Body, Soul, and Spirit

[JLB]

Luke 16:23 And in Hades he lifted up his eyes as he was in torment and saw Abraham from a distance, and Lazarus at his side.

Inconsistency is a sign of incorrectness.

Abraham was clearly alive in the heart of the earth.

Abraham's body was buried in a tomb.

10 the field which Abraham purchased from the sons of Heth. There Abraham was buried, and Sarah his wife. Genesis 25:10.

You err not knowing the word!


JLB

 

[JLB]

Yeah. "Here lies a corpse" is what the inscriptions say :biggrin

Putting the persons name on a tomb stone where their body is buried is a tradition.

As you can see from The Word of God, they are not there.

 

[agua.]

Putting the persons name on a tomb stone where their body is buried is a tradition.

As you can see from The Word of God, they are not there.

The body is in the grave and the spirit has returned to God.


Joh 11:11-14 KJV These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. (12) Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. (13) Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. (14) Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

We see here again death likened to sleep.

Joh 11:23-26 KJV Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. (24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. (25) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (26) And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Martha understood that her brother would live again at the resurrection and Jesus showed her that He was the one who held the key of the grave. The resurrection of the Saints means they will never die forever. Pretty cool that Jesus holds the power over death and the grave.

 

[Butch5]

Abraham was clearly alive in the heart of the earth.

Abraham's body was buried in a tomb.

10 the field which Abraham purchased from the sons of Heth. There Abraham was buried, and Sarah his wife. Genesis 25:10.

You err not knowing the word!


JLB

The argument is circular, The premise is that man can live part from the body therefore these passage must mean that the men are alive. It's circular reasoning, it's fallacious

 

[JLB]

The argument is circular, The premise is that man can live part from the body therefore these passage must mean that the men are alive. It's circular reasoning, it's fallacious

No circular to it.

Abraham was alive in the heart of the earth, as Jesus said.

Abraham's body was buried in a tomb, as the scripture says.

You either choose to believe the bible or you don't.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The body is in the grave and the spirit has returned to God.

The spirit of the people who died before Jesus was resurrected did not go to heaven but to Paradise, though God was likely there.

After Jesus was resurrected he took the OT saints to heaven, where God was surely there.


JLB

 

[Butch5]

No circular to it.

Abraham was alive in the heart of the earth, as Jesus said.

Abraham's body was buried in a tomb, as the scripture says.

You either choose to believe the bible or you don't.


JLB

Your premise assumes your conclusion, thus it's circular

 

[agua.]

The spirit of the people who died before Jesus was resurrected did not go to heaven but to Paradise, though God was likely there.

After Jesus was resurrected he took the OT saints to heaven, where God was surely there.


JLB

Yes that's the usual Christian belief. It's all a bit messy with no coherency. Have you considered re - investigating this ?

 

[JLB]

Yes that's the usual Christian belief. It's all a bit messy with no coherency. Have you considered re - investigating this ?

It's not messy to me.

It's crystal clear.

You and the others have been shown the scriptures where we are spirit soul and body.

If you don't want to believe the scriptures then what more is there to investigate.

 

[agua.]

It's not messy to me.

It's crystal clear.

You and the others have been shown the scriptures where we are spirit soul and body.

If you don't want to believe the scriptures then what more is there to investigate.

Oky doky.

Funny but I think the same about you :D

One of us is wrong eh.

 

[Butch5]

It's not messy to me.

It's crystal clear.

You and the others have been shown the scriptures where we are spirit soul and body.

If you don't want to believe the scriptures then what more is there to investigate.

What Scriptures say we are a spirit. I've been asking for those from the beginning.

 

[Edward]

It's interesting to note that Paul compares our bodies to the Tabernacle.
The Tabernacle was torn down into pieces when it was moved from place to place. The ark moved from place to place independently from the Tabernacle and then was put back into the reconstructed
Tabernacle.
The ark could not be touched by defiled human hands as it was being moved from place to place. As we see that the ark pole barer was struck dead when he touched it.

Now that is interesting deb. I hadn't made that association yet either, thank you. I did feel compelled to look up tabernacle from this scripture just to make sure i wasn't missing some nuance of it, and it surprised me exactly what it did say.

Tabernacle G4636
σκῆνος
skēnos
skay'-nos
From G4633; a hut or temporary residence, that is, (figuratively) the human body (as the abode of the spirit): - tabernacle./(Strongs)

 

[Edward]

This continues to interest me Butch. If Paul distinguished between the types of bodies that exist, and told us that they would be different before and after resurrection, what is the difference ?

