Can Obedience To God Earn Salvation?

[farouk]

The fact is that it's all 'by grace' (Ephesians 2.8).

 

[Eventide]

The fact is that it's all 'by grace' (Ephesians 2.8).

By grace through faith.. and that's not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

Most folks struggle with this..

What must I DO to be saved.. ?

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

b) nothing

Then of course we'll have some say that they could not believe.. that's their testimony.. despite the mountains of evidence.. so then it all comes down to being lucky.. you're either chosen by God or you're not.. and once again, I can't think of a more shallow perspective on God than THAT.

 

[Danus]

By grace through faith.. and that's not of ourselves, it is the gift of God.

Most folks struggle with this..

What must I DO to be saved.. ?

a) Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

b) nothing

Then of course we'll have some say that they could not believe.. that's their testimony.. despite the mountains of evidence.. so then it all comes down to being lucky.. you're either chosen by God or you're not.. and once again, I can't think of a more shallow perspective on God than THAT.

Well if it's shallow to you then so be it, but that's my testimony. I rather think God is quite profound in what He does to take a lost man like me & give him the gift of grace for nothing that man has done to deserve it, but to simply let go of his own will. I don't think that's shallow at all. I think it's amazing.

 

[Webb]

When Paul said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" he was just begining to speak. Its always a good thing to read what follows.

 

[Eventide]

Well if it's shallow to you then so be it, but that's my testimony. I rather think God is quite profound in what He does to take a lost man like me & give him the gift of grace for nothing that man has done to deserve it, but to simply let go of his own will. I don't think that's shallow at all. I think it's amazing.

Well, amazing if you're one of the lucky ones..

It's actually embarassing to be in a CF and see the most basic and foundational aspects of the Gospel of God's Son withered to something like God unconditionally choosing you..

The atheists must think we're all a bunch of idiots.

 

[Eventide]

The man was not deceived...

When Paul said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" he was just begining to speak. Its always a good thing to read what follows.

A 100x over even... and that's not enough.. there's always something more in the infinitely glorious, living and powerful word of God..

And once again I believe the correct answer (and I could be wrong) to the OP question is clearly NO.. obedience to God in no way earns us the salvation which He alone has provided for Adam's fallen race..

But to suggest there is no obedience to the gospel of God's Son is spiritual suicide imo... Romans 1 teaches that it is unto obedience to all nations.. God is calling all men everywhere to show repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ... regardless of the fact that faith originates with Him.. because without the gospel and mountains of OT prophecy there would be no faith in Him..

Faith originates with God because the Holy Spirit has been sent into the world to convince the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.. and how the matter is entirely settled. He is that TRUE LIGHT which lighteth EVERY MAN that comes into the world.. (notice it doesn't say child)..

And it all started with deception and disobedience to begin with.. for the woman was deceived, but the man was not deceived.. he was outright disobedient..

There's an interesting word... disobedience..

The gospel call is to all men unto obedience.. repentance toward God for our sin and faith toward God's only begotten Son for the forgiveness of our sin.. because the truth is we have all been outright disobedience to God.. the bible says it plainly.. well, if you're a man that is..

The goodness of God does lead us to repentance.. but He doesn't repent for us.. because there's more to this life than that.. there's infinitely more than God flipping a switch for you and not for me.. most of His creatures fully understand the enormity of life.. and can even understand a man laying down his life for another man.. it's not rocket science by any stretch of the imagination..

God is calling us all back to faith in Him.. to turn us from the deception of the god of this world and to repent of our DISOBEDIENCE which resulted in the fall, even in the beginning...

 

[Butch5]

Well if it's shallow to you then so be it, but that's my testimony. I rather think God is quite profound in what He does to take a lost man like me & give him the gift of grace for nothing that man has done to deserve it, but to simply let go of his own will. I don't think that's shallow at all. I think it's amazing.

If you didn't make a choice how do you know you're saved?

 

[Danus]

If you didn't make a choice how do you know you're saved?

I turned to God in desperation with no real belief in him. I was lost and then I was found. In that hour I believed. It was not a choice that lead me to believe, it was an event; an experience that I did not have the power on my own to believe was possible.

 

[Butch5]

I turned to God in desperation with no real belief in him. I was lost and then I was found. In that hour I believed. It was not a choice that lead me to believe, it was an event; an experience that I did not have the power on my own to believe was possible.

Huh?

what part do you not hear?

 

[Danus]

Well, amazing if you're one of the lucky ones..

It's actually embarassing to be in a CF and see the most basic and foundational aspects of the Gospel of God's Son withered to something like God unconditionally choosing you..

The atheists must think we're all a bunch of idiots.

Lucky : As long as we are clear that you are the one who see's salvation as luck, then you can own that, since that's your interpretative.

What I am saying, what the gospel says, is that ANYONE who turns to GOD, Honestly, is "Lucky enough", as you would suggest, to receive salvation. What happens next is from God, not from themselves.

As for the atheist, why do you have a concern for them? there is not a true atheist on this forum; agnostic maybe, but a true atheist does not argue what they don't believe in and could care less.

