Another Perspective on this Temple Issue

[Eugene]

To us, what is the Holy place? It certainly cannot be an earthly temple; the holy place represents God. But it can be the holy place Satan has always sought, or aspired to and that is to be above God. I have no doubt those unbelieving Jews that the antichrist makes a covenant with at that time will construct some manner of temple; religiousness must always present a show of their false righteousness.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Revelation 13:6. "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saint and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Revelation 13:8. "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Excerpt of Study of Revelation by Gene Hawkins.
Now we've reached this place here where that this image of the beast is set up, and this is in fulfillment of Matthew 24:15. "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand" Also Daniel 9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate," and Daniel 12:11. "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." All three are citations of how the antichrist is going to have his image set up or standing in the holy place in the temple. The temple becomes the center or focus of attention at this time and this is exactly what Satan wants to capture because he has always wanted to be worshipped as God, and here is his puppet the antichrist that is going to bring that forth.

 

[reba]

"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away

are they doing daily sacrifices daily?

 

[Edward]

I have always considered"10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" to mean he was in a state of a vision.... not sure the grammar is right.... John was in the upper room i believe, he was baptized in the spirit so believing this is a bit more , for lack of better term is not a stretch...to me... Sorta agree with ya Edward

I hear ya'. I'm just now learning this stuff myself reba!

 

[Edward]

are they doing daily sacrifices daily?

Psalm 141:2
Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice./

During the times of the tabernacle and the temple, the continual sacrifice was done twice daily. Once in the morning and again in the evening on the third and ninth hours. There is a lot of prophetic significance to this, include Yeshua’s crucifixion that occurred on the third hour and his death happening on the ninth hour of the day. But there is something else, something we are supposed to be doing… – prayer.
Did you know that Orthodox Jews today pray daily at the Temple Mount at those times? Without fail, Orthodox Jews will go and stand at the Western Wall in Jerusalem and offer up their daily sacrifice of prayer on the third and ninth hours of the day.

As one perspective. The other is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e46_a00Y0u4

 

[reba]

Edward have the daily sacrifices stopped? the answer is yes

 

[jasoncran]

Psalm 141:2
Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense; and the lifting up of my hands as the evening sacrifice./

During the times of the tabernacle and the temple, the continual sacrifice was done twice daily. Once in the morning and again in the evening on the third and ninth hours. There is a lot of prophetic significance to this, include Yeshua’s crucifixion that occurred on the third hour and his death happening on the ninth hour of the day. But there is something else, something we are supposed to be doing… – prayer.
Did you know that Orthodox Jews today pray daily at the Temple Mount at those times? Without fail, Orthodox Jews will go and stand at the Western Wall in Jerusalem and offer up their daily sacrifice of prayer on the third and ninth hours of the day.

As one perspective. The other is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=e46_a00Y0u4

prayer isn't that. the daily sacrifices were for the priests and also worship offerings and other commanded offerings, but often so ignored in Christianity is that the law never said that the animals were the only way to atone. think about killing each animal for each sin you did daily. how on earth would have an animal to eat? let alone offer the next day. I will assume on lamb for one sin daily. one would have to offer 365 animals a year.

 

[Edward]

Edward have the daily sacrifices stopped? the answer is yes

The animal sacrifices have stopped. Will they start them up again if they build another literal temple? The video says they plan to.

prayer isn't that. the daily sacrifices were for the priests and also worship offerings and other commanded offerings, but often so ignored in Christianity is that the law never said that the animals were the only way to atone. think about killing each animal for each sin you did daily. how on earth would have an animal to eat? let alone offer the next day. I will assume on lamb for one sin daily. one would have to offer 365 animals a year.

I thought about that. That's a LOT of animals. Didn't they do two per day? That's 730 per year! Whoa. (Might've been one a day, I'm not sure.)

 

[reba]

Any one can kill an animal put it on an alter and say it is a sacrifice. Would such be honored by God ... I say No very loudly.... Jesus was/is THEE Lamb of God. What a slap in the face of God to even want another blood sacrifice.

 

[jasoncran]

The animal sacrifices have stopped. Will they start them up again if they build another literal temple? The video says they plan to.



I thought about that. That's a LOT of animals. Didn't they do two per day? That's 730 per year! Whoa. (Might've been one a day, I'm not sure.)

uhm no, its not much at all. It was for when they had to go to the temple or tabernacle to pray to god and get close to him. that function of the alter wasn't for atonement all the time. it was for those feasts and those that came to petition god. you could then pray wherever and also at times needed a priest to petition with you. you could and did have to offer something for that but really it logically cant be all the time.

