Body, Soul, and Spirit

[Edward]

I didn't see if this got answered or not- but like I said it is simple spiritually and Scripturally.

Yhwh is spirit. Jesus is spirit. Yhwh created a body for Jesus to dwell in (looks like for eternity now). a body has flesh and bone in heaven. simple.

"We" are spirits that have a soul and live in a body for now. When we see our friend drive by in a car, we say there goes joe...but that's not the car, that's joe inside the car.

There's milk and meat in scripture. When you speak to a child, don't you dumb it down just a bit for them so they can understand on their level? That's what Jesus was doing when He spoke those words to men.

 

[Edward]

I used to believe in Hypostatic Union (fully God/fully man) but now I see that the Scriptures don't teach that. The Philippians 2 passage is key, It actually says being in the form of God He emptied himself and was made in the likeness of man.

5 For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God,
7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,
8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, (Phi 2:5-8 YLT)

The word translated likeness means to be made like something else and the word fashion is "skema". I believe this is where we get the word Schematic. John said the Word became flesh. When you say birthright are you referring to man's purpose to rule the creation? If so, I would say yes that is one reason He came, that man could rule over the creation.

So basically, Jesus left His own habitation, to take on the habitation of man for His purpose and plan? ;)

 

[Butch5]

So basically, Jesus left His own habitation, to take on the habitation of man for His purpose and plan? ;)

I agree if We're understanding "habitation" the same way.

 

[Edward]

I agree if We're understanding "habitation" the same way.

Well this is how I understand it. Here's where the scripture comes from:

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day./

Habitation G3613
οἰκητήριον
oikētērion
oy-kay-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G3611 (equivalent to G3612); a residence (literally or figuratively): - habitation, house./

It's our house (body) We live inside of it. It is a temporary dwelling place for us. "WE" are inside of it, we are not the house. We're...under house arrest in this realm, lol. We aspire to be clothed upon...

2 Corinthians 5:1-2
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:/

In verse 2 of chapter 5 above, it takes us to the very same word in Strongs..."Oiketerion", As far as I know, these are the only two places in scripture where this word is used. We desire to shed our earthly body, and be clothed upon with our heavenly body (spiritual body).

Jesus left His spiritual body to become man in an earthly oiketerion so that He could die for mans sins. I *think* that when Jesus was transfigured...He put on his heavenly (spiritual) body for a moment to show the disciples, and possibly just because...Ah, it feels good to wear a suit, doesn't it? Don't you miss it?! (that part is speculation of course!)

I thought of that because I have read and watched a lot of testimonies & vids of people who had NDE and then came back into their body...and most of them say it was like putting on a sack of weights which did not feel good compared to where they had just been. So, do we agree? Habitation is house? Body?

Bless you brother.

 

[Butch5]

Well this is how I understand it. Here's where the scripture comes from:

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day./

Habitation G3613
οἰκητήριον
oikētērion
oy-kay-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G3611 (equivalent to G3612); a residence (literally or figuratively): - habitation, house./

It's our house (body) We live inside of it. It is a temporary dwelling place for us. "WE" are inside of it, we are not the house. We're...under house arrest in this realm, lol. We aspire to be clothed upon...

2 Corinthians 5:1-2
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:/

In verse 2 of chapter 5 above, it takes us to the very same word in Strongs..."Oiketerion", As far as I know, these are the only two places in scripture where this word is used. We desire to shed our earthly body, and be clothed upon with our heavenly body (spiritual body).

Jesus left His spiritual body to become man in an earthly oiketerion so that He could die for mans sins. I *think* that when Jesus was transfigured...He put on his heavenly (spiritual) body for a moment to show the disciples, and possibly just because...Ah, it feels good to wear a suit, doesn't it? Don't you miss it?! (that part is speculation of course!)

I thought of that because I have read and watched a lot of testimonies & vids of people who had NDE and then came back into their body...and most of them say it was like putting on a sack of weights which did not feel good compared to where they had just been. So, do we agree? Habitation is house? Body?

Bless you brother.

No, we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I see nothing in Scripture that suggests the changing of bodies. Spiritual is an adjective, an adjective describes a noun. It gives qualities of the body, however, we know that Jesus resurrected with a flesh and bone body, He said so. His body was physical and the same one He had before the resurrection as He showed Thomas the nail marks. It appears that are qualities of the spirit that are different in the resurrected body, however, I don't believe that makes in anything other than a physical body.

