Can sinning be overcome?

[Fastfredy0]

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Wasn't sarcastic, lest wise that was not my intent. It was an honest answer. I don't think it is possible to stop sinning in this life save for the two examples I gave. Why is truth, at least I honestly think what I am saying is true ... why is the truth sarcastic?

Sarcasm - A cutting, often ironic remark intended to express contempt or ridicule.
Again, not my intent as I didn't ridicule anyone and I do not have contempt for the question.

 

[justbyfaith]

This contradicts 1 John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do not commit sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

It says, "If we say that we have no sin..."

It is referring to the element of indwelling sin;

Which can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12 (nlt)).

Well, Paul was best Christian I ever heard of and he said he could do it. Do you think he had little faith? Gee, he went to the 3rd heaven and did miracles and still couldn't stop sinning. 5 For I do not understand my own actions [I am baffled and bewildered by them]. I do not practice what I want to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate [and yielding to my human nature, my worldliness—my sinful capacity]. 16 Now if I habitually do what I do not want to do, [that means] I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good (morally excellent).

Romans 7:14-25 is Paul using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION in order to define carnality in order to win the carnal person to Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

He was not carnal in that instance; otherwise he would not have been penning holy scripture (2 Peter 1:21).

But he was setting himself forth as carnal in a literary tactic determined to define carnality in order to win the carnal person to a life of holiness in the grace of Christ.

Well, when you get to heaven you can tell Paul your secret.

I'll tell it to you right now...it amounts to walking according to the Spirit rather than the flesh.

Yes, I can stop for 5 minutes too.

Then, according to the logic I have given in the previous post, you are accountable for for ever.

It should be clear what was Jesus' purpose for coming to the earth to die for our sins:

Mat 1:21, And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.

It is written,

1Th 5:23, Now may the God of peace make you holy in every way, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again.
1Th 5:24, God will make this happen, for he who calls you is faithful.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[Hopeful]

Can sinning can be overcome in this life with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Answer to the title...Yes, sin can be overcome.
Peter wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)

Some Preachers and even theologian do not believe that all sinning can be overcome in this life either with or without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Only certain sins can be overcome, thus they leave a 'gap' where sin can continue in our lives.

Any accommodation for sin is not of God, (and a signal to start running).

But people take this to mean that they can keep sinning as there is nothing they can do, or that these 'sins' are not really "hard sins" or "iniquity", but just part of being in a sinful world. Is that correct according to scripture?

It is accommodating sin.

Here are some texts on how we choose to heed the desires of our flesh, and for whatever reason, set aside the conviction of the Holy Spirit. "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" Mark 14:38.

Thank God for the way of making it possible to walk after the Sprit, instead of after the flesh.

James 1:14-15 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death."

It is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Look for the promised escapes when you are tempted.

Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish."

The answer for that is in the previous verse..."This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Gal 5:16)
It is enabled by Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
That crucifixion happens with Christ at water baptism..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:3-7)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If you define sin as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), then of course no one can keep the law perfectly (Galatians 6:13) and therefore all of us are defined as sinners.

However, Christians are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

Sin is now defined for us as walking according to the flesh (Romans 8:4).

Under that definition we can indeed be victorious according to the scripture I posted in the post that is previous to this one.

Do do people who live and work with find you to never ever do any wrong to them?

 

[justbyfaith]

Do the people who live and work with you find you to never ever do any wrong to them?

I'll be honest with you...sometimes I forget to clean up my mess after I have been in the bathroom and my wife doesn't like that very much.

However, let me also say that I don't think that this is a heart sin where I am being malicious towards her and neither is it a work of the flesh.

Do you agree or disagree with my premise, based on Romans 8:12 (nlt), that if sin is defined as walking according to the flesh, that we do not have to sin?

Consider 1 John 3:9. Even if that verse is hyperbole, it is exaggerating to make the point that whom the Son sets free is free indeed...wherein, in context (John 8:31-36), we were formerly slaves of sin and have now been set free from sin.

As I have said, if sin be defined as the transgression of the law, or even as "missing the mark" of perfection, I am in agreement with you that we all fall short.

However, my contention is that in the NT, sin is definable as walking according to the flesh rather than according to the Spirit.

By that definition, we can walk in freedom and victory, agree or disagree?

For it is written,

Rom 8:12 (nlt), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.

It is also written,

1Co 10:13 (nlt), The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

Or, in the kjv:

1Co 10:13, There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

For I am not preaching sinless perfection (eradication of sin from the body) here.

Rather, I am preaching entire sanctification (the rendering of the element of sin within the body, as dead).

