Jim Parker
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Those verses do not address grace vs. law.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Arminianism and Calvinism
- Thread starter GodsGrace
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Jim Parker
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no problem
ezra
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that is not what was posted in the post of coming to him..it said coming to him is no guarantee to be saved...salvation.. which is not scripture
- Jul 13, 2012
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saved by grace not by law , the sequel. 
This discussion seems to go around in circles, because you keep making false accusations about our beliefs.
No one is saved by works.
We are saved by grace through faith.
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Ephesians 2:8
- by grace you have been saved through faith
This refers to our initial salvation, when we are born again.
No one can do enough good works to earn the right to be born again.
There is simply no use in claiming that those who oppose Calvinism or OSAS, believe that a person can be born again because the work to earn this blessing.
We are born again through faith in Jesus Christ.
However, the condition for this is to believe.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1
JLB
- Jul 13, 2012
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what does this say if we come to him? John 6:37
“All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; {and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.}” if we come to Him we are guaranteed salvation scripture
He did not cast out the disciples who left, as they left of their own free will.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”
From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” John 6:65-69
These disciples choose to come to Jesus because it was granted to them by God.
They turned away from Him of the own free will.
JLB
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18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. Matthew 13:18-19
Were these that came to Jesus, to hear the word of God, saved?
JLB
ezra
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Yes the only way to be saved is Jesus.
However John 6 was brought up and I explained the context which was about an incident whereby some of his disciples that had been with Him for several years, turned away from following him.
He did not cast them out.
They simply chose to leave.
I don't think that particular scripture supports the theological position you are wanting to convey, since it shows those who come to him can indeed depart from Him.
Notice that Judas at this point continued to remain with Him, when other disciples had turned away from Him.
JLB
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Coming to Jesus to hear the Gospel and obey the Gospel and endure to the end with Him is how we will receive the salvation of our soul As the end result of our faith.
That is what I believe.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9
- receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
If you don't believe those who come to Jesus must obey the Gospel and endure to the end in order to receive the salvation of their soul, then please explain why.
JLB
This is what the Bible actually teaches, and very much so.
FACT #1 In John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:40,47, 11:25-27, 20:31 and 1 John 5:13, the Bible teaches that those who believe HAVE (as in current possession from the present tense) eternal life.
FACT #2 In John 10:28, Jesus said that recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
Therefore, since there are no verses about any "probationary" time period before receiving eternal life, it is clear that eternal life is given to those who believe WHEN they believe. This has not, because it cannot, been refuted or contradicted by any Scripture.
Therefore, WHEN one believes in Christ, they ARE saved, they HAVE eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish.
This are undenial facts. Directly supported by Scripture.
Just my 2 cents worth, if that, is that both Calvinism and Arminianism miss the mark on major doctrines.
Problems with Calvinism:
1. Christ died only for some, whatever one wishes to call them: frozen chosen, etc. 2 Cor 5:14,15, 19, Heb 2:9 and 1 John 2:2 plainly state that Christ's death was for everyone.
2. unconditional election is to salvation. If that were true, then faith is unnecessary for salvation. Salvation is DIRECTLY LINKED to faith in Jesus Christ. Eph 2:8,9, John 3:16, Acts 16:31. Election is to service, per Acts 9:15.
Problems with Arminianism:
1. one can lose salvation. However, from post #114, 11 verses were cited that teach that eternal life is possessed (present tense) by those who believe in Christ. Apart from any evidence of any kind of probationary time period before this gift is received, we know that it is received WHEN one believes. Then, Jesus plainly stated that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Slam dunk.
These are the major discrepancies.
Problems with Calvinism:
1. Christ died only for some, whatever one wishes to call them: frozen chosen, etc. 2 Cor 5:14,15, 19, Heb 2:9 and 1 John 2:2 plainly state that Christ's death was for everyone.
2. unconditional election is to salvation. If that were true, then faith is unnecessary for salvation. Salvation is DIRECTLY LINKED to faith in Jesus Christ. Eph 2:8,9, John 3:16, Acts 16:31. Election is to service, per Acts 9:15.
Problems with Arminianism:
1. one can lose salvation. However, from post #114, 11 verses were cited that teach that eternal life is possessed (present tense) by those who believe in Christ. Apart from any evidence of any kind of probationary time period before this gift is received, we know that it is received WHEN one believes. Then, Jesus plainly stated that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Slam dunk.
These are the major discrepancies.
- Jul 13, 2012
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Since I don't claim to represent either Calvinism or Arminianism it makes no difference to me.
That is what I believe.
Coming to Jesus to hear the Gospel and obey the Gospel and endure to the end with Him is how we will receive the salvation of our soul As the end result of our faith.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9
- receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
If you don't believe those who come to Jesus must obey the Gospel and endure to the end in order to receive the salvation of their soul, then please explain why.
JLB
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I saw the other thread about this that someone here mentioned. I think you all are making very complicated what is a very simple truth.
Those who are redeemed in Christ are saved. Forever.
Those that are not redeemed, even if they're faking it or think they are, God knows the truth about. Because he knows who he's called to his grace and who are not truly receptive. Matthew 22.
John 15:16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.” 2Timothy 1:9 “God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began.”
We were cleansed of all sin when we came before our Savior. 1John 1:7 And he will never abandon us. Even if we abandon him we are still his because God chose us, we didn't choose him. We answered his calling in whatever situation we found ourselves in at the time that made us open to hearing his plea. "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." 2 Timothy 2:13
We will never hunger or thirst. John 6. And we shall never perish. John 10.
It really isn't that complicated until or unless we start believing the terms and conditions traditions want to strap onto the simple message of free grace and eternal life through Salvation in our Lord. Then it gets kind of wonky and people tend to get mad at each other because each one thinks they have something to defend about themselves, and what they hold dear.
When really the testament Jesus was born to give us is the dearest holding any Christian has.
Those who are redeemed in Christ are saved. Forever.
Those that are not redeemed, even if they're faking it or think they are, God knows the truth about. Because he knows who he's called to his grace and who are not truly receptive. Matthew 22.
John 15:16 “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.” 2Timothy 1:9 “God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began.”
We were cleansed of all sin when we came before our Savior. 1John 1:7 And he will never abandon us. Even if we abandon him we are still his because God chose us, we didn't choose him. We answered his calling in whatever situation we found ourselves in at the time that made us open to hearing his plea. "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." 2 Timothy 2:13
We will never hunger or thirst. John 6. And we shall never perish. John 10.
It really isn't that complicated until or unless we start believing the terms and conditions traditions want to strap onto the simple message of free grace and eternal life through Salvation in our Lord. Then it gets kind of wonky and people tend to get mad at each other because each one thinks they have something to defend about themselves, and what they hold dear.
When really the testament Jesus was born to give us is the dearest holding any Christian has.
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Those verses are great too.
Cygnus
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- Mar 12, 2016
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I believe it went like this....I posted
Then Jesus said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
Then there was this post about eating the fleah and drinking the blood of Christ.
We understand eating the flesh and drinking the blood is figurative....I had to think the poster thought God enabling a person was also figurative....which was a bad comparison.
Cygnus
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I would say coming to Christ is salvation which includes eternal life.
Cygnus
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That's how it's meant to be, yes.