Are Calvinists the Only True Christians?

[Gregg T]

Wrong. DEAD wrong.
Remember your dead in your sins and trespasses. You can't even come close to being obedient.
Regeneration MUST happen first. You must be born again.

Are your children obedient to your will? Are they remorseful when they disobey or lie? Do they respect your will and obey you? Do they demonstrate a trust in you, or a love for you? Do they respond to your just demands of them?

 

[Cygnus]

Okay, that time it was a question but we must use scripture to illustrate our points and you have made some unscriptural assertions without demonstrating why you believe these things.

Our opinions do not matter, however, we do have a free will, how else could we obey Matthew 3:2 & 4:7, Acts 3:19 & 1jon 3:23? Without a free will none of us could be saved, we are born in sin. (Palm 51:5, Romans 5:12, 3:10 & 3:23)

First off...If you're going to post scripture...post the scripture. Just don't post the chapter and verse.
The question is still out there...if we have a free-will to choose or reject Christ....what is the process for making that decision? When we buy a car we have a reason for buying a Ford instead of a Chevy.

 

[Cygnus]

Are your children obedient to your will? Are they remorseful when they disobey or lie? Do they respect your will and obey you? Do they demonstrate a trust in you, or a love for you? Do they respond to your just demands of them?

The answer to the above is yes and no. Why do you ask?

 

[Cygnus]

Are we still dancing around the abyss or have we taken the plunge? Matthew 7:1-3

What does Matt 7:1-3 say?

 

[Seabass]

Are you saying the baptist denomination....are not part o that one church? Or, is it just your denomination that is of the one church?

The one church Christ establish back in the first century is not a man made denomination.
You still reject there is just ONE body that goes by ONE faith

Then my friend...you are lost.

I obeyed the gospel

What?????

Does not Calvinistic election claim those that God chose can never be unchosen or those not chosen can never become chosen?

 

[Seabass]

So, your salvation is dependent on what you like or dislike?
Why if given free choice would someone dislike Christ and His salvation...and not choose Christ?

Salvation is determined by the bible. Some do not like it requires water baptism, why is that? It does not fit their preconceived ideas just as those in Acts 7 when they had the truth preached to them by Stephen, what he preached did not fit their preconceived ideas of Judaism and Stephens' condemnation of them, so they did not like it.

 

[Seabass]

Calvinistic predestination is biblical.
Johnny got it right.

No.

 

[Cygnus]

The one church Christ establish back in the first century is not a man made denomination.
You still reject there is just ONE body that goes by ONE faith

I agree, there is one body and one faith....I also understand there are denominations that are part of that one body and one faith.

I obeyed the gospel

There's a difference between saying you obey the gospel and you try to obey the gospel. I would say there is NOBODY who completely obeys the gospel like you claim you do.

Does not Calvinistic election claim those that God chose can never be unchosen or those not chosen can never become chosen?

Those chosen can never be unchosen.
As to whether or not someone not chosen from before the beginning of the world can become chosen....I don't know. My hunch is that they can't.
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. Romans 9

 

[Cygnus]

Salvation is determined by the bible. Some do not like it requires water baptism, why is that? It does not fit their preconceived ideas just as those in Acts 7 when they had the truth preached to them by Stephen, what he preached did not fit their preconceived ideas of Judaism and Stephens' condemnation of them, so they did not like it.

My view is this....if you are relying on water baptism to save you then you are relying on a false Gospel. but, that's off topic and for a different thread.

 

[billybalke]

My view is this....if you are relying on water baptism to save you then you are relying on a false Gospel. but, that's off topic and for a different thread.

Do you believe Jesus in Mark 16:15,16?

 

[Cygnus]

No.

Thanks for that information....I just got out my sharpie and drew a thick black line through the word predestination in my bible.

 

[Cygnus]

Do you believe Jesus in Mark 16:15,16?

Yes, I agree with mark 16. I just don't agree with what you do with the verse.

I agree with what Gills wrote....it is not essential to it; the thief on the cross, went to heaven without it, and Simon Magus to hell with it; but it is the duty of every one that believes, and he that truly believes, ought to be baptized, and prove the truth of his faith, by his obedience to Christ, and such shall be saved.

Keep in mind baptism is off topic here unless you can directly tie it into why it would make calvinism a cult.