 

[justbyfaith]

In post #22, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 quoted out of the NLT.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I'll be honest with you...sometimes I forget to clean up my mess after I have been in the bathroom and my wife doesn't like that very much.

However, let me also say that I don't think that this is a heart sin where I am being malicious towards her and neither is it a work of the flesh.

Do you agree or disagree with my premise, based on Romans 8:12 (nlt), that if sin is defined as walking according to the flesh, that we do not have to sin?

Consider 1 John 3:9. Even if that verse is hyperbole, it is exaggerating to make the point that whom the Son sets free is free indeed...wherein, in context (John 8:31-36), we were formerly slaves of sin and have now been set free from sin.

As I have said, if sin be defined as the transgression of the law, or even as "missing the mark" of perfection, I am in agreement with you that we all fall short.

However, my contention is that in the NT, sin is definable as walking according to the flesh rather than according to the Spirit.

By that definition, we can walk in freedom and victory, agree or disagree?

For it is written,

Rom 8:12 (nlt), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.

It is also written,

1Co 10:13 (nlt), The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

Or, in the kjv:

1Co 10:13, There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

For I am not preaching sinless perfection (eradication of sin from the body) here.

Rather, I am preaching entire sanctification (the rendering of the element of sin within the body, as dead).

You are the first person I’ve ever exchanged with who leaned towards or held the “sinless is possible” position who had honest humility. Quite refreshing! All the others insisted they were sinless and it didn’t matter what man (or God for that matter) thought about their actual behaviour.

Now since you are a kind and gentle man, we can reasonably discuss this.

My sense is you are taking scripture and making a kind of legal position. That is, we aren’t under law. But aren’t you forgetting the law or demands of the newest law or commandment which is to treat others as you’d like to be treated?

Let’s look at 1 Cor 10:13 where it says that we must WITHSTAND temptation. It promises it won’t be too hard, but isn’t anywhere close to easy. It promises we will have to deny our desires. This is elsewhere too in take up your cross. This means the potential to sin is always present because temptation is always possible.

So if the law of loving others as we’d like to be loved is imperative, then in one way we are free (from sin) but in another way we are bound (to obey.) I am not free at work to do as others do at times. But in another way I am more free.

My train is arriving so I must end here for now. Looking forward to more from you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If you define sin as the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), then of course no one can keep the law perfectly (Galatians 6:13) and therefore all of us are defined as sinners.

However, Christians are not under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6) as concerning condemnation.

Sin is now defined for us as walking according to the flesh (Romans 8:4).

Under that definition we can indeed be victorious according to the scripture I posted in the post that is previous to this one.

You know, that sounds like a lesser definition of sin because it’s unclear. But truthfully the bar just got raised. If a man is walking by the spirit, he will anticipate the needs of others way beyond the law. The old law won’t require you to share your lunch. The new law will. The old law doesn’t require kindness. The new law, the law of walking in the spirit not the (unkind) flesh does.)

So the standard is higher.

(Am in streetcar so I have a few minutes.)

 

[GodsGrace]

I'll be honest with you...sometimes I forget to clean up my mess after I have been in the bathroom and my wife doesn't like that very much.

However, let me also say that I don't think that this is a heart sin where I am being malicious towards her and neither is it a work of the flesh.

Do you agree or disagree with my premise, based on Romans 8:12 (nlt), that if sin is defined as walking according to the flesh, that we do not have to sin?

Consider 1 John 3:9. Even if that verse is hyperbole, it is exaggerating to make the point that whom the Son sets free is free indeed...wherein, in context (John 8:31-36), we were formerly slaves of sin and have now been set free from sin.

As I have said, if sin be defined as the transgression of the law, or even as "missing the mark" of perfection, I am in agreement with you that we all fall short.

However, my contention is that in the NT, sin is definable as walking according to the flesh rather than according to the Spirit.

By that definition, we can walk in freedom and victory, agree or disagree?

For it is written,

Rom 8:12 (nlt), Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.

It is also written,

1Co 10:13 (nlt), The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.

Or, in the kjv:

1Co 10:13, There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

For I am not preaching sinless perfection (eradication of sin from the body) here.

Rather, I am preaching entire sanctification (the rendering of the element of sin within the body, as dead).

Hi,
I'd be very interested in knowing if Hopeful agrees with the above, especially about your definition of sin, based on the example given re your wife's displeasure with you.

He SEEMS to agree with you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi,
I'd be very interested in knowing if Hopeful agrees with the above, especially about your definition of sin, based on the example given re your wife's displeasure with you.

He SEEMS to agree with you.

