Abomination that makes Desolate, how do you see this as happening?

[Dorothy Mae]

Also there are reports that the stones for the Temple are already cut and just need to be blessed.
I always said Tabernacle... I haven't switched anything... but if I mis-typed... sorry.

You just did. See above.

Why would atheist Jews be part of the Temple predictions?
Why must all Jews need to be religious as a necessity for the Temples reconstruciton?

Israel is a democracy. Do you know what that means ?

Bones that are buried are not effected by fire on the surface.
Bones in an ossuary are protected even more.
If they are trying to get dinosaur DNA... 2000 year old samples are almost brand new.
DNA has been recovered that is stated to be 500,000 years old... 2000 years... easy.

No, it has a half life of 1/2 century. It degrades. You don’t get any science news, do you?

Works for DNA... living or dead.

I am just checking how up on current events you are.
If that is an insult... then everything is.

Will ask you about your awareness of information but so far, science is obviously not your field.

That is the strawman you are building.
Did I say anything about superman?
Never thought I would be typing superman on a Christian forum.
The structure of power would need to be in place for a person to assume control over.

Not even close to being there.

Also the basic mentality of the world is shifting towards authoritarian structures that make takeover possible.

No it’s definitely not. Do you get the news? Protests against government authorities everywhere.

So what does it have to do with the Anti-Christ... the world is going the way of authoritarian control... and that makes a single leader an acceptable state of affairs for the general public that is calling for top down control.

Definitely not. Didn’t you get any info in the Covid years? Major protests against the tyranny…major.

 

[dwb001]

You just did. See above.

Where above... use a post # reference. I will say MOST of the references I used were about the Tabernacle. Yes some may have been about the Temple. What is the difference in function between the two?

Israel is a democracy. Do you know what that means ?

So the atheists may find it good to appease the religious minority by giving them a place to worship.
Democracy sometimes gives the minority what they want.
So Temple is back on the table.

No, it has a half life of 1/2 century. It degrades. You don’t get any science news, do you?

1/2 life is for radioactive material. Also every reference out there that I found says the upper limit for recovering DNA is .4 to 1.5 million years. I don't know what news source you are using.

Will ask you about your awareness of information but so far, science is obviously not your field.

Yours neither.

Not even close to being there.

Yes very close.

No it’s definitely not. Do you get the news? Protests against government authorities everywhere.

I apparently get different news than you do. Try listening to other sources of information that just what comes on the tellie.

Definitely not. Didn’t you get any info in the Covid years? Major protests against the tyranny…major.

And major... major compliance.
Why would there be a protest unless the thing being protested against was winning.
You don't protest when you are getting your way.

 

[Highway54]

How do armies surrounding a city become an abomination that causes desolation?

That’s one futurist view. Doesn’t answer my question, though.

How do armies surrounding a city become an abomination that causes desolation?

God inspired Luke to render Jesus' words understandably. Same words of Jesus that Mat penned, but Luke gave an understandable rendering of it maam.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

God inspired Luke to render Jesus' words understandably. Same words of Jesus that Mat penned, but Luke gave an understandable rendering of it maam.

But what you say is not what Luke said, sir. That’s a mistake you are making, that you assume what you think is actually what they said.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Where above... use a post # reference. I will say MOST of the references I used were about the Tabernacle. Yes some may have been about the Temple. What is the difference in function between the two?

So the atheists may find it good to appease the religious minority by giving them a place to worship.

Why?

Democracy sometimes gives the minority what they want.
So Temple is back on the table.

Rare. It’s expensive and so
far unlikely. In any case, futurist can relax as no doom and gloom until a temple is built.

1/2 life is for radioactive material.

No, it is also for bonds that deteriorate with time. DNA becomes useless when it breaks down.

Also every reference out there that I found says the upper limit for recovering DNA is .4 to 1.5 million years. I don't know what news source you are using.

No way. Biological material breaks down. The red blood cells recovered from a dino marrow through the scientific community into a fit because RBCs don’t last millions of years. We are doing DNA research and blood needs to be especially preserved and frozen at -80C. Science is not your field.

Yours neither.

Yes, I work in science.

Yes very close.

I apparently get different news than you do. Try listening to other sources of information that just what comes on the tellie.

I don’t even watch the tellie but through work have access to scientific articles. I read original published papers if I choose.

And major... major compliance.
Why would there be a protest unless the thing being protested against was winning.
You don't protest when you are getting your way.