 

[Ryan]

Wow. Ummmm yeah. That's certainly a different perspective. I don't agree with his timing and calendar at all. This, to me, is a classic example of piecemealing scripture to fit one's notions.

I'm not going to even begin to comment as the differences in his calendar mathematics and mine are so different that I'd need to write a book. I will say one thing. Based on both scripture and stone, Christ lived 12240 days, which is 33.5 solar years, exactly 34 prophetic years. It's that, plus the timing of this birth (Rev 12:1) and the day of the crucifixion I could calculate very accurate dates of his birth and death, which BTW, do not contradict history.

Where can I find these dates?

And I am confused what 34 prophetic years mean?

 

[tim-from-pa]

Where can I find these dates?

And I am confused what 34 prophetic years mean?

A prophetic year is just a buzz phrase in religious jargon meaning a year of 360 days, ie. 12 months of 30 days.

It is used when they talk about the days in Daniel and Revelation, such as 1260 days is also 42 months (42 x 30) or time, times and half of time, i.e. 1 + 2 + 1/2 = 3 1/2 years. etc. As much as I know about time and calendars, I must admit I am at a loss explaining this interval as an average lunation is 29.530589 days, and a tropical year 365.2422 days although many theories abound. Some I heard are quite plausible, others more fantastic such as the earth and moon's orbit changed and there were once exactly 360 days to a year and 30 days to a month (showing the misunderstanding of some, as no orbit is perfectly circular and coplanar, and therefore monthly and yearly variations would still occur)

However, it's the closest even (or I should say 'nice') integer to the number of days in a year, AND 12 lunar months of about 30 days. It is also where we got 360 degrees in a circle from.

 

[JLB]

I have already said that Jesus was crucified after the 69th week.

The 70th seven began with Christ baptism in AD 29 and three years later at the end of the first half of the 70th seven sacrifices and offering ceased because Christ hung on the cross as he was the final sacrifice that fulfilled the law. From the giving of the law in 458BC when Ezra went to establish the law, or to rebuild the Spiritual city right up to the cross were the first 69 sevens. The 70th seven is from the time of the cross until Jesus comes and gathers his bride as they prepare to stand in the Holy place until the overspreading of abominations he will make desolate, or make an end to all that would not repent.

In order to understand the whole seventy weeks you have to go back and study Ezra.

I am familiar with Ezra.

You say that you have said "Jesus was crucified after the 69th week"

You post does not reflect that truth.

Let me explain.

The 69th week ended on the event called Messiah the Prince.

This occurred on "palm Sunday" when the whole city proclaimed Hosanna to the son of David, and laid palm branches down before Him.

That was the day the 69th week ended.

In your post, you say the 70th week started 3 years prior in AD 29 at His Baptism.

When in fact the 69th week ended 5 days before He was crucified.

His Crucifixion as well as the destruction of the temple both occurred after the 69th week, yet the 70th week has not started.

As of verse 26 the prophecy has run to the year 70 AD, and yet the 70th week has not yet begun.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

JLB

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


This was Ezra rebuilding the literal Temple, but also prophetic of the Spiritual Temple making it ready for Messiah to return.


Daniel gives six major events that characterize the 490 years.


1. "to finish the transgression" Israel's rejection of Messiah as Israel is brought to restoration at the time of the second coming.


2. "to put an end to sin" The sins of National Israel will not be forgiven until the deliver comes out of Zion and a new covenant is given to them.


3. "made reconciliation for iniquity" Life, death an Resurrection we are now reconciled through the blood of Christ as the final sacrifice


4. "to bring in everlasting righteousness" This is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the earth and set up His kingdom.


5. "seal up the vision and prophecy" This will be the time when all prophecy is fulfilled and the Lord Jesus Christ will be Lord of Lord and King of Kings.


7. "anoint the Most Holy" The Lord Jesus Christ will be anointed when the temple is cleansed at the end of the 2520 days when He returns.


Daniel 8: 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Full 70 weeks which end with the return of Christ)


God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation period (not a seven year) as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years. (First half and second half of the 2300 days)

[Scripture reference]

Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7

1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6

42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5


The 70th begins with commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.


Ezra 1: 2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.


Messiah is cut-off at the crucifixion which is the 69th week. God set aside the wrath that will come in the 70th week and revealed the revelation of the mystery to the apostle Paul and we will be in that gap until the rapture of the church and then God will pour out his wrath upon the earth.