My experience with those who hold this theology is that they tend to go to great lengths to redefine lapses of godly spirit-led behavior spas to
avoid that identified as “sin.”

 

[justbyfaith]

You know, that sounds like a lesser definition of sin because it’s unclear. But truthfully the bar just got raised. If a man is walking by the spirit, he will anticipate the needs of others way beyond the law. The old law won’t require you to share your lunch. The new law will. The old law doesn’t require kindness. The new law, the law of walking in the spirit not the (unkind) flesh does.)

So the standard is higher.

(Am in streetcar so I have a few minutes.)

It is, in a sense, a higher standard (see Matthew 5:20).

However, the paradox is found in that we cannot keep the lower standard perfectly (Galatians 6:13); while, if we have the Spirit, we can be obedient to the higher standard (Romans 8:4).

For example, the lower standard (the law of Moses) requires that I wear tassels on my garments in order to remind me to obey the law; which I find myself unable to keep because I do not know where to buy or how to make a garment with tassels (and I think that it is something also that is reminiscent of what the Judaizers were trying to do to the Galatians in Paul's day; so I think that even if I had access to tassels, I wouldn't wear them unless I in the same breath told people that I myself do not measure up to the standard of the law and used it as an opportunity to show them that they themselves are not keeping the law perfectly unless they can also do what I am doing in wearing those tassels; and that even with the tassels, there are other tenets in the law that they would have to be obedient to; such as blowing the chofar on every new moon).

While the standard of Romans 8:4 requires an inward change; which is indeed a higher standard which would be impossible to keep if not for the Holy Spirit coming to dwell within me and shedding His love abroad in my heart (Romans 5:5).

But because it is the Holy Spirit's work, it is easier, even though it is a higher standard; because the yoke of Jesus is easy and His burden is light (Matthew 11:28-30); while the yoke of the law is heavy and represents a burden that neither we nor our forefathers were able to bear (Acts 15:10).

Also, with the higher standard of walking after the Spirit rather than the flesh, it is impossible unless one has the Spirit to begin with.

Yet, if anyone has the Spirit, it is not a matter of striving but of resting in the grace of God.

My salvation rests on the fact that Jesus died in my place as a substitute: my sins were applied to His account as He took their penalty, and His righteousness, perfection, and blood, are applied to my account so that I now have access to heaven (i.e. the throne room of the Father, Hebrews 4:16).

As I trust that Jesus lived the perfect life that is applied to my account, I now no longer have to strive to keep from sinning but I can rest in the grace of Jesus and just be,

If, in that, it turns out that I am still a sinner, at least I know that I am not seeking to establish my own righteousness but am resting in the righteousness that is provided through the blood of Jesus as it is imputed to me (see Romans 10:3).

If, in that, it turns out that I am becoming more and more like Christ, then that is the work of the Holy Spirit in sanctification.

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

But I find that Jesus can only live a perfect life; so if it is Jesus who is living His life in me and through me (see Galatians 2:20), then the life that is lived is going to be a perfect one.

It is only when I take back my life that I get into trouble. When I am the one who is doing the living, I am sure to sin.

The problem with a living sacrifice (see Romans 12:1-2) is that it has the tendency to crawl off the altar.

Thus it is written,

Psa 118:27, God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here are a few verses that I think apply quite well in the order that I will present them.

Rom 11:32, For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

Gal 3:22, But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

Jhn 8:31, Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings.
Jhn 8:32, And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Jhn 8:33, “But we are descendants of Abraham,” they said. “We have never been slaves to anyone. What do you mean, ‘You will be set free’?”
Jhn 8:34, Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave of sin.
Jhn 8:35, A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever.
Jhn 8:36, So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free.

(Verses quoted out of the NLT).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It is, in a sense, a higher standard (see Matthew 5:20).

However, the paradox is found in that we cannot keep the lower standard perfectly (Galatians 6:13);

So? What does that matter? If a wife tells her husband on their wedding day that she can’t promise to love him everyday through thin and thick, is she off the hook for trying?

while, if we have the Spirit, we can be obedient to the higher standard (Romans 8:4).

I don’t see a difference. The point you make is a legal one. If we can’t do all the law then you think we suddenly can because of a verse? Is this what you see in churches? The verse is still there.

For example, the lower standard (the law of Moses) requires that I wear tassels on my garments in order to remind me to obey the law; which I find myself unable to keep because I do not know where to buy or how to make a garment with tassels (and I think that it is something also that is reminiscent of what the Judaizers were trying to do to the Galatians in Paul's day; so I think that even if I had access to tassels, I wouldn't wear them unless I in the same breath told people that I myself do not measure up to the standard of the law and used it as an opportunity to show them that they themselves are not keeping the law perfectly unless they can also do what I am doing in wearing those tassels; and that even with the tassels, there are other tenets in the law that they would have to be obedient to; such as blowing the chofar on every new moon).

