Can Obedience To God Earn Salvation?

[Eventide]

This is not what we mean by unconditional. Unconditional means that salvation is not. Conditional to Mans being good or right. That's it.

Wow, could have fooled me.. I've read countless definitions from Reformed websites and there's more to it than that.. evidently you're not aware of what Unconditional Election actually is.

 

[Eventide]

So if unconditional election is false (and it is) then each man chooses within his own heart to believe or not believe when he hears God's word, Rom 10:17. So faith is never something God gives to some and not others unconditionally.

I agree.. what's so hard to understand about the Holy Spirit convicting the world of sin.. or the Lord being that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world..

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Your sinful nature is on you not God. God offers a way out for you. You have knowledge of God, and any man can have faith, but it is from God to those he chooses as HE sees fit fir HIS glory, not theirs. If you have faith you did not provide it for yourself, God did. If you don't, pray for it.

Man does not have a "sinful nature", he is not "totally depraved". These are man-made teachings and not found in the bible.

Secondly, God forms the spirit within man, Zech 12:1 and that spirit God forms would be as pure as God Himself. God does not form depraved spirit within man. If He did then God is culpable for man's depraved spirit. If I was born with a depraved, sinful nature I did not choose that for myself, I had no control over that, it would be something forced upon me against my will, something I would not be accountable for.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

And the ones he says no to? They're just unlucky and won't spend eternity with him? God has already said yes, he's waiting for us to say the same.

There's the problem they have. If God says 'no' then God is forcing me to be an unbeliever, forcing me to sin the sin of unbelief and then God eternally punishes me for the sin He forced upon me. If this were the case, than the bible is lying to me when it tells me God is love, just, merciful, graceful, etc.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There's a difference between doing something because you have to and doing it because you love them. If you're gonna obey God, do it because you love Him, not out of "I have to do it to get salvation" or "I don't wanna go to hell" or "I don't want bad things to happen" I think God wants our obedice as an act of love rather than...anything else. I mean, he wants a relationship right? And it wouldn't be a very healthy relationship if we were doing stuff for God just to get a nice vacation for the rest of eternity or out of fear. Neither of those are good.

Obedience is love...."If ye love Me, keep my commandments".

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The fact is that it's all 'by grace' (Ephesians 2.8).

God's grace and man's faith according to Eph 2:8 and not grace only.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Obedience is love...."If ye love Me, keep my commandments".

A Man cannot Love God without first being born again, or having a circumcised heart by the operation of God. Deut 30:6

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


The very first man Adam, man at his best, failed to Love God and keep his commandments, now only the Newly Created Man can and does Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

When Paul said "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" he was just begining to speak. Its always a good thing to read what follows.

Yes, when Paul commanded the jailer to beleive in Acts 16:31 Paul had not yet told the jailer wat to believe for verse 32 they then spoke the Lord of the Lord...faith comes by hearing the word of God Rom 10:17. Afterwards the jailer beleived, he was repentant as seen by his washing their stripes and he was baptized. Verse 34 says " having believed in God", ASV. This participle phrase includes all the jailer had just done including his repentance and being baptized. So "having believed' includes repentance and baptism just as the word "believed" in Acts 2:44 includes being baptized of verse 41.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

That Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

This scripture is teaching that those obeying Christ give evidence of Him being the Author of their Salvation !

In other words, if one never comes to obey the Gospel as Per 2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Then that simply means, Christ did not die for them, or He was not the Author of their Salvation !

Thats How and Why Christ, the One I serve believe in , is a Saviour, because He is the Author of Salvation which causes obedeince tobediencepel !

What about the christ you serve ?

Heb 5:9 makes obedience conditional to being saved. Christ does not save people while they are living in disobedience to Him. They have to first obey THEN Christ saves them. If one remains in disobedience and dies that way God will have vengeance upon him.

In Rom 6:16 paul says you serve one of two msters;, either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedienceunto righteousness.

I serve #2. Whch one do you seve?

Note Paul said obedience UNTO righteousness and did NOT say obedience because of righteousness.

 

[BornAgain]

It is so much better to obey God..1 Samuel 15:22.
To obey is to submit to authority without question. Many people object to authority and refuse to obey. Obedience is the theme throughout the Bible. Noah obeyed when God told him to build an ark, Gen 6:22. Ex 25:40 instructions were given in the building of the tabernacle. Lev 10 the two men that were given instructions to build a fire and they disobeyed God and offered strange fire and God took their lives.

