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abomination of desolation

so God is letting his creation that sent his son to redeem as well die out? you do release that earth and the sun will become void of energy sooner or later.

uh, i listen to a reformer who is amillienal and even he believes that christ is going to redeem the physical earth and our bodies upon his return.

so let me guess

john 3:16 for so god loved isreal(as that is only the land he came to judge) that he sent his only..

sorry.so God cant restore men to live in the flesh forever?wasnt that his plan in the first place ere the fall that there was no death.

what of isiahs prophecy on animals being herbovores again?

i wonder what the preterist tells the sinner who asks, dont worry God already judged men, surely in the attacks on jerusalem there were both jew and gentiles that died. and of those gentiles where are they?
 
When does Christ come back to this earth and stay,ruling from Jerusalem?
Read the following carefully and you tell me:

{1} Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, {2} a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. {3} For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.

{4} Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; {5} who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."

{6} But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

{7}
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. Hebrews 8:1-7 (NASB)

{13} When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)

It vanished completely in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple. The Kingdom of God, wherein God reigned on earth through the Temple, was returned to the Father in heaven who then made those who believe in Christ part of it, with Christ being the head of it, His church.

We have all the power of God we need to live our lives abundantly through the Holy Spirit. Christ did not leave us or forsake us: He sent His Holy Spirit to comfort and lead us into all truth.

People looking for Christ to return again to reign on earth today are making the same mistake the Jews made when they were seeking a king to lead them out of bondage to Rome.

He told us His kingdom is not of or from this world, and that flesh and blood cannot inherit His kingdom. Why? Because His kingdom is in heaven, where He continues to serve in its tabernacle to this very day, interceding on our behalf and preparing that place for us as He promised.

Hope this helps.
 
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lol. i will let drew answer that his kingdom is only in heaven. so god doest reign over the earth right now?

here.

when did the death that john saw and hell(sheol) get cast into the lake of fire? and rome being the beast that nero was part why did it surive 200 yrs after the fact?

also can you tell me why a christian who was martryed in rome wasnt raised from the dead if they died ere ad 70?

and uh whether that temple that comes from heaven is literal or not it still comes to the earth? if that was a future event and as lehigh3 says an acess to God then why would John see what happened in the past?given that we have already predeath been ressurected?

most pretribber dont see us in heaven forever and ever.

how can death still be on this earth if its spiritual and was cast into the fire in a70? no more sorrow right? ok so if its only the earth can you tell me why John saw that after death was destroyed? was there not sorrow in his day and

here he wasnt redeemed via the coming of the lord.but died a natural death.

John the Apostle
was the son of Zebedee, a fisherman on the Lake of Galilee, and of Salome, and brother of James, also an apostle. Peter and James and John come within the innermost circle of their Lord's friends; but to John belongs the distinction of being the disciple whom Jesus loved. He hardly sustains the popular notion, fostered by the received types of Christian art, of a nature gentle, yielding, feminine. The name Boanerges, Mr 3:17 implies a vehemence, zeal, intensity, which gave to those who had it the might of sons of thunder. [JAMES] The three are with our Lord when none else are, in the chamber of death,
Mr 5:37 in the glory of the transfiguration, Mt 17:1 when he forewarns them of the destruction of the holy city, Mr 13:3 in the agony of Gethsemane. When the betrayal is accomplished, Peter and John follow afar off. Joh 18:15 The personal acquaintance which exited between John and Caiaphas enables him to gain access to the council chamber, praetorium of the Roman procurator. Joh 18:16,19,28 Thence he follows to the place of crucifixion, and the Teacher leaves to him the duty of becoming a son to the mother who is left desolate. Joh 19:26,27 It is to Peter and John that Mary Magdalene first runs with the tidings of the emptied sepulchre, Joh 20:2 they are the first to go together to see what the strange words meant, John running on most eagerly to the rock-tomb; Peter, the least restrained by awe, the first to enter in and look. Joh 20:4-6 For at least eight days they continue in Jerusalem. Joh 20:26 Later, on the Sea of Galilee, John is the first to recognize in the dim form seen in the morning twilight the presence of his risen Lord; Peter the first to plunge into the water and swim toward the shore where he stood calling to them. Joh 21:7 The last words of John's Gospel reveal to us the deep affection which united the two friends. The history of the Acts shows the same union. They are together at the ascension on the day of Pentecost. Together they enter the temple as worshippers, Ac 3:1 and protest against the threats of the Sanhedrin. ch Ac 4:13 The persecution which was pushed on by Saul of Tarsus did not drive John from his post. ch. Ac 8:1 Fifteen years after St. Paul's first visit he was still at Jerusalem, and helped to take part in the settlement of the great controversy between the Jewish and the Gentile Christians. Ac 15:6 His subsequent history we know only by tradition. There can be no doubt that he removed from jerusalem and settled at Ephesus, though at what time is uncertain. Tradition goes on to relate that in the persecution under Domitian he is taken to Rome, and there, by his boldness, though not by death, gains the crown of martyrdom. The boiling oil into which he is thrown has no power to hurt him. He is then sent to labor in the mines, and Patmost is the place of his exile. The accession of Nerva frees him from danger, and he returns to Ephesus. Heresies continue to show themselves, but he meets them with the strongest possible protest. The very time of his death lies within the region of conjecture rather than of history, and the dates that have been assigned for it range from A.D. 89 to A.D. 120.