While the standard of Romans 8:4 requires an inward change; which is indeed a higher standard which would be impossible to keep if not for the Holy Spirit coming to dwell within me and shedding His love abroad in my heart (Romans 5:5).

Yes the inward change is the difference. My point is does it being written in Romans make it true in real life between christians and everyone else? I mean, a man can read a complimentary verse in the Bible and claim, “by faith that describes me” and God and man are justified in asking, “when?”

But because it is the Holy Spirit's work, it is easier, even though it is a higher standard; because the yoke of Jesus is easy and His burden is light (Matthew 11:28-30); while the yoke of the law is heavy and represents a burden that neither we nor our forefathers were able to bear (Acts 15:10).

So your claim is you always obey the HS without fail?

Also, with the higher standard of walking after the Spirit rather than the flesh, it is impossible unless one has the Spirit to begin with.

Yet, if anyone has the Spirit, it is not a matter of striving but of resting in the grace of God.

No, the Bible says we, not God, put to death the wrong desires. It says we must resist temptation not that we are never tempted. Jesus said “deny your self” not “it will be easy to avoid wrong choices.”

My salvation rests on the fact that Jesus died in my place as a substitute: my sins were applied to His account as He took their penalty, and His righteousness, perfection, and blood, are applied to my account so that I now have access to heaven (i.e. the throne room of the Father, Hebrews 4:16).

Ok, elementary christianity.

As I trust that Jesus lived / lives the perfect life that is applied to my account, I now no longer have to strive to keep from sinning but I can rest in the grace of Jesus and just be,

No, fraid not. 2 Cor 5:10 tells Paul and us that we will have to give an account for the deeds done while living. Judgement is coming and no his deeds are not credited to us.

If, in that, it turns out that I am still a sinner, at least I know that I am not seeking to establish my own righteousness but am resting in the righteousness that is provided through the blood of Jesus as it is imputed to me (see Romans 10:3).

Drop the righteousness seeking and focus on obeying. The focus on your righteousness is too myopic. It is actually supported by the pride. It a “I am (positive adjective)” instead of “what do you want me to do, Master?”

If, in that, it turns out that I am becoming more and more like Christ, then that is the work of the Holy Spirit in sanctification.

Only to the degree you obey his commands to you, nothing less. This is not appropriated by faith.

As it is written,

Pro 4:18, But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

But I find that Jesus can only live a perfect life; so if it is Jesus who is living His life in me and through me (see Galatians 2:20), then the life that is lived is going to be a perfect one.

Why does your life need to be perfect? Isn’t this pride speaking?

It is only when I take back my life that I get into trouble. When I am the one who is doing the living, I am sure to sin.

Well it’s better to work on obedience day by day and the above is disobedience that ought to be repented of as it is SIN.

The problem with a living sacrifice (see Romans 12:1-2) is that it has the tendency to crawl off the altar.

Thus it is written,

Psa 118:27, God is the LORD, which hath shewed us light: bind the sacrifice with cords, even unto the horns of the altar.

Disobedience which is as the sin of witchcraft….not a slip. So, you see, the sinless perfection is not so easy as believing it is attainable so it describes you by faith.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Here are a few verses that I think apply quite well in the order that I will present them.

Rom 11:32, For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

Gal 3:22, But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

Jhn 8:31, Jesus said to the people who believed in him, “You are truly my disciples if you remain faithful to my teachings.
Jhn 8:32, And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Jhn 8:33, “But we are descendants of Abraham,” they said. “We have never been slaves to anyone. What do you mean, ‘You will be set free’?”
Jhn 8:34, Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave of sin.
Jhn 8:35, A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever.
Jhn 8:36, So if the Son sets you free, you are truly free.

(Verses quoted out of the NLT).

You do realize that you need to choose to remain faithful to the teachings of Christ? This is not by faith that you are faithful. His faithfulness is NOT accredit to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

So? What does that matter? If a wife tells her husband on their wedding day that she can’t promise to love him everyday through thin and thick, is she off the hook for trying?

I think that actually doing is better than promising to do something and then not doing it (see Matthew 21:28-32)

I don’t see a difference. The point you make is a legal one. If we can’t do all the law then you think we suddenly can because of a verse? Is this what you see in churches? The verse is still there.