It's interesting that you used the term house arrest when speaking of the body because the Greeks used the same term, they said the body was the prison of the soul. The Gnostics blended Greek Philosophy with Christian teaching and said that matter was inherently corrupt and that salvation was to s escape the physical body and ascend into the Heavens. I'm getting the impression that you're thinking something close to the this, is that correct?

Also, in Paul 's statement from 2 Cor. he's not talking about putting off the body, the word translated "clothed upon" means to put on over, like you would pout a coat on over your clothes. He's saying he wants to put on his incorruptible body over his corruptible one. However, It's not literally another body, he's speaking figuratively of mortality being swallowed up in immortality.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

spirit is spirit. this is how Jews and believers have lived for over 2000 years. I think until you accept that, none of anything will make sense.

 

[Edward]

No, we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I see nothing in Scripture that suggests the changing of bodies. Spiritual is an adjective, an adjective describes a noun. It gives qualities of the body, however, we know that Jesus resurrected with a flesh and bone body, He said so. His body was physical and the same one He had before the resurrection as He showed Thomas the nail marks. It appears that are qualities of the spirit that are different in the resurrected body, however, I don't believe that makes in anything other than a physical body.

It's interesting that you used the term house arrest when speaking of the body because the Greeks used the same term, they said the body was the prison of the soul. The Gnostics blended Greek Philosophy with Christian teaching and said that matter was inherently corrupt and that salvation was to s escape the physical body and ascend into the Heavens. I'm getting the impression that you're thinking something close to the this, is that correct?

Also, in Paul 's statement from 2 Cor. he's not talking about putting off the body, the word translated "clothed upon" means to put on over, like you would pout a coat on over your clothes. He's saying he wants to put on his incorruptible body over his corruptible one. However, It's not literally another body, he's speaking figuratively of mortality being swallowed up in immortality.

You confuse me a little in your first paragraph brother. You say that there are qualities of the spirit that are different in the resurrected body...but earlier you said that man has no spirit, that the spirit is just the breath of god which gives life to the soul and body. So which is it? Or is gods breath different?

The Greeks are said to be very wise, and they did make a good clock, but I hold them in no special esteem, nor have I studied Greek Philosophy. While in a sense, salvation can be thought to be to escape the physical body and ascend to heaven...the most important goal of it all is not the escape of the body, but to regain our lost identity and close relationship with God. My statement about house arrest, and it's apparent similarity to any type of greek or Gnostic philosophy was unintentional and coincidental. In my thinking, it would be different than how you say they think. I am more along the lines of our soul and spirit are in the prison of the body, i.e., house arrest. We are said to be body/soul/spirit...but I think that before the fall...it may have been spirit/soul/body, with the spirit on the outside and dominant (where it's light could shine). Now that we have fallen, the body is outside and dominant body/soul/spirit. With the spirit being on the inside. Scripture tells us to live for the spirit, and to let our light shine before the world...I think this means to cultivate the spirit man and bring him out to be dominant again. If that makes sense, lol.

In 1 Corinthians 15, we see this:

1 Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed./

Changed brother, not just covered up. We move into a new house (body) a spiritual one and an incorruptible one.

Changed G236
ἀλλάσσω
allassō
al-las'-so
From G243; to make different: - change./

not covered upon over our corruptibility, changed to a different being. Apparently, a spirit needs a body of some sort, whether flesh or spiritual, lest they be naked. Even the evil spirits throughout the gospels seek embodiment in a person or animal (as in the swine). So our spirit will get a new dwelling place when the Lord comes and we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. That's how I see it.

 

[agua.]

Well this is how I understand it. Here's where the scripture comes from:

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day./

Habitation G3613
οἰκητήριον
oikētērion
oy-kay-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G3611 (equivalent to G3612); a residence (literally or figuratively): - habitation, house./

It's our house (body) We live inside of it. It is a temporary dwelling place for us. "WE" are inside of it, we are not the house. We're...under house arrest in this realm, lol. We aspire to be clothed upon...

2 Corinthians 5:1-2
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:/

In verse 2 of chapter 5 above, it takes us to the very same word in Strongs..."Oiketerion", As far as I know, these are the only two places in scripture where this word is used. We desire to shed our earthly body, and be clothed upon with our heavenly body (spiritual body).

Jesus left His spiritual body to become man in an earthly oiketerion so that He could die for mans sins. I *think* that when Jesus was transfigured...He put on his heavenly (spiritual) body for a moment to show the disciples, and possibly just because...Ah, it feels good to wear a suit, doesn't it? Don't you miss it?! (that part is speculation of course!)