John the Apostle - Meaning of John the Apostle in Smiths Bible Dictionary (Bible History Online)

so john missed that bus. he wasnt transformed till after ad 70. and peter mentions that after christ comes there will be a new heavean and earth wherein dwelleth rightenous
2 peter 3
6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.




so i guess the full preterist ignore this promise to look for that as we have it already and if that was done at the cross where we already have that why then were we look for it. one doesnt look for salvation , you already have it.
 
so God cant restore men to live in the flesh forever?
Sure He can, but why would He? Adam was created in God's image and likeness, but we know God is spirit. Therefore, Adam was created as flesh from the dust of the ground, but as spirit from the breath of God.

The day Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit is the day their spirits died: they became separated from God, the source of their life, as demonstrated when He threw them out of the Garden.

So the redemption Christ was sent to undertake was the redemption of our spirits into the renewal of fellowship with God: fellowship we gain the moment we believe in Him!

But what about the flesh?

{50} Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:50 (NASB)

Our purpose here is to make people ready for the next life so that - whatever happens to this planet or its sun - they can enter into eternal life restored in fellowship with God.
 
most pretribber dont see us in heaven forever and ever.

Funny, since that's one of the verses pre-tribbers use to justify their belief in the rapture:

{17} Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (KJV)
 
Sure He can, but why would He? Adam was created in God's image and likeness, but we know God is spirit. Therefore, Adam was created as flesh from the dust of the ground, but as spirit from the breath of God.

The day Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit is the day their spirits died: they became separated from God, the source of their life, as demonstrated when He threw them out of the Garden.

So the redemption Christ was sent to undertake was the redemption of our spirits into the renewal of fellowship with God: fellowship we gain the moment we believe in Him!

But what about the flesh?

{50} Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 1 Corinthians 15:50 (NASB)

Our purpose here is to make people ready for the next life so that - whatever happens to this planet or its sun - they can enter into eternal life restored in fellowship with God.

First: It is the Holy Spirit that is stated as 'Holy Ghost or Spirit' not Jehovah or Christ/God. Gen. 3:22

And Second: History will be repeated! Eccl. 3:15. Adam & Eve had [PERFECT/NONE/SINFUL/FLESH/AND/BONES], and your quote came in AD 59! It is this Sinfull flesh & Bones that CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD!

We are told in Isa. that we will even build houses & plant vineyards. OH! Yes, and come to God for His 7th Day Sabbath Worship!:thumbsup Leaving the country home & coming into the City of God where there is NO NEED of the sun, huh!;)
 
We are told in Isa. that we will even build houses & plant vineyards.

{1} God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, {2} in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)

Isaiah was appointed by God to speak to Israel. WE are NOT Israel. Dispensationalism is "replacement theology" and it's precisely because people continue to see the church as Israel that this error keeps popping up.

I don't know about you, but if I had to plant a vineyard to survive, I wouldn't last very long. I'm not a vine-dresser or a vintner!
 
i will let drew answer that his kingdom is only in heaven. so god doest reign over the earth right now?

Of course he does! When have I ever written that He doesn't??? Show me the verses I have cited or the posts I have written that indicate otherwise! If you can't, then please retract this!
 
here he [John] wasnt redeemed via the coming of the lord.but died a natural death.

Yet the very moment his flesh died his spirit was in the presence of God, where he obtained his new, eternal body. Not my words: Paul's. If you have an issue with that, you should take it up with him.

peter mentions that after christ comes there will be a new heavean and earth wherein dwelleth rightenous

Tell me something: do you know the significance of the colors scarlet, blue and purple and why they were used in the temple? Do you know why the veil that separated the inner court from the Holy of Holies was made of these colors???

When you can answer these questions for yourself, you'll understand what Peter and John were writing when they wrote of a "new heavens and new earth."
 
Tell me something: do you know the significance of the colors scarlet, blue and purple and why they were used in the temple? Do you know why the veil that separated the inner court from the Holy of Holies was made of these colors???

When you can answer these questions for yourself, you'll understand what Peter and John were writing when they wrote of a "new heavens and new earth."
What an excellent way to teach that concept!:thumbsup
 
I'll even give folks here a hint:

{19} Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, {20} by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, {21} and since we have a great priest over the house of God, {22} let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Hebrews 10:19-22 (NASB)

Starting to see it? ;)
 
A waste imho, but where do you see Ezekiel prophesying a literal millennium? Prove it or realize & learn that prophecy is a spiritual description by God. Are you spiritual enough to to discern that about the prophets?

