Greek grammar questions (2) concerning 1 Thess 5:23:
Within 1 Thess 5:23 there are
two adjectives within the text and both are double-word adjectives as follows:
3651 holotelḗs (an adjective, derived from 3650 /hólos,
"whole" and 5056 /télos,
"end-purpose") – properly, wholly (holistically), "fully-layered" (all levels present) – describing someone reaching the end-goal of "entire sanctification." 3651
is only used in 1 Thes 5:23.
3648 holóklēros (from 3650 /hólos, "whole"
and 2819 /klḗros, "a lot, cast to better discern God's preferred-will") – properly, "all that is included (apportioned) through
divine lot." 3648 /holóklēros occurs
twice in the NT:
1 Thes 5:23: "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely (3651 /holotelḗs); and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved
complete (3648 /holóklēros), without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (NASU). [But I notice that this is not really where the adjective 3648 appears in the actual Greek text]
Just as the Scripture says "ye all are elohim" . and in many other places, like from the start "Let Us make man in our image" ,
and
Yeshua became a life-giving spirit, and so on. and "everyone born of God is like the wind, you hear the wind but don't know where it comes from or where it goes. so is everyone who is born of the spirit" or something like that. stop fighting - man is spirit. the body is just a tent; a temporary dwelling place. passing away.
is there some connotation of spirit that has caused such a long rejection of this ? that once admitted, that man is spirit, then therefore something else someone said is much worse occurs or results ? (i.e. why such resistance to spirit ? )
Js 1:4: "And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete (3648 /holóklēros), lacking in nothing" (NASU).
It seems to me, that Paul used two different adjectives and both were ‘double-words’ for a reason. He could have used just the one adjective or the other one or even the four individual words from which these “double-words” are formed. But why use both double-word adjectives? And why does the translations not just translated them more directly and word-for-word? IDK. So I have two questions about 1 Thess 5:23: 1) What nouns exactly does these adjectives modify? 2) Why do the translations not mention the “telos” and the “divine lot” portion of these double-word adjectives’ meanings?
Same comment for the other adjective Paul uses: 3648 = from 3650 /hólos, "whole"
and 2819 /klḗros “a lot” or “a portion”. Why not just directly translate it as “whole-portion” or “whole-lot”, or “whole-divine lot”? But no translation does this. So have we just lost what Paul means by a word that has a root from kleros? It seems to me we have. But maybe, I’m wrong.
To me, 3651 is fairly easy to translate and it should be an easily translated word (even though it only occurs once in the entire NT). I say it’s well defined since both root words, from which it is derived are well defined and translate over to English fairly directly. In logical terms 3651=3650 + 5056 = whole-end purpose. Both of the root words are quite common words and narrow in their usage scope. It seems to me, however, that the translators may have been a little lazy in this passage’s translation and missed something quite important. Here’s why I say that. 3651 is typically simply translated as either “complete” or “whole” or “entirely”. Fair enough. That’s partially true. But we already have a Greek word for “complete” or “whole” or “entirely”. That adjective is 3650 and it has 110 uses in the NT with a single definition, really, for each of its usages. But Paul used the double root word 3651 (not 3650) for his adjective for a reason, IMO. Where does the “telos” (i.e. the “end purpose”) portion of Paul’s adjective show up in any of the modern English translations? I don’t see it. Why is that?
“Whole end purpose”, would be the literal way to translate what Paul actually said, not simply “whole”. I don’t see what’s wrong with actually using the double-word. Why leave out the “end purpose” portion of Paul’s adjective? So in a minute, I’ll insert this double word into the text.
Also, it’s not clear to me what nouns these adjectives are technically/precisely modifying. Evidently, I’m not the only one confused as the various translations are quite varied with respect to how they translate the grammar of Paul’s statement into the English and where these adjectives appear. The verse is translated with two adjectives “whole” or “complete” or “entirely” in most all (but not all) translations. But they place these adjectives at various points which then mean they modify different nouns per the English. Some imply Paul meant the “body” is completed, some imply the “spirit” is completed. I find that extremely odd and confusing. Especially since it may be that he didn’t mean either of these are completed, but rather he meant “you” are completed by God only via the telos and/or kleros portion of his double-word adjectives.
Plus in the actual Greek text; double words 3651 and 3648 appear side-by-side with a conjunctive in-between these adjectives (which seems odd). Does this fact not mean that both adjectives are modifying not different nouns but rather the same noun? Yet they are translated as if they are modifying various nouns in the sentence. For example:
The LEB/NASB says the “body” is complete and “you” are complete. Two nouns, two adjectives.
The KJV/YLT says only “you” are complete (wholly) disregarding the 2nd adjective altogether.
The AMP says “you” are complete (through and through, wholly and adds “separate you from profane things, make you pure and wholly consecrated to God” ) and the “body” is complete.
The ESV and NKJV says “you” are complete and your “spirit” is whole.
I find this very confusing, other than they all confirm that “you” are complete. Can someone help with the Greek here? Why did Paul use two adjectives and what do they modify exactly?
I’m way outside of any expertise. I’m asking here if any Greek expert might critic some of my points and/or the various translations of 1 Thess 5:23. Maybe these double-word adjectives were intended by Paul to clarify what the nouns mean within his statement. Or maybe, that’s his point. That all these nouns are needed to be completed-divinely speaking.
I mean, that’s what adjectives are for, right? We (in English) sometimes modify a noun with two or more adjectives so I assume that’s possible in the Greek as well (especially when they appear together).
If one were to literally insert both the actual double-word adjectives as they appear in the Greek text (using the YLT for the rest of the verse) here’s what you get:
23 and the God of the peace Himself sanctify you ___3651 and 3648____ your spirit, and soul, and body, be preserved unblameably in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ;
23 and the God of the peace Himself sanctify you ___ hólos-télos and hólos-klḗros your spirit, and soul, and body, be preserved unblameably in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ;
In other words, it seems to me Paul is actually saying that for “you” to be whole/completed (i.e. sanctified) by God, means you are wholly in your
end-purpose and wholly in your
divine-lot. But both aspects are simply missing from all English translations (except for the AMP, maybe).
Not a single modern translation captures this aspect of Paul’s adjectives, in my opinion. Odd, really.
I really don’t have a dog in this race. I don’t particularly care if humans can be divided into a trichotomy or dichotomy of parts (though I lean to dichotomy exegesis). That’s not really my point.
And I may be totally out-to-lunch here but I do find it rather disturbing that neither the telos nor the kleros root meanings seem to be accurately transferred over from the Greek.
I don’t even know Greek other than a few Greek yogurt names and most of the letters (back from Calculus and chasing after sorority girls). But I do know what telos means. But it’s missing from 1 Thess 5:23, is it not?