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

Yes the inward change is the difference. My point is does it being written in Romans make it true in real life between christians and everyone else? I mean, a man can read a complimentary verse in the Bible and claim, “by faith that describes me” and God and man are justified in asking, “when?”

Are you contending for the idea that the Bible isn't true as it applies to us?

I am not necessarily contending for the idea that I myself have attained to the goal of entire sanctification; what I am contending for is that it is possible to obtain that goal.

So your claim is you always obey the HS without fail?

I become more obedient as time passes (see Proverbs 4:18). I am being transformed by the renewing of my mind.

No, the Bible says we, not God, put to death the wrong desires. It says we must resist temptation not that we are never tempted. Jesus said “deny your self” not “it will be easy to avoid wrong choices.”

It is God who works in us both to will and to do according to His good pleasure (Philippians 2:12).

No, fraid not. 2 Cor 5:10 tells Paul and us that we will have to give an account for the deeds done while living. Judgement is coming and no his deeds are not credited to us.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24).

My bad deeds that I have done will be burned away as wood, hay, stubble; while my good works will remain as gold, silver, and precious gems; because I am a believer in Christ.

Drop the righteousness seeking and focus on obeying. The focus on your righteousness is too myopic. It is actually supported by the pride. It a “I am (positive adjective)” instead of “what do you want me to do, Master?”

Obedience and righteousness are almost synonymous in my book.

Of course, righteousness comes by faith, not by obedience; while it produces obedience.

Only to the degree you obey his commands to you, nothing less. This is not appropriated by faith.

I disagree.

Why does your life need to be perfect? Isn’t this pride speaking?

Nope. God requires perfection of His children (Matthew 5:48).

That is why Jesus had to die. Because none of us could be perfect.

We need His sacrifice because we are sinners.

However, it is written,

Pro 21:3, To do justice and judgment is more acceptable to the LORD than sacrifice.

and,

1Sa 15:22, And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well it’s better to work on obedience day by day and the above is disobedience that ought to be repented of as it is SIN.

I was speaking for all of us.

Let me reiterate.

If anyone is living his / her own life instead of letting Jesus live His life in and through him / her, he / she will get into trouble. In living his / her own life he / she will sin because he / she is a sinner by nature.

So, of course it is SIN.

Disobedience which is as the sin of witchcraft….not a slip. So, you see, the sinless perfection is not so easy as believing it is attainable so it describes you by faith.

So, you had better be perfectly obedient or else you are as guilty as a witch.

You do realize that you need to choose to remain faithful to the teachings of Christ? This is not by faith that you are faithful. His faithfulness is NOT accredit to you.

Nope. That's a lie from the pit.

 

[justbyfaith]

Disobedience which is as the sin of witchcraft….not a slip. So, you see, the sinless perfection is not so easy as believing it is attainable so it describes you by faith.

I don't believe that "sinless perfection" describes me by faith because it is attainable.

1) "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that is often applied to the doctrine of entire sanctification as a straw man that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8. While entire sanctification as a doctrine does not state that sin is eradicated from the body; but that rather, it is rendered dead as an element dwelling within the body, so that it no longer has any authority over my behaviour.

2) I gauge whether or not I am practically living as Jesus would have me live by the law of faith.

It becomes complicated because the law has confined everyone as being a sinner; and yet in Romans 8:4, we find that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

So, these are not defined as sinners.

Nevertheless, these are not defined as righteous by the letter of the law but by the spirit of it (Romans 7:6).

So, how do we know what sin is?

1) It is defined as the works of the flesh in Galatians 5:19-21.

2) It is defined a being anything that is not of faith in Romans 14:23.

3) There are other definitions for sin in the Bible which I don't think that I will expound upon here.

 

[justbyfaith]

Drop the righteousness seeking and focus on obeying.

No.

For it is written,

Mat 6:33, But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is not by faith that you are faithful.

The term "faithful" is a derivative of the word "faith".

Those who have faith are said to be faithful, therefore.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I was speaking for all of us.

We aren’t responsible for all of us.

Let me reiterate.

If anyone is living his / her own life instead of letting Jesus live His life in and through him / her, he / she will get into trouble. In living his / her own life he / she will sin because he / she is a sinner by nature.

Jesus said we needed to follow his teaching which is measurable. This vague “living for Jesus” is not what he says nor is it measurable. Where he he say “live for me?”

So, of course it is SIN.

So, you had better be perfectly obedient or else you are as guilty as a witch.

Nope, not at all. Jesus said just giving a little one a cup of water in his name is rewarded. He does not require 100% obedience. That’s a standard human pride requires.

Nope. That's a lie from the pit.

Not at all. You will stand and answer for the deeds done in the body. That is scripture.