 3,005
- 15
What part of "His coming wasn't for us" aren't you grasping? What part of "we go straight to the Father, passing from 'life to life'" don't you understand?
n2thelight
Member
- Jun 27, 2007
- 2,534
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- Thread starter
- #77
I understand all of it,however had He came already we would be changed now,meaning the death of the flesh would be over...What part of we will not all sleep(die)don't you understand?
Had He came we would not still be passing from life to life,we would be at that life now.....
We who are living ,right now today,will either die and be with Him,or we shall be changed when He comes here......
Where are all these people from the below verse
1 Thessalonians 4:14
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
They should be here on earth right now today,if the 7th trump had sounded.....
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Stormcrow
Member
- Apr 1, 2011
- 3,005
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No, you still don't get it: His coming in 70AD wasn't to put an end to "death of the flesh." It was to execute judgment upon Jerusalem and the "wicked generation" that rejected Him. It was to bring vengeance for the Old Covenant, according to Leviticus 26:
{23} 'And if by these things you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, {24} then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins. {25} ~'I will also bring upon you a sword which will execute vengeance for the covenant; and when you gather together into your cities, I will send pestilence among you, so that you shall be delivered into enemy hands. Leviticus 26:23-25 (NASB)
What did Christ tell them would happen to them in the parable of the landowner (Matthew 21)?
What did Christ tell them would happen to them in Matthew 23???
What did He tell the souls under the altar in Revelation 6???
He told both disciple and Sanhedrin alike He was going to return "on the clouds in power and great glory."
And He returned to fulfill the promise of the resurrection made to prophets like Daniel (chap. 12) and others:
{6} "The LORD kills and makes alive; He brings down to Sheol and raises up. 1 Samuel 2:6 (NASB)
You don't need a resurrection because your soul does not sleep when you pass from this life!
Once you understand the nature and purpose of Sheol (Hades) and Gehenna (Tartarus), you'll see why those who died before Christ needed a resurrection. We don't. We go straight to the Father and get new, eternal bodies the moment we leave this life!
You can't understand this because it's not what Scofield and Evangelicalism have taught, but it is EXACTLY what the apostles were looking forward to in their lifetime!
n2thelight
Member
- Jun 27, 2007
- 2,534
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- Thread starter
- #80
Nope, Im still not understanding...So let me go this way right quick....When does Christ come back to this earth and stay,ruling from Jerusalem?
At work now,will address those passages in your above post when I get home...
Also,let me say this I believe most of what you have been saying,its just that you don't understand that it shall happen again......