Are Calvinists the Only True Christians?

[billybalke]

That's understood....but he seems to misunderstand me when I say a denomination (church) can be part of the Church.

A denomination is a part of a whole. Why be a part of the whole when you can be in the "body" of the whole? Eph.1:22,23.

 

[Cygnus]

The truth is you believe Gills and disbelieve Jesus. The first half of Mark 16:16 tells us what to do to be saved, the last half of Mk.16:16 tells us what to do to be lost. If you wish to discuss it on the one-on-one we can get off this thread, I very much doubt you will do it. Maybe someone else will pick up the gauntlet??

With all due respect I would trust Gills view ..a learned christian theologian, commentator...rather than your opinion of what the verse says. Secondly, don't ever accuse me of disbelieving Christ because i don't agree with what you think Jesus said. Got it?

As to one-on-one...I've tried that with you and you didn't hold up your end of the bargain. You blew your chance.

 

[Cygnus]

A denomination is a part of a whole. Why be a part of the whole when you can be in the "body" of the whole? Eph.1:22,23.

The denomination you belong to isn't the same denomination I belong to. Are you saying that the people who are part of my denomination are not part of the Body of Christ? Church..capital "C"

 

[billybalke]

The denomination you belong to isn't the same denomination I belong to. Are you saying that the people who are part of my denomination are not part of the Body of Christ? Church..capital "C"

Where i the capital "C" found??

 

[billybalke]

With all due respect I would trust Gills view ..a learned christian theologian, commentator...rather than your opinion of what the verse says. Secondly, don't ever accuse me of disbelieving Christ because i don't agree with what you think Jesus said. Got it?

As to one-on-one...I've tried that with you and you didn't hold up your end of the bargain. You blew your chance.

As you will, sir. I'll still take Jesus over Gill.

 

[Cygnus]

Where i the capital "C" found??

Everywhere. The world is filled with Christians.

 

[Cygnus]

As you will, sir. I'll still take Jesus over Gill.

Then go get baptized.

 

[Seabass]

Dude, what is your problem?????
the Bible doesn't condemn denominations.
In fact I et you belong to a denomination.

Sure, there may be contradiction..or should I say, disagreements....but they all agree on theological issues such as Jesus being God.

Dude, what is your problem?????
the Bible doesn't condemn denominations.
In fact I et you belong to a denomination.

Sure, there may be contradiction..or should I say, disagreements....but they all agree on theological issues such as Jesus being God.
Why do you fail to understand that?

Why do you fail to understand that?

Yes, the bible condemns the idea of denominationalism.

The bible teaches Christ established one church that goes by one faith, (Eph 4:5) that is to have one mind (Phil 1:27; Rom 15:6); walk by the same rule (Phil 3:16), one way to be saved.


Yet denominationalism denies all this. They they teach there are many churchES, many faithS, many paths to heaven and the bible is only secondary to what one feels is right.

And the fact remains, they contradict each other is proof they cannot all have "the truth" (John 17:17). And what I have seen them do to get around the very big problem is tear many pages of the bible out and declare those pages as "non-essential" or "unnecessary". In other words, when I point out these groups contradict each other on issue A, they claim issue A is not important anyway. When I point out they contradict each other on issue B, they say issue B is not essential anyway. And on it goes with them declaring large chunks of the bible unimportant or non-essential for the sole purpose of trying to find unity in contradiction.

Yet the bible says every word of God is important (Matthew 4:4) all God's counsel is important (Acts 20:27) all of Christ's doctrine is important (2 John 2:9-10). Jeremiah said "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Yet denominations are trying to direct their own steps when trying to claim parts of God's word, God's counsel, Christ's doctrine is not important. They do not have the authority nor given the power to make the claim for others (much less for God) as to what is or is not important when it comes to God's word. Again, they are only doing this to find an excuse for the contradictions.

And they should not think the non-religious people out there do not see this and take note of it. The non-religious people see all these contradictions proving in their minds that the bible is fallible and Christianity is a lot of contradictory hypocrisy.