 

[Seabass]

I agree, there is one body and one faith....I also understand there are denominations that are part of that one body and one faith.

The bible does not teach this. ONE = ONE. Eph 4:5 does not say one God made up of many different gods no more than it says one body made up of many different bodies. The bible condemns the man made idea of denominationalism.

ALso the fact they all contradict each other is proof they cannot all have the ONE faith.

There's a difference between saying you obey the gospel and you try to obey the gospel. I would say there is NOBODY who completely obeys the gospel like you claim you do.

Paul said in 1 Cor 15:3-4 that the gospel he preached was the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
How does one then obey the gospel, that is, how does one obey these historical events of a death burial and resurrection?

Paul explained in Rom 6 about baptism and obedience. Rom 6:17-18 one obeys from the heart that form of doctrine. A form is an outline, example. When one pours a concrete driveway one uses wood forms. The forms are not the driveway itself but a pattern of it. Paul explains in Romans 6:3-5 that water baptism is where the old man of sins dies, is buried and raised up from a watery grave to walk in newness of life. Therefore water baptism is a form of the gospel (death, burial, resurrection of Christ). So when one obeys the gospel in water baptism he is obeying that form of doctrine (water baptism) in a death burial and resurrection as Christ.

Those chosen can never be unchosen.
As to whether or not someone not chosen from before the beginning of the world can become chosen....I don't know. My hunch is that they can't.
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. Romans 9

If before the world began God chose certain people to be saved and the rest to be lost and if what God predetermined cannot be changed...then the Gentiles were not chosen in the OT. now they are chosen. The Jews were chosen under the OT but cast off as God's chosen. Evidently then God did not prefix, predetermine salvation for each person before the world began if one can go from unchosen to chosen or vice versa.

 

[Seabass]

My view is this....if you are relying on water baptism to save you then you are relying on a false Gospel. but, that's off topic and for a different thread.

This is why God will have a day of judgment to separate the ones that followed His word from those that rejected it.

The bible is to clear on the fact water baptism is necessary so much so I have never seen a biblical, logical argument against it. AS the thief is a not a biblical logical argument, it fails every time.

 

[Cygnus]

The bible does not teach this. ONE = ONE. Eph 4:5 does not say one God made up of many different gods no more than it says one body made up of many different bodies. The bible condemns the man made idea of denominationalism.

Dude, what is your problem?????
the Bible doesn't condemn denominations.
In fact I et you belong to a denomination.

ALso the fact they all contradict each other is proof they cannot all have the ONE faith.

Sure, there may be contradiction..or should I say, disagreements....but they all agree on theological issues such as Jesus being God.
Why do you fail to understand that?

 

[Cygnus]

The bible is to clear on the fact water baptism is necessary so much so I have never seen a biblical, logical argument against it. AS the thief is a not a biblical logical argument, it fails every time.

There are many arguments against the requirement for baptism in water to be saved. Many. If you would like to talk about that..start a new thread....don't steal this thread to push your non-biblical arguments.

 

[WIP]

Are you saying the baptist denomination....are not part o that one church? Or, is it just your denomination that is of the one church?

Seabass can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is saying there is a difference between a church and the Church.

 

[Cygnus]

Seabass can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is saying there is a difference between a church and the Church.

That's understood....but he seems to misunderstand me when I say a denomination (church) can be part of the Church.

 

[billybalke]

Yes, I agree with mark 16. I just don't agree with what you do with the verse.

I agree with what Gills wrote....it is not essential to it; the thief on the cross, went to heaven without it, and Simon Magus to hell with it; but it is the duty of every one that believes, and he that truly believes, ought to be baptized, and prove the truth of his faith, by his obedience to Christ, and such shall be saved.

Keep in mind baptism is off topic here unless you can directly tie it into why it would make calvinism a cult.

The truth is you believe Gills and disbelieve Jesus. The first half of Mark 16:16 tells us what to do to be saved, the last half of Mk.16:16 tells us what to do to be lost. If you wish to discuss it on the one-on-one we can get off this thread, I very much doubt you will do it. Maybe someone else will pick up the gauntlet??

 

[billybalke]

Seabass can correct me if I'm wrong but I think he is saying there is a difference between a church and the Church.

Yes, there is a difference between "a church" and the church in the scripture: Eph.1:16-23; Eph.4:4.