Ok, we can move on. We’ve probably covered enough.

 

[dwb001]

Why?

Because not all Christians are nice and not all Atheists are evil.

Rare. It’s expensive and so
far unlikely. In any case, futurist can relax as no doom and gloom until a temple is built.

I don't understand your point.
What about the rest of Revelation?
Why are you so fixated on the Temple?

No, it is also for bonds that deteriorate with time. DNA becomes useless when it breaks down.

No way. Biological material breaks down. The red blood cells recovered from a dino marrow through the scientific community into a fit because RBCs don’t last millions of years. We are doing DNA research and blood needs to be especially preserved and frozen at -80C. Science is not your field.

Why do so many sources state they have found DNA from Neanderthals?
If it all breaks down... what did they find?

Yes, I work in science.

No person who is really in the field would say "they work in science"... that is like saying "I work in gravity".
Being a janitor or secretary at a college does not make one a scientist specialising in ancient DNA.

I don’t even watch the tellie but through work have access to scientific articles. I read original published papers if I choose.

Maybe you should read some of those papers.
Maybe quoting an actual source might give your position some merit.

Ok, we can move on. We’ve probably covered enough.

But I am still talking here.
And you asked for my opinion.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Because not all Christians are nice and not all Atheists are evil.

You can think the majority (atheists)!are willing to spend millions on a religious site instead of defense, but I think it unlikely.

I don't understand your point.
What about the rest of Revelation?
Why are you so fixated on the Temple?

Because those who deny the past fulfillment require every single detail be fulfilled and the temple is a major factor. It’s not a small minor detail.

Why do so many sources state they have found DNA from Neanderthals?

Doesn’t mean they find vial DNA they can trace to living people. There are DNA fragments and there’s viable DNA from which there’s information. But no biological molecule held with breakable bonds last millions of years.

If it all breaks down... what did they find?

Bits and pieces. Or little DNA.

No person who is really in the field would say "they work in science"... that is like saying "I work in gravity".
Being a janitor or secretary at a college does not make one a scientist specialising in ancient DNA.

What do you want? I’m not a PhD but am a published author in a peer reviewed journal. You can belittle it if you choose that strategy.

Maybe you should read some of those papers.
Maybe quoting an actual source might give your position some merit.

Your level of scientific understanding is pretty low.

But I am still talking here.
And you asked for my opinion.

Ok, let’s move on. You and others want it to be future so that’s pretty strong armor.

 

[dwb001]

You can think the majority (atheists)!are willing to spend millions on a religious site instead of defense, but I think it unlikely.

Why would atheists have to spend any money on the Temple?
Ever hear of crowdfunding?

Because those who deny the past fulfillment require every single detail be fulfilled and the temple is a major factor. It’s not a small minor detail.

That wasn't your previous post.
You are shifting the goalposts.

Doesn’t mean they find vial DNA they can trace to living people. There are DNA fragments and there’s viable DNA from which there’s information. But no biological molecule held with breakable bonds last millions of years.

Bits and pieces. Or little DNA.

Enough to determine ancestry. Don't have to grow a clone.

What do you want? I’m not a PhD but am a published author in a peer reviewed journal. You can belittle it if you choose that strategy.

Your level of scientific understanding is pretty low.

Prove it.

Ok, let’s move on. You and others want it to be future so that’s pretty strong armor.

You are the one who asked for my input.
If you didn't want the feedback why did you ask the question?
And now you want to shut down discussion because... why?
Is your position so strong that you think you have made your point?
Or are you wandering into uncertain territory?

 

[Edward]

1. How can there be an abomination placed in the temple when there is no temple? Do you believe Israel will tear down the Dom of the rock and build a temple there? (This is very unlikely as the Muslims will not take that lying down.)

The DOR may get blown up but it wont get torn down for room for the temple. They will make a compromise in building the temple. The can build the temple right beside of the dome and the two temples will coexist for a short while. The only hitch is...

They will only build the inner court and Holy place and leave that area open to make room for the dome...and that area is given over to the gentiles and it shall be trodden on forty two months. The temple will be built during the first part of the tribulation. Then in the middle of the tribulation the antichrist comes in the temple and declares himself god and that is the abomination of desecration.

2. What kind of abomination could be placed there that is so bad, it causes the Jews (most of whom are actually atheists today*) to be desolate (a very deep depression.)

The antichrist going into their temple and declaring himself god and demanding worship.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Why would atheists have to spend any money on the Temple?
Ever hear of crowdfunding?