That's what I thought. No answer again. That's because it has a literal component. Simple as that. BTW, literal and physical has spiritual connections. The best of two worlds. But you see heads face up on the floor and are arguing there's no tails when I see both. I enjoy scripture interpretations regarding shadow of things to come. Where your problem lies is because you understand (as I do perfectly well) that there's a spiritual meaning, you then decide to truncate off literal manifestations of that. it's like faith. Faith is not some spiritual concept. It manifests itself in reality. Just ask James. And the same with the temple ---- a physical manifestation of something spiritual. They go together just as a man has a physical and spiritual self.



Dispensationalism is on its way out bc ppl are wising up to its nonsensical & deliberate, delusional fiction. Very obvious to the educated person- Christian or not!
:lol Yeah, I suppose to brainwashed, er, educated people it is. Just like the academia elite is running our country today and they claim it's getting "better" but I digress.

Speaking of education, I'll answer your question regarding the location of the temple if you answer this one first. The eastern USA (where I live) is Northwest of Israel. So, which direction is Israel from the USA where I live?
 
Read the following carefully and you tell me:

{1} Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, {2} a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. {3} For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer.

{4} Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; {5} who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN."

{6} But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

{7} For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. Hebrews 8:1-7 (NASB)

{13} When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)

It vanished completely in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple. The Kingdom of God, wherein God reigned on earth through the Temple, was returned to the Father in heaven who then made those who believe in Christ part of it, with Christ being the head of it, His church.

We have all the power of God we need to live our lives abundantly through the Holy Spirit. Christ did not leave us or forsake us: He sent His Holy Spirit to comfort and lead us into all truth.

People looking for Christ to return again to reign on earth today are making the same mistake the Jews made when they were seeking a king to lead them out of bondage to Rome.

He told us His kingdom is not of or from this world, and that flesh and blood cannot inherit His kingdom. Why? Because His kingdom is in heaven, where He continues to serve in its tabernacle to this very day, interceding on our behalf and preparing that place for us as He promised.

Hope this helps.

Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."


Zechariah 14:9 And the Lord shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name One."

Psalms 72:8 "He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, And from the river unto the ends of the earth."

Isaiah 2:2"And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it."

Isaiah 2:3 "And many people shall go and say, "come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths:" for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Isaiah 9:7 "Of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this."

Jeremiah 3:17 "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart."

Jeremiah 3:18 "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers."


Luke 1:32 "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:"


Luke 1:33 "And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end."

If Christ was ruling now,I would say He's doing one heck of a bad job!!!!


 
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Speaking of education, I'll answer your question regarding the location of the temple if you answer this one first. The eastern USA (where I live) is Northwest of Israel. So, which direction is Israel from the USA where I live?
:nag Ezekiel didn't prophesy where you live. If you can't glean from scripture where on the globe your hoped for literal, physical, Ezekiel's temple is to be, then just admit it.
 
:nag Ezekiel didn't prophesy where you live. If you can't glean from scripture where on the globe your hoped for literal, physical, Ezekiel's temple is to be, then just admit it.


"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto DAVID a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice IN THE EARTH. In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His Name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Jeremiah 23:5-6).
 
Breathtaking. :shame


Luke 1:31 "And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a Son, and shalt call His name JESUS."



Luke 1:32 "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of His father David:"


Luke 1:33 "And He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of His kingdom there shall be no end."

Are we now living in the new Heaven and earth?
 
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"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto DAVID a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice IN THE EARTH. In His days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His Name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" (Jeremiah 23:5-6).

You do realize that Jeremiah was prophesying to the captives in Babylon after Jerusalem and Solomon's Temple were destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, right?

You do know that any promises made to Israel and Judah during that time point to the time of their restoration after the Babylonian captivity, right?

You do realize this is one of those promises, right? :nono2
 
Are we now living in the new Heaven and earth?

I am. I don't know about you.

If Christ was ruling now,I would say He's doing one heck of a bad job!!!!

Some people see the storm and say Christ is weak. Others see Christ and say, "What storm?"
 
Come on Storm,do you really believe you are living on the new earth right now?

You actually think Christ would have the following,

Sorrow
Pain
Rape
Murder
Wars
Hunger
Evil
lies
Deceite
Death

happening in His Kingdom?You would have the people saying,dang we could have stayed in Egypt

Have you been to the New Jerusalem?When did you sing the song of Mosses?

It's sad,to love God and be in my opinion worse than the scoffer's who say,where is the promise of your coming for you say,He's not coming at all.....

Guess I'll go to sleep on that one...Back on 2night.....
 
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