The command to rebuild Jerusalem was in 457BC. Daniel 9:25 says it took 7 weeks (49 years) to rebuild. This brings us to 408BC.

Then Daniel says 62 weeks later (434 years) Messiah will arrive. This brings us to 27AD which is the end of week 69 and start of week 70. (408 – 343 = -26. Add 1 year for year “0” and you come to 27AD)

Then Daniel 9:26 says Messiah is cut off in the midst of week 70. (31AD)

 

[JLB]

JLB

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


This was Ezra rebuilding the literal Temple, but also prophetic of the Spiritual Temple making it ready for Messiah to return.


Daniel gives six major events that characterize the 490 years.


1. "to finish the transgression" Israel's rejection of Messiah as Israel is brought to restoration at the time of the second coming.


2. "to put an end to sin" The sins of National Israel will not be forgiven until the deliver comes out of Zion and a new covenant is given to them.


3. "made reconciliation for iniquity" Life, death an Resurrection we are now reconciled through the blood of Christ as the final sacrifice


4. "to bring in everlasting righteousness" This is when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to the earth and set up His kingdom.


5. "seal up the vision and prophecy" This will be the time when all prophecy is fulfilled and the Lord Jesus Christ will be Lord of Lord and King of Kings.


7. "anoint the Most Holy" The Lord Jesus Christ will be anointed when the temple is cleansed at the end of the 2520 days when He returns.


Daniel 8: 14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (Full 70 weeks which end with the return of Christ)


God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation period (not a seven year) as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years. (First half and second half of the 2300 days)

[Scripture reference]

Revelation 12:14; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7

1260 days – Revelation 11:3; Revelation 12:6

42 months – Revelation 11:2; Revelation 13:5


The 70th begins with commandment to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.


Ezra 1: 2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.


Messiah is cut-off at the crucifixion which is the 69th week. God set aside the wrath that will come in the 70th week and revealed the revelation of the mystery to the apostle Paul and we will be in that gap until the rapture of the church and then God will pour out his wrath upon the earth.


The command to rebuild Jerusalem was in 457BC. Daniel 9:25 says it took 7 weeks (49 years) to rebuild. This brings us to 408BC.

Then Daniel says 62 weeks later (434 years) Messiah will arrive. This brings us to 27AD which is the end of week 69 and start of week 70. (408 – 343 = -26. Add 1 year for year “0” and you come to 27AD)

Then Daniel 9:26 says Messiah is cut off in the midst of week 70. (31AD)

Please explain this statement with scripture.

This was Ezra rebuilding the literal Temple, but also prophetic of the Spiritual Temple making it ready for Messiah to return.


Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

God speaks to us in scripture of a 3 1/2 year tribulation period (not a seven year) as being time, times and half time which equals 1260 days = 3 ½ years or 3 ½ Times – Hebrew calendar only had 30 days for each month and this is where you get 1260 days or 3 ½ years.

Amen!

 

[Deborah13]

Now that is very interesting. I had not considered that possibility before. Some say it's the stone temple, some, us believers. Perhaps both are right?! "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, (comma!) (then...) "stand in the holy place"...(In Christ. In the Spirit. Go into immediate prayer and get into the Spirit. Don't go down into the house first, drop and pray.)

Interesting take on this. I am going to ponder this.

Comma? Nope
The Greek had no pronunciation, no caps, no chapters, no verses. The translators added these. :wink

 

[Deborah13]

Any one can kill an animal put it on an alter and say it is a sacrifice. Would such be honored by God ... I say No very loudly.... Jesus was/is THEE Lamb of God. What a slap in the face of God to even want another blood sacrifice.

I agree.

 

[Edward]

Comma? Nope
The Greek had no pronunciation, no caps, no chapters, no verses. The translators added these. :wink

But of course! That would be too easy, lol.

 

[reba]

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Thoughts? on the veil? on the tearing of it? would a veil 'today' hold a place holy?

 

[Edward]

Mat 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
Thoughts? on the veil? on the tearing of it? would a veil 'today' hold a place holy?

My understanding of the veil is that the veils are ~36" thick (jason could perhaps confirm if this is so?) so it wouldn't be easy to tear it. Why it was torn in two, I *think* was to symbolize that now, there is no priestly mediator needed between the common man and God. Because of the advent of Jesus, we can now go directly to God ourselves (through Jesus!) to seek forgiveness. We don't have to go through the priest anymore.

Praise the Lord.