 

[Seabass]

There are many arguments against the requirement for baptism in water to be saved. Many. If you would like to talk about that..start a new thread....don't steal this thread to push your non-biblical arguments.

There are arguments against the necessity of water baptism in being saved but they are not logical, biblical though. Earlier I saw where you tried and use the old "thief argument" against the necessity of water baptism and that argument is not based on the bible/logic.

 

[Seabass]

Seabass can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is saying there is a difference between a church and the Church.

More specifically, I am saying there is a difference in the ONE church and man made organizations that are not part of the one church. one body.

 

[Cygnus]

More specifically, I am saying there is a difference in the ONE church and made made organizations that are not part of the one church. one body.

It sounds like your saying calvinist are not part of the "real" Church. Is that what you are saying?

 

[Seabass]

That's understood....but he seems to misunderstand me when I say a denomination (church) can be part of the Church.

A man made organization can never be the one church Christ established back on Pentecost 200 years ago that Christ died for and is the head of. You are still trying to create a multiplicity of churchES when there is just ONE church that goes by ONE faith. One = one.

 

[billybalke]

Everywhere. The world is filled with Christians.

• Not according to Jesus, Matt.7:13-15. About the capitol C, I thought you were talking about the word "church".

 

[Cygnus]

There are arguments against the necessity of water baptism in being saved but they are not logical, biblical though. Earlier I saw where you tried and use the old "thief argument" against the necessity of water baptism and that argument is not based on the bible/logic.

The thief is an excellent point and case. Saved with no water.

Others in the book of Acts are saved....THEN baptized.

Several verses in the bible present salvation with out even mentioning baptism. Romans 10:13 is an example with for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." Even the famous John 3:16 doesn't mention water baptism.
If baptism was a requirement then it would have been mentioned along side of those verses. But it's not.

But lets say it was a requirement. For the sake of the argument,.
We all know we can enter into heaven because of Jesus' righteousness being added to us. Jesus demonstrated His righteousness all through out the Gospels. The works that get us into heaven are Jesus' works...not ours. Jesus did for us what we can't do for ourselves. In fact if you want to argue that water baptism is a requirement..Jesus even did that for us fullfilling that requirement in our place just as Jesus died on the cross in out place.

So, to be honest....I wish you would give up on the water baptism requirement and discuss something else. It's getting old, boring and repetitive.
Thank you.

 

[billybalke]

It sounds like your saying calvinist are not part of the "real" Church. Is that what you are saying?

Personally I can't answer for Seabass but that is what I say. In fact, where is the word Calvin or Calvinism found in scripture. Calvin and his doctrine sifted into this world hundreds of years after the completion of the NT.

 

[Cygnus]

• Not according to Jesus, Matt.7:13-15. About the capitol C, I thought you were talking about the word "church".

Believers make up the Church...the body of Christ. These believers go to a church building on Sunday organized by many different denominations to worship.

It's really not that hard of a concept to grasp.

 

[billybalke]

Then go get baptized.

Thank you sir, but I have been.

 

[billybalke]

With all due respect I would trust Gills view ..a learned christian theologian, commentator...rather than your opinion of what the verse says. Secondly, don't ever accuse me of disbelieving Christ because i don't agree with what you think Jesus said. Got it?

As to one-on-one...I've tried that with you and you didn't hold up your end of the bargain. You blew your chance.

As for the one-on-one between you and me I'm happy to let our readers decide who "BLEW" it.

 

[Cygnus]

Personally I can't answer for Seabass but that is what I say. In fact, where is the word Calvin or Calvinism found in scripture. Calvin and his doctrine sifted into this world hundreds of years after the completion of the NT.

Who founded your denomination?
Was it Jacob Arminius?
Was it the British monk Pelagius?.........who? Was it Charles Taze Russell?

 

[billybalke]

Who founded your denomination?
Was it Jacob Arminius?
Was it the British monk Pelagius?.........who? Was it Charles Taze Russell?

I am not a member of any denomination.
Never heard of Jacob Arminius.
Never heard of Pelagius.
Charles Russell and Rutherford founded what is know today as the Jehovah's Witnesses. I am now engaged with a JW in my home. Hope to see him become a Christian.