1Co 15:42-44 KJV So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: (43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: (44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Though I know these things, it's nice when a brother posts scriptures which are very relevant and had not been posted yet.

I read this scripture, and immediately thought of your earlier point:

One thing that may, or may not, be important here. This spiritual body/habitation ( oiketerion ) isn't used to describe our Earthly body/habitation. The Earthly body is called oikia. Maybe a Greek speaker can suggest why.

2Co 5:1-2 KJV
(1) For we know that if our earthly house ( oikia ) of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house ( oiketerion ) which is from heaven:

and that the earthly body (oikia) is a feminine derivative of the word (oiketerion)...I do believe that the scripture from 1 Corinthians 15 that you posted (in verse 43) give us a clue to the point of the use of the different terms. The feminine is the weaker earthly sex...the earthly body is sown in weakness...and is raised in power. Eh?!

:biggrin

 

[agua.]

and that the earthly body (oikia) is a feminine derivative of the word (oiketerion)...I do believe that the scripture from 1 Corinthians 15 that you posted (in verse 43) give us a clue to the point of the use of the different terms. The feminine is the weaker earthly sex...the earthly body is sown in weakness...and is raised in power. Eh?!

:biggrin

I'm not sure that the Greek nouns gender thing works that way but it's an interesting thought. I imagined someone might suggest we will be all gender neutral in the new Earth since oiketerion is gender neuter :D

 

[Edward]

I'm not sure that the Greek nouns gender thing works that way but it's an interesting thought. I imagined someone might suggest we will be all gender neutral in the new Earth since oiketerion is gender neuter :biggrin

Oh, that's not the point brother. the point being that as the weaker earthly kind is feminine, so the earthly body as compared to the raised spiritual body is the weaker of the two, hence the feminine usage of the term. We are sown in weakness and raised in power. Sown in a weak flesh body, raised in a powerful spiritual body.

 

[Butch5]

Oh, that's not the point brother. the point being that as the weaker earthly kind is feminine, so the earthly body as compared to the raised spiritual body is the weaker of the two, hence the feminine usage of the term. We are sown in weakness and raised in power. Sown in a weak flesh body, raised in a powerful spiritual body.

Hi Edward,

The gender of the words has no bearing on that. the feminine gender doesn't denote a weaker body,

 

[Deborah13]

Though I know these things, it's nice when a brother posts scriptures which are very relevant and had not been posted yet.

I read this scripture, and immediately thought of your earlier point:



and that the earthly body (oikia) is a feminine derivative of the word (oiketerion)...I do believe that the scripture from 1 Corinthians 15 that you posted (in verse 43) give us a clue to the point of the use of the different terms. The feminine is the weaker earthly sex...the earthly body is sown in weakness...and is raised in power. Eh?!

:biggrin

No. :neutral
('oikia' nominative, feminine) (oikodomen - accusative, feminine) They are forms of the same word.
oikian
oikian
G3614
n_ Acc Sg f

oikia
oikia
G3614
n_ Nom Sg f

 

[agua.]

Hi Edward,

The gender of the words has no bearing on that. the feminine gender doesn't denote a weaker body,

What does the gender delineation mean in Greek Butch ?

No. :neutral
('oikia' nominative, feminine) (oikodomen - accusative, feminine) They are forms of the same word.
oikian
oikian
G3614
n_ Acc Sg f

oikia
oikia
G3614
n_ Nom Sg f

Don't blame me :D

 

[JLB]

What Scriptures say we are a spirit. I've been asking for those from the beginning.

1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16

We are created in the image and likeness of God.

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

The scriptures teach us that man has a spirit, soul and body and is created in the image and likeness of God, Who Himself is Spirit.

Man is a spirit.

Sons of God are spirit beings.


Show me a scripture that says spirit beings cease to exist.



JLB

 

[Edward]

No. :neutral
('oikia' nominative, feminine) (oikodomen - accusative, feminine) They are forms of the same word.
oikian
oikian
G3614
n_ Acc Sg f

oikia
oikia
G3614
n_ Nom Sg f

That they are sister, I spoke that wrong. I do think the comparison is still a valid one though. We're the weaker being compared to spirit beings who wear a spiritual body. It's used in a different way though a form of the same word.

1 The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
Zechariah 12:1

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23

16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, Romans 8:16

We are created in the image and likeness of God.

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

The scriptures teach us that man has a spirit, soul and body and is created in the image and likeness of God, Who Himself is Spirit.

Man is a spirit.

Sons of God are spirit beings.


Show me a scripture that says spirit beings cease to exist.



JLB

Yep. I don't know what's so hard about this to understand. It's all there in black & white. We have a spirit and wear a flesh body for now.