 

[Danus]

I turned to God in desperation with no real belief in him. I was lost and then I was found. In that hour I believed. It was not a choice that lead me to believe, it was an event; an experience that I did not have the power on my own to believe was possible.

Huh?

what part do you not hear?

Are you familiar with a conversion?

 

[Grazer]

Saying no to God is one thing, not even being given the option to say yes is quite another.

 

[Eventide]

Lucky : As long as we are clear that you are the one who see's salvation as luck, then you can own that, since that's your interpretative.

Unconditional election is clearly luck.. Remember, it has nothing to do with you believing, repenting, etc etc..

What I am saying, what the gospel says, is that ANYONE who turns to GOD, Honestly, is "Lucky enough", as you would suggest, to receive salvation. What happens next is from God, not from themselves.

Gee, look at that... Anyone who turns to God.. Like repentance.. It's really nice to see you abandon the nonsense of unconditional election... And no kidding that salvation is from God and not us.

As for the atheist, why do you have a concern for them? there is not a true atheist on this forum; agnostic maybe, but a true atheist does not argue what they don't believe in and could care less.

I disagree Danus.. I was lost too, and I know that it had nothing to do with caring less.

 

[Danus]

Gee, look at that... Anyone who turns to God.. Like repentance.. It's really nice to see you abandon the nonsense of unconditional election... And no kidding that salvation is from God and not us.

I did not say turn to God in repentance. You did. I just said, turn to God. Repentance is a product of faith & there is no issue with anyone turning to God in faith. The understanding your having a problem with, & I don't know why, is that you don't like the idea of anyone turning to God, being given faith & then repenting. You have a huge problem with it, & seem to suggest your special because you made a conscious decision to be saved. Some how you improved on what God give freely. I think that's great.

 

[Eventide]

I did not say turn to God in repentance. You did.

Regardless.. you're the one who said that you turned to God.. how about someone who doesn't turn to God.. are they going to be sealed with the Holy Spirit of God..?

Sounds CONDITIONAL to me..

I just said, turn to God. Repentance is a product of faith & there is no issue with anyone turning to God in faith.

The scriptures are quite clear in teaching that the goodness of God leads us to repentance.. and that conviction leads to repentance toward God (Godly sorrow) and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ.

The understanding your having a problem with, & I don't know why, is that you don't like the idea of anyone turning to God, being given faith & then repenting. You have a huge problem with it, & seem to suggest your special because you made a conscious decision to be saved. Some how you improved on what God give freely. I think that's great.

I simply go by the scriptures Danus.. and obviously you're the one who has been led to believe that your specific conversion experience defines salvation somehow.. as if that's all that matters.

The scriptures are clear.. if you'd like to debate the truth of scripture then I would say that this makes YOU special.. and of course you're the one who claims that God chose YOU, and for absolutely nothing that YOU did..

So typical to try and turn this around though.. it's so predictable.

 

[Eventide]

And of course YOUR testimony is that you could NOT believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.. and that God choose YOU so that you would believe..

Now that is S P E C I A L . . .

 

[Eventide]

regeneration..

The Apostle to the Gentiles tells us specifically how each and every one of us were made members of the body of Christ.. and he clearly teaches that it was after we TRUSTED in Christ, after hearing the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, and that AFTER we believed, we were SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance in Him unto the day of redemption, unto the praise of the glory of His grace..

He says the same thing in 1 Cor 12:13, that by ONE SPIRIT we were all baptized into that ONE BODY..

Paul summarizes His Apostleship to the GENTILES in teaching repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ..

So let's face it.. when we were regenerated by God, not a single one of us had a clue as to what was going on at the time.. it's as we grow in the grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ that we find out how it all comes to be so to speak..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Belief is obedience, ASV Jn 3:36. SO one cannot be saved before they believe/obey.





You only hi-lite the last half of this verse and do not look at the implications of the first part of the verse. If this verse taught what you claim it does, then you are teaching Universalism. Do you believe in Universalism?

That Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

This scripture is teaching that those obeying Christ give evidence of Him being the Author of their Salvation !

In other words, if one never comes to obey the Gospel as Per 2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Then that simply means, Christ did not die for them, or He was not the Author of their Salvation !

Thats How and Why Christ, the One I serve believe in , is a Saviour, because He is the Author of Salvation which causes obedeince tobediencepel !

What about the christ you serve ?

 

[Danus]

Regardless.. you're the one who said that you turned to God.. how about someone who doesn't turn to God.. are they going to be sealed with the Holy Spirit of God..?

Sounds CONDITIONAL to me..
.

This is not what we mean by unconditional. Unconditional means that salvation is not. Conditional to Mans being good or right. That's it.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

IMO unconditional election is false doctrine.. and I've told you before that I agree that salvation is conditional upon obeying the gospel call.. and that's repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ..

The word of God in Acts 5 flat out tells that He gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey Him...

That's obviously conditional... and Paul affirms the same thing.. that God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation THROUGH sanctification of the Spirit and BELIEF of the truth.

How much clearer does the gospel of God's Son (which is unto obedience to all nations) need to be ?

So if unconditional election is false (and it is) then each man chooses within his own heart to believe or not believe when he hears God's word, Rom 10:17. So faith is never something God gives to some and not others unconditionally.