That wasn't your previous post.
You are shifting the goalposts.

Enough to determine ancestry. Don't have to grow a clone.

Prove it.

You are the one who asked for my input.
If you didn't want the feedback why did you ask the question?
And now you want to shut down discussion because... why?
Is your position so strong that you think you have made your point?
Or are you wandering into uncertain territory?

Not in the least. But you think anything is possible in full defiance of reality. It seems pointless then. I saw again people protesting their government and it was totally effective, for example. You insist people are ready for a one man tyranny and the exact opposite is happening around the world. You think the atheist Israelis will freely spend millions on a temple in full defiance of past decisions. You have an eschatology and reality has no impact. If a person just imagines things ignoring reality, it’s pointless to discuss. The question assumes a certain amount of reality checks. You operate in fantasy so it is not what I’m asking.

 

[dwb001]

Not in the least. But you think anything is possible in full defiance of reality. It seems pointless then. I saw again people protesting their government and it was totally effective, for example. You insist people are ready for a one man tyranny and the exact opposite is happening around the world. You think the atheist Israelis will freely spend millions on a temple in full defiance of past decisions. You have an eschatology and reality has no impact. If a person just imagines things ignoring reality, it’s pointless to discuss. The question assumes a certain amount of reality checks. You operate in fantasy so it is not what I’m asking.

I have addressed all your points in previous posts with very realistic solutions.
Just because you can't see it... that is not my problem.
So if there are 10-20 million Jews in the world... how many would give $1-$5 to build their cultural Temple?
How many would give much more? So money is in no way a problem.

In my country... yes we are ready to follow one leader... all that is needed is a slightly greater than Covid emergency.

My eschatology is to believe that Revelation is true as written. It would appear that your eschatology is to allow the world to dictate what God can do.

I believe that anything is possible. I have a big view of God. You believe that public pressure can limit the power of the Almighty. That is what your statements above indicate.

 

[ezrider]

I am curious about this particular matter. For those who think this is in the future, how do you see it as playing out? Please don't fill the page with numerous scriptures. We all know the references in Daniel and Matthew. I am asking about how it is to be fulfilled, not where it is in scripture. So:

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


From Daniel, I can only conclude that because no one seems to understand, then we all must be wicked.


And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


What does it mean to make it desolate? What is the desolation we are talking about?

Isaiah 54:1
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Revelation 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


From Daniel, I can only conclude that because no one seems to understand, then we all must be wicked.


And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


What does it mean to make it desolate? What is the desolation we are talking about?

Isaiah 54:1
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Revelation 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

That isn’t what Daniel was saying, that a lack of understanding means one is wicked. That’s a logical fallacy.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I have addressed all your points in previous posts with very realistic solutions.
Just because you can't see it... that is not my problem.
So if there are 10-20 million Jews in the world... how many would give $1-$5 to build their cultural Temple?
How many would give much more? So money is in no way a problem.

In my country... yes we are ready to follow one leader... all that is needed is a slightly greater than Covid emergency.

My eschatology is to believe that Revelation is true as written. It would appear that your eschatology is to allow the world to dictate what God can do.

I believe that anything is possible. I have a big view of God. You believe that public pressure can limit the power of the Almighty. That is what your statements above indicate.

I have thought about it and my response to you was wrong. Please accept my apologies. You fairly answered the question I posed, which you rightly pointed out. Thank you for being kind and gracious in doing so. I did not deserve the kind response you gave.

I asked how your side deals with the that warning and you gave your answer. Fair enough. After reading that you are in Canada, I can agree that your county did completely give in to following one man. For those following the Covid Government responses, Canada is unique although one must say, the truckers protest was the one blemish on a record of complete submission. This was not the case in other countries but I can certainly see why you would draw the conclusions you did and I can see that as being reasonable in light of those events.

So I thank you for answering the questions posed. I would caution against using "God can" followed by anything we happen to think of. I say this because this line of thinking will prevent a believer from coming to know the ways of God as Moses and all the other men who wrote the Bible did. That God can do anything precludes asking what actually does and what He does not do. The "anything" is always "anything I can imagine" making the man in charge and God the servant. It is not a good way to think.

 

[ezrider]

That isn’t what Daniel was saying, that a lack of understanding means one is wicked. That’s a logical fallacy.

