That is a FALSE belief. Nothing more can be said.
Where does the Scripture state someone is a Christian BEFORE being baptized??? Was Saul Christian before becoming baptized?
Baptism diverges from circumcision because it is not to be entered into by the unknowing---only those who have already repented. Babies are incapable. Enough said.
LOL... You commonly dismiss arguments that you have little to say about and are befuddled.
I'm afraid that St. Paul himself compares circumcision to baptism in Colossians. The difference has
nothing to do with "the unknowing". Circumcision points to Baptism, a shadow of the good things to come. Now, if circumcision is the shadow, HOW COME it is of
lesser ability and God's "hands" are tied while He awaits the said infant to grow up and depend upon a "faith experience"??? Wouldn't one expect the reality to be MORE OPEN to God's action??? Your explanation LIMITS God's Work!!! You prevent someone from being born FROM ABOVE simply because the "baby" wasn't "ready" yet...???
Now, how does that work in the natural world, where the baby says 'I'm not ready yet, I think I'll wait around another few months before I am born... ?
In circumcision, the sign of the covenant between the child and God was made. God didn't have to await the infant's "age of reason". But in baptism, apparently, you have God waiting for a "faith experience" (which also forgets the notion that one is born from above...)
'Ritual' is the very telling word here. We neither need to baptize babies or assign Godparents.
What is wrong with "ritual"? Is there some verse I missed from Scriptures that tell me that rituals and religious ceremonies, liturgy, is inherently bad? Beware, or I'll call the sola scriptura police on you... ;)
What IS very telling that you ignore my point to tell me of your insecurities regarding rituals - that parents and godparents are tasked with educating the child, just as sponsors are tasked with educating the adult newly baptized. There is no difference. I HOPE that people who join your community of faith are instructed, and that you don't just hand them a bible and say "fare thee well, good luck, you are an adult, figure it out yourself"...
Yes, adults fall away from Christ, but the promise in that verse is for us as Christian parents to trust God's promise regarding our children. Get it?
Again, the same can be said for adults... More non-sequitars. Get it?
I believe that happens in the RCC a lot. so many are merely religious and not in a relationship with the living God, but wetting their babies at the front of some church is just some religious exercise.
Is it possible for you to refrain from such comments? That sort of generalizations are uncalled for. Just because I admit that there are Catholics in name only doesn't mean there are also not Protestants in name only. No one likes a hypocrite. EVERY organization has lukewarm followers of Christ. But inherently, the act does not lead to merely "wetting the infant". They are instructed on the invisible behind the visible symbols.
That is not something that Jesus has taught about. It is a man made tradition again.
How do you know what Jesus taught and what He didn't teach? The Apostles clearly confirm people baptized in several places in the Acts of the Apostles. Confirmation provides the answer to your concern about infants not being able to speak for themselves, so this shouldn't be a problem...
Again---we cannot confer belief or salvation on an unassuming child.
We aren't confering either onto the child. More non-sequitars.
God brings about the birth from above, whether you like it or not. You don't generate the faith, nor does the Church. Whether the infant speaks for himself or depends upon the community to speak for the child. Scriptural precedent is present for such proxy actions, and the Bible does not rule out infant baptism, neither in action or in doctrinal considerations - since baptism is a birth FROM ABOVE.
Are you saying Jesus made a mistake by healing the servant of the Centurion, that HOW DARE Jesus not await for the servant's own faith declaration??? You ignore it because you recognize it destroys part of your argument against infant baptism and depending upon the faith of another for the sake of the healed person.
That is spiritual abuse, IMO. They grow up thinking they are already saved when they are not, and never rightly hear or respond to the Gospel, as the Gospel has been perverted in them from the beginning.
Baptism frees us from sin, but it doesn't follow that we can never sin again. You have been asked that before. Do you think because you are 'saved' that you cannot sin again?
ANY freedom can be abused. It is poor logic to deny something merely because something
can be abused. Sex is abused. Does that mean you are going to stop having sex with your spouse? Children are abused, emotionally and physically. Does this mean we should stop having a relationship with our children for fear of abusing that relationship again?
Your argument here is very weak. An infant brought into the community is a natural continuation of the People of God, Israel. It takes a village to raise a child. Let's think biblical times, not now, where everyone thinks that they are a self-sufficient and independent person "free" to do whatever they like, like a good spoiled teenager... Children of the religious community are trained and taught about Christ. Does it always "stick"? Of course not - but often times, that is because the village didn't do their job. Our job, as custodians of our children, is to train them in our beliefs of God and allow THEM to share in the life that Christ promises to those who love Him and obey HIm. Why keep the children from Christ, then?
What? You don't believe it is a command for all believers, now?
Acts 2:38 ESV
And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
EVERY ONE OF YOU. Believers and unbelievers. All within earshot. Peter did NOT say "hey, elect, get over here and get baptized... All you pagans, get OUT of here...you are going to hell, anyways..."
Jesus gave them a command - to spread the Gospel throughout the WORLD, not just go find the "believers" in the diaspora and baptize them...
There is only one appropriate meaning for salvation:
It is the deliverance from sin and its consequences by our repentance of our own sins and a turning over our lives to Jesus Christ. He moves in and makes His home in us personally, and we are then empowered to walk in His ways, and to have fellowship with Him, and He will never leave us or forsake us. Our eternal destiny is His Kingdom.
Wrong, there are multiple meanings of the term. That is probably why you are confused and having a difficult time accepting what I am writing (at least to a degree). The first part of your paragraph is one use of the term. The second half of the paragraph is ANOTHER, SEPARATE use of the term. You have convoluted the different definitions into one definition.
Salvation can refer to something in the past. The forgiveness of sins. The BEGINNING of a new life in Christ. It does
NOT follow that THAT salvation WILL lead to eternal life. You yourself have admitted this when you said adults can fall away.
Salvation ALSO can refer to something happening NOW. "We are being saved". Being made holy and being freed from sin, living life to the fullest in the freedom of God is BEING saved NOW. Christians sin NOW and today need the mercy that God continues to offer.
Salvation can ALSO refer to something of the future. Eternal life in heaven. That is something we can only HOPE to achieve, which is why St. Paul says we CONTINUE to run that race so as not to be disqualified. It hasn't happened yet, nor is it "automatic". In addition, eternal life in heaven requires other things than just baptism.
You have combined the first and third definition, and this is a mistake, because it PRESUMES that all people who become baptized will go to heaven.
That explains why you have a hard time with infant baptism, since you think the forgiveness of sins irrevocably leads to eternal life in heaven - when the Bible gives OTHER requirements to achieve that. Obey His Commandments. Eat/Drink His Body/Blood. Do the Will of the Father. Etc....
Regards
totopic