I thought of that because I have read and watched a lot of testimonies & vids of people who had NDE and then came back into their body...and most of them say it was like putting on a sack of weights which did not feel good compared to where they had just been. So, do we agree? Habitation is house? Body?

Bless you brother.

Jesus left His spiritual body to become man in an earthly oiketerion so that He could die for mans sins. I *think* that when Jesus was transfigured...He put on his heavenly (spiritual) body for a moment to show the disciples, and possibly just because...Ah, it feels good to wear a suit, doesn't it? Don't you miss it?! (that part is speculation of course!)

One thing that may, or may not, be important here. This spiritual body/habitation ( oiketerion ) isn't used to describe our Earthly body/habitation. The Earthly body is called oikia. Maybe a Greek speaker can suggest why.

2Co 5:1-2 KJV
(1) For we know that if our earthly house ( oikia ) of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house ( oiketerion ) which is from heaven:

 

[agua.]

oikia ( οἰκία ) is feminine and oikētērion ( οἰκητήριον ) is neuter if that implies anything.

 

[Butch5]

You confuse me a little in your first paragraph brother. You say that there are qualities of the spirit that are different in the resurrected body...but earlier you said that man has no spirit, that the spirit is just the breath of god which gives life to the soul and body. So which is it? Or is gods breath different?

Hi Edward,


I'm not saying man doesn't have spirit, the Breath of Life is spirit, it's God's spirit. What I'm saying is that man is not a spirit. Man is a soul composed of the body and the Breath/spirit of God. So, man has a God's spirit in him but that spirit is not who he is.

The Greeks are said to be very wise, and they did make a good clock, but I hold them in no special esteem, nor have I studied Greek Philosophy. While in a sense, salvation can be thought to be to escape the physical body and ascend to heaven...the most important goal of it all is not the escape of the body, but to regain our lost identity and close relationship with God.

My point in bringing up Greek philosophy was to show that it is the source of idea that man can live outside of the body, not the Scriptures. The Scriptures don't teach that man is a spirit or soul that can live apart from the body, that idea entered Christian thought through Greek philosophy. Paul wanted no intentions of escaping the body and ascending into the heavens. Notice his words.


12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 Andif Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Thenthey also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (1Co 15:12-18 KJV)


Paul gives the only hope as the resurrection from the dead. He says that if Christ has not risen those in Christ have perished. If Christ hasn't risen then those believe are gone. He doesn't say they're in heaven with God or with Jesus, he said they've perished. So, according to Paul there is no life outside of the body.

My statement about house arrest, and it's apparent similarity to any type of greek or Gnostic philosophy was unintentional and coincidental. In my thinking, it would be different than how you say they think. I am more along the lines of our soul and spirit are in the prison of the body, i.e., house arrest. We are said to be body/soul/spirit...but I think that before the fall...it may have been spirit/soul/body, with the spirit on the outside and dominant (where it's light could shine). Now that we have fallen, the body is outside and dominant body/soul/spirit. With the spirit being on the inside. Scripture tells us to live for the spirit, and to let our light shine before the world...I think this means to cultivate the spirit man and bring him out to be dominant again. If that makes sense, lol.

It seems you're assuming that man is a spirit. It is my contention, that I stated in the OP, that man is not a spirit but as Gen 2:7 says, a body and the Breath of God, nothing more.

In 1 Corinthians 15, we see this:


1 Corinthians 15

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed./


Changed brother, not just covered up. We move into a new house (body) a spiritual one and an incorruptible one.


Changed G236

ἀλλάσσω

allassō

al-las'-so

From G243; to make different: - change./


not covered upon over our corruptibility, changed to a different being. Apparently, a spirit needs a body of some sort, whether flesh or spiritual, lest they be naked. Even the evil spirits throughout the gospels seek embodiment in a person or animal (as in the swine). So our spirit will get a new dwelling place when the Lord comes and we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. That's how I see it.

The idea that one moves into a new body stands in contrast to the Resurrection. The word Resurrection means to stand again. If one is moving to a new body the old is not standing again, however, we see that Jesus, being resurrected was in the same body that He died in, a flesh and bone body. From this I think were forced to accept that whatever Paul meant by a spiritual body it wasn't a different body or an immaterial body. I would suggest that it had qualities of the Spirit. We know from Scripture that spiritual doesn't mean immaterial as Paul called believers spiritual.


Since Paul wrote both 1 Cor. 15 and 2 Cor 5 I don't see how we ca accept this statement, "Changed brother, not just covered up." I think if we accept this statement we are forced to reject Paul's statement in 2 Cor 5. Rather I think we need to draw a conclusion that harmonizes both passages

 

[Butch5]

I would suggest that in 2 Cor 5 Paul is not contrasting two different bodies but rather two different states of the same body, one corruptible (eathly) and one incorruptible (spiritual). It's the same body before and after the Resurrection.