That's all you got out of my post? okay dokie

 

[Dorothy Mae]

That's all you got out of my post? okay dokie

No, I am sorry. Shall I go through the rest? I have repented...see below. (I am on the laptop and not my phone so I can write more but still, I did not do well in my first answer.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)


From Daniel, I can only conclude that because no one seems to understand, then we all must be wicked.

No, that is a logical fallacy. The measure of being wicked is not that a man does not understand. A wicked man already does not understand.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


What does it mean to make it desolate? What is the desolation we are talking about?

Since it is obvious something evil standing in the temple holy place, the desolation is obviously a Great Depression same as some events deeply affect people emotionally. They loved their dwelling of God among men place and to have something wicked there would cause deep emotional trauma. That seems to be the most likely answer to me.

Isaiah 54:1
Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear;
break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child:
for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.
Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

This is evidence of what I wrote. Desolate is very sad..despondent...depressed beyond comfort.

Revelation 18:7
How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously,
so much torment and sorrow give her:
for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Not sure what to say.

 

[ezrider]

From Daniel, I can only conclude that because no one seems to understand, then we all must be wicked.

No, that is a logical fallacy. The measure of being wicked is not that a man does not understand. A wicked man already does not understand.

Seems like we said the same thing. Too bad you can't recognize it. You said a wicked man already does not understand. If no one here seems to understand, then the conclusion is they are wicked. They certainly are not among the wise!

 

[ezrider]

Since it is obvious something evil standing in the temple holy place, the desolation is obviously a Great Depression same as some events deeply affect people emotionally. They loved their dwelling of God among men place and to have something wicked there would cause deep emotional trauma. That seems to be the most likely answer to me.

It seems you wish to identify the abomination without understanding the desolation. I look to understand the desolation first. The abomination would then reveal itself.

This is evidence of what I wrote. Desolate is very sad..despondent...depressed beyond comfort.

more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife. What does that mean to you? You know Israel was married to the Lord. But the Lord gave to them a bill of divorce. Seems to me sometime later, they killed Him.

Not sure what to say.

for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow

She thinks she is still married to the Lord, believing she is no widow. But her husband is dead, and she is now desolate, along with her children.

Do you understand the allegory Paul presents in the book of Galatians? The two covenants?

Romans 7:1-5
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I have addressed all your points in previous posts with very realistic solutions.
Just because you can't see it... that is not my problem.

I understand your position perfectly. That fact that you have to resort to saying God can do anything (you imagine) tells me that it is very unlikely otherwise. So I probably see it better than you do.

So if there are 10-20 million Jews in the world... how many would give $1-$5 to build their cultural Temple?

Why haven't they done so?

How many would give much more? So money is in no way a problem.

Why haven't they done so? It has been over 80 years. Whole generation dead and gone.

In my country... yes we are ready to follow one leader... all that is needed is a slightly greater than Covid emergency.

Yes, I agree. Sad but true. But the whole world if grateful to Canada for Jordan Peterson. Thank you for that son of Canada!

My eschatology is to believe that Revelation is true as written. It would appear that your eschatology is to allow the world to dictate what God can do.

No, my eschatology is to believe that Revelation is true as written and happened just as written. It would appear that your eschatology is to discredit the fulfilled and imagine instead, dictating to God, what he needs to do. Hop to it, God!

I believe that anything is possible. I have a big view of God. You believe that public pressure can limit the power of the Almighty. That is what your statements above indicate.

Well, I know the ways of God and know what He does and what He does not do. I am thoroughly acquainted with his ways in scripture.

It seems you wish to identify the abomination without understanding the desolation. I look to understand the desolation first. The abomination would then reveal itself.

Desolation is a common word. I do not need to explore what it means.

more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife. What does that mean to you? You know Israel was married to the Lord. But the Lord gave to them a bill of divorce. Seems to me sometime later, they killed Him.

No, they killed Jesus first and the He divorced them during the time of great tribulation (revelation.) But yes, the children of the Lord among the gentiles are more than Israelis believers, true.

for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen,
and am no widow

She thinks she is still married to the Lord, believing she is no widow. But her husband is dead, and she is now desolate, along with her children.

Her husband was divorcing her but otherwise I agree. And that is a pretty astute observation. Thank you.

Do you understand the allegory Paul presents in the book of Galatians? The two covenants?

Romans 7:1-5
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Yes, I do and am glad to find another who does. It would be a thread on its own. But the Zioinist Christians will not like it, I assure you. The subject is quite fascinating.