Ecc 12:13, Matt 7:21, Acts 5:23, Romans 6:17, Rev 22:14 all scriptures refer to obedience.

Why is it better to obey God? It makes us like Jesus...Jesus obeyed his Father. Heb 5:8-9. Jesus' existence was to do the will of the Father. In Luke 2:51 Jesus obeyed his parents.

We can choose to disobey God, but when I consider what God has done for me how could I ever want to disobey God? It is my duty to obey God. John 14:15-Jesus said if you love Me, keep my commandments. When we love Him, we obey him. Repent and be baptized if you love Jesus, do not forsake the assembly if you love Him. Luke 6:46-why call Me Lord, Lord and do not the things I say?

When a person turns their ear away from God, even their prayer is an abomination to God. 1 Pet 3:12 If we want God to listen to us we have to listen to Him.

To obey is better because it is the foundation of our salvation. 1 John 2:3.
How can you be sure you know God? We can have the assurance of our salvation if we obey Jesus and keep his commandments and it is the evidence of our faith. There is no faith without obeying God. Obedience is the way that opens up heaven to us.

 

[Danus]

Wow, could have fooled me.. I've read countless definitions from Reformed websites and there's more to it than that.. evidently you're not aware of what Unconditional Election actually is.

No you have not read anything on a true reformed site about unconditional election that says anything other than what I said of it, because what I've said of it is that God chooses who will be saved & those people will come to God and they will receive grace through the faith God gives them just as I have, and if God can call me he can call anyone, but not everyone is saved. Those that do not come to God are not called to do so.

 

[Eventide]

No you have not read anything on a true reformed site about unconditional election that says anything other than what I said of it, because what I've said of it is that God chooses who will be saved & those people will come to God and they will receive grace through the faith God gives them just as I have, and if God can call me he can call anyone, but not everyone is saved. Those that do not come to God are not called to do so.

LOL... Ok Danus..

Let's make it real simple..

How about believing on the Lord Jesus Christ..

Is that conditional for being saved or not ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

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Heb 5:9 makes obedience conditional to being saved.

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So be it, you believe a lie, see you at the Judgment, where your salvation by works will be condemned ! I showed you the error of your thinking, and you reject it !

 

[Eventide]

Whose voice ?

It's amazing to me that people can either listen to the simplicity of the living and powerful word of God.. or the words of men..

It's obvious what voice they're listening to here..

RC Sproul and company... and the brilliant scholars of the day..

Honouring the doctrines of men.. and a dead man at that... John Calvin..

 

[Eventide]

Religious pride..

The real issue here though is pride.. many Christians can't be corrected today.. not even by the infinitely glorious living and powerful word of God...

 

[Danus]

LOL... Ok Danus..

Let's make it real simple..

How about believing on the Lord Jesus Christ..

Is that conditional for being saved or not ?

I have never had a problem with that truth sir.

 

[Eventide]

I have never had a problem with that truth sir.

Then it should be a joy to answer.. must we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved or not.. ?

Is that conditional or unconditional ?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

A Man cannot Love God without first being born again, or having a circumcised heart by the operation of God. Deut 30:6

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


The very first man Adam, man at his best, failed to Love God and keep his commandments, now only the Newly Created Man can and does Eph 4:24

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Being born again is the same as being water baptized so being born again is obedience to God. One cannot be saved till they first obey by being born again. Col 2:12 the circumcision "made without hands" is done by God and occurs when one is water baptized. THis is when God does the work of cutting away the body of sin.

 

[Eventide]

Being born again is the same as being water bpatized.

You've got to be kidding.. sadly, I know that you're not..

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

eb




So be it, you believe a lie, see you at the Judgment, where your salvation by works will be condemned ! I showed you the error of your thinking, and you reject it !

The verse says Christ is the author of salvation unto all them that obey Him. This makes obedience a condition to being saved.

You try and change the verse to read that Christ is the author of savlation uto all them that are disobedient to Him.


I asked you:

In Rom 6:16 Paul says you serve one of two masters;, either:

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness.

I serve #2. Whch one do you serve?

[Note Paul said obedience UNTO righteousness and did NOT say obedience because of righteousness.]


Why were you afraid to answer which one you serve?