 

[JLB]

Well this is how I understand it. Here's where the scripture comes from:

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day./

Habitation G3613
οἰκητήριον
oikētērion
oy-kay-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G3611 (equivalent to G3612); a residence (literally or figuratively): - habitation, house./

It's our house (body) We live inside of it. It is a temporary dwelling place for us. "WE" are inside of it, we are not the house. We're...under house arrest in this realm, lol. We aspire to be clothed upon...

2 Corinthians 5:1-2
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:/

In verse 2 of chapter 5 above, it takes us to the very same word in Strongs..."Oiketerion", As far as I know, these are the only two places in scripture where this word is used. We desire to shed our earthly body, and be clothed upon with our heavenly body (spiritual body).

Jesus left His spiritual body to become man in an earthly oiketerion so that He could die for mans sins. I *think* that when Jesus was transfigured...He put on his heavenly (spiritual) body for a moment to show the disciples, and possibly just because...Ah, it feels good to wear a suit, doesn't it? Don't you miss it?! (that part is speculation of course!)

I thought of that because I have read and watched a lot of testimonies & vids of people who had NDE and then came back into their body...and most of them say it was like putting on a sack of weights which did not feel good compared to where they had just been. So, do we agree? Habitation is house? Body?

Bless you brother.

We dwell in our body (house) we are a spirit.

Nobody refers to a deceased person by name.

It is called a body or a corpse!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Hi Edward,


I'm not saying man doesn't have spirit, the Breath of Life is spirit, it's God's spirit. What I'm saying is that man is not a spirit. Man is a soul composed of the body and the Breath/spirit of God. So, man has a God's spirit in him but that spirit is not who he is.





My point in bringing up Greek philosophy was to show that it is the source of idea that man can live outside of the body, not the Scriptures. The Scriptures don't teach that man is a spirit or soul that can live apart from the body, that idea entered Christian thought through Greek philosophy. Paul wanted no intentions of escaping the body and ascending into the heavens. Notice his words.


12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 Andif Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Thenthey also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (1Co 15:12-18 KJV)


Paul gives the only hope as the resurrection from the dead. He says that if Christ has not risen those in Christ have perished. If Christ hasn't risen then those believe are gone. He doesn't say they're in heaven with God or with Jesus, he said they've perished. So, according to Paul there is no life outside of the body.






It seems you're assuming that man is a spirit. It is my contention, that I stated in the OP, that man is not a spirit but as Gen 2:7 says, a body and the Breath of God, nothing more.





The idea that one moves into a new body stands in contrast to the Resurrection. The word Resurrection means to stand again. If one is moving to a new body the old is not standing again, however, we see that Jesus, being resurrected was in the same body that He died in, a flesh and bone body. From this I think were forced to accept that whatever Paul meant by a spiritual body it wasn't a different body or an immaterial body. I would suggest that it had qualities of the Spirit. We know from Scripture that spiritual doesn't mean immaterial as Paul called believers spiritual.


Since Paul wrote both 1 Cor. 15 and 2 Cor 5 I don't see how we ca accept this statement, "Changed brother, not just covered up." I think if we accept this statement we are forced to reject Paul's statement in 2 Cor 5. Rather I think we need to draw a conclusion that harmonizes both passages

Man is created in the image and likeness of God.

Man is a spirit who has soul and dwells temporarily in a natural body.

JLB

 

[Deborah13]

You confuse me a little in your first paragraph brother. You say that there are qualities of the spirit that are different in the resurrected body...but earlier you said that man has no spirit, that the spirit is just the breath of god which gives life to the soul and body. So which is it? Or is gods breath different?

The Greeks are said to be very wise, and they did make a good clock, but I hold them in no special esteem, nor have I studied Greek Philosophy. While in a sense, salvation can be thought to be to escape the physical body and ascend to heaven...the most important goal of it all is not the escape of the body, but to regain our lost identity and close relationship with God. My statement about house arrest, and it's apparent similarity to any type of greek or Gnostic philosophy was unintentional and coincidental. In my thinking, it would be different than how you say they think. I am more along the lines of our soul and spirit are in the prison of the body, i.e., house arrest. We are said to be body/soul/spirit...but I think that before the fall...it may have been spirit/soul/body, with the spirit on the outside and dominant (where it's light could shine). Now that we have fallen, the body is outside and dominant body/soul/spirit. With the spirit being on the inside. Scripture tells us to live for the spirit, and to let our light shine before the world...I think this means to cultivate the spirit man and bring him out to be dominant again. If that makes sense, lol.

In 1 Corinthians 15, we see this:

1 Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed./

Changed brother, not just covered up. We move into a new house (body) a spiritual one and an incorruptible one.

Changed G236
ἀλλάσσω
allassō
al-las'-so
From G243; to make different: - change./

not covered upon over our corruptibility, changed to a different being. Apparently, a spirit needs a body of some sort, whether flesh or spiritual, lest they be naked. Even the evil spirits throughout the gospels seek embodiment in a person or animal (as in the swine). So our spirit will get a new dwelling place when the Lord comes and we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. That's how I see it.

It's interesting to note that Paul compares our bodies to the Tabernacle.
The Tabernacle was torn down into pieces when it was moved from place to place. The ark moved from place to place independently from the Tabernacle and then was put back into the reconstructed
Tabernacle.
The ark could not be touched by defiled human hands as it was being moved from place to place. As we see that the ark pole barer was struck dead when he touched it.

 

[Butch5]

It's interesting to note that Paul compares our bodies to the Tabernacle.
The Tabernacle was torn down into pieces when it was moved from place to place. The ark moved from place to place independently from the Tabernacle and then was put back into the reconstructed
Tabernacle.
The ark could not be touched by defiled human hands as it was being moved from place to place. As we see that the ark pole barer was struck dead when he touched it.

That's really interesting Deb, I hadn't thought of that.

 

[agua.]

We dwell in our body (house) we are a spirit.

Nobody refers to a deceased person by name.

It is called a body or a corpse!


JLB

I'm guessing you've never read a Tombstone :D

 

[JLB]

I'm guessing you've never read a Tombstone :biggrin

The person is not there, their corpse is

 

[agua.]

Hi Edward,


I'm not saying man doesn't have spirit, the Breath of Life is spirit, it's God's spirit. What I'm saying is that man is not a spirit. Man is a soul composed of the body and the Breath/spirit of God. So, man has a God's spirit in him but that spirit is not who he is.


My point in bringing up Greek philosophy was to show that it is the source of idea that man can live outside of the body, not the Scriptures. The Scriptures don't teach that man is a spirit or soul that can live apart from the body, that idea entered Christian thought through Greek philosophy. Paul wanted no intentions of escaping the body and ascending into the heavens. Notice his words.


12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 Andif Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

18 Thenthey also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. (1Co 15:12-18 KJV)


Paul gives the only hope as the resurrection from the dead. He says that if Christ has not risen those in Christ have perished. If Christ hasn't risen then those believe are gone. He doesn't say they're in heaven with God or with Jesus, he said they've perished. So, according to Paul there is no life outside of the body.



It seems you're assuming that man is a spirit. It is my contention, that I stated in the OP, that man is not a spirit but as Gen 2:7 says, a body and the Breath of God, nothing more.


The idea that one moves into a new body stands in contrast to the Resurrection. The word Resurrection means to stand again. If one is moving to a new body the old is not standing again, however, we see that Jesus, being resurrected was in the same body that He died in, a flesh and bone body. From this I think were forced to accept that whatever Paul meant by a spiritual body it wasn't a different body or an immaterial body. I would suggest that it had qualities of the Spirit. We know from Scripture that spiritual doesn't mean immaterial as Paul called believers spiritual.


Since Paul wrote both 1 Cor. 15 and 2 Cor 5 I don't see how we ca accept this statement, "Changed brother, not just covered up." I think if we accept this statement we are forced to reject Paul's statement in 2 Cor 5. Rather I think we need to draw a conclusion that harmonizes both passages

From this I think were forced to accept that whatever Paul meant by a spiritual body it wasn't a different body or an immaterial body. I would suggest that it had qualities of the Spirit. We know from Scripture that spiritual doesn't mean immaterial as Paul called believers spiritual.

This continues to interest me Butch. If Paul distinguished between the types of bodies that exist, and told us that they would be different before and after resurrection, what is the difference ?

1Co 15:42-44 KJV So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: (43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: (44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[agua.]

The person is not there, their corpse is

Yeah. "Here lies a corpse" is what the inscriptions say :D

 

[chessman]

We dwell in our body (house) we are a spirit.

Nobody refers to a deceased person by name.

JLB

Luke 16:23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes as he was in torment and saw Abraham from a distance, and Lazarus at his side.

Inconsistency is a sign of incorrectness.