Can sinning be overcome?

[Dorothy Mae]

No.

For it is written,

Mat 6:33, But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

His righteousness, not yours. You were seeking to be righteous which is YOUR righteousness.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus said we needed to follow his teaching which is measurable. This vague “living for Jesus” is not what he says nor is it measurable. Where he he say “live for me?”

Such a thing just might indeed offend someone with a religious spirit.

Righteousness does not have to be measurable.

However, if you are going to measure it, measure it by this standard:

Eph 4:13, This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The term "faithful" is a derivative of the word "faith".

Those who have faith are said to be faithful, therefore.

No matter what do actually do to
whom I guess. All fruits of the Spirit or good character is acquired by believing it’s there.

 

[justbyfaith]

deleted.

reason: technical difficulties.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Such a thing just might indeed offend someone with a religious spirit.

Righteousness does not have to be measurable.

However, if you are going to measure it, measure it by this standard:

Eph 4:13, This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.

Nope, not at all. Jesus said just giving a little one a cup of water in his name is rewarded. He does not require 100% obedience. That’s a standard human pride requires.

Ok, I see you are indeed one of those who claim all the perfection and faithfulness and rewards of Jesus by faith without having to actually be different.

The standard is just “acknowledge the son” …easy and cheap. I have had enough experience with these “perfect by proclamation types” before. I’m only sorry that when you expect the same reward Jesus received it will by quite sad as that won’t be the case.

 

[justbyfaith]

No matter what do actually do to
whom I guess. All fruits of the Spirit or good character is acquired by believing it’s there.

No, actually the fruit of the Spirit is developed in our lives when we place our roots deep down into the love of the Lord.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok, I see you are indeed one of those who claim all the perfection and faithfulness and rewards of Jesus by faith without having to actually be different.

The standard is just “acknowledge the son” …easy and cheap. I have had enough experience with these “perfect by proclamation types” before. I’m only sorry that when you expect the same reward Jesus received it will by quite sad as that won’t be the case.

It seems to me that you believe in salvation by works (correct me if I'm wrong).

Being sanctified does in fact mean that you will live differently than if you are not sanctified.

However, there is such a thing as "positional sanctification"...which I will define here as justification.

 

[justbyfaith]

I’m only sorry that when you expect the same reward Jesus received it will by quite sad as that won’t be the case.

His righteousness is in fact imputed to the believer according to the scriptures.

 

[justbyfaith]

We aren’t responsible for all of us.

"I am not my brother's keeper?"

You really want to identify with that person?

Nope, not at all. Jesus said just giving a little one a cup of water in his name is rewarded. He does not require 100% obedience. That’s a standard human pride requires.

But disobedience is as the sin of witchcraft, as you have said.

So, the slightest disobedience is as witchcraft; making you as guilty as a witch.

Also:

Jas 2:10, For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Gal 3:10, For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Mat 5:48, Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Not at all. You will stand and answer for the deeds done in the body. That is scripture.

As I have said, my bad deeds will burn away as wood, hay, and stubble, while my good deeds will remain as gold, sliver, and precious gems: because I am a believer in Christ (1 Corinthians 3:11-15).

That will be my judgment.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (John 5:24).

 

[justbyfaith]

His righteousness, not yours. You were seeking to be righteous which is YOUR righteousness.

Mat 5:20, For I say unto you, That except "your righteousness" shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

btw, I have been contending for the fact that His righteousness is imputed to me and you have rejected that.

So who is really seeking their own righteousness here?

I have also said that the (practical) righteousness I am seeking can only come by Christ living His life in me and through me.

So, how am I seeking "my own righteousness"?

Why have you suddenly become so hostile to me?

 

[justbyfaith]

His righteousness, not yours. You were seeking to be righteous which is YOUR righteousness.

Also, I am saying that it is His righteousness which we obtain through sanctification; which is not impractical.

Because I know that some believe that if the righteousness that is in me is practical, then it can only be "my righteousness" and not His.

However, His righteousness is in fact practical.

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

(question: how righteous is Jesus?)

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[justbyfaith]

He does not require 100% obedience.

Matthew 5:48 says otherwise.

And for the one whose sins are not covered by the blood of Jesus, what will be required of them on the day of judgment will be perfect obedience to the law from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10).

 

[justbyfaith]

avoid vain arguments - do not bite and devour

discussing scripture is such a blessing - there are so many treasures in the bible and people see things differently which makes for an opportunity to expand our understanding of God's messages to us i wonder what makes people turn a discussion on a topic into a discussion of the person we...

christianforums.net

 

[justbyfaith]

Dorothy Mae, I want to apologize to you for implying that you have a religious spirit.

People have done that to me and I didn't like it very much.

So, what do I do?

I start pulling that same shennanigan on other people!

I just want you to know that I understand that I am a sinner saved by grace who believes that my sanctification will be complete someday and even possibly within my lifetime.

For I believe that

Luk 1:37, For with God nothing shall be impossible.

And that

Eph 3:20, Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy Mae, I want to apologize to you for implying that you have a religious spirit.

People have done that to me and I didn't like it very much.

So, what do I do?

I start pulling that same shennanigan on other people!

I just want you to know that I understand that I am a sinner saved by grace who believes that my sanctification will be complete someday and even possibly within my lifetime.

For I believe that

Luk 1:37, For with God nothing shall be impossible.

And that

Eph 3:20, Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Well, I didn’t read that post where you wrongly said that and will now skip it so no worries. I’m very happy to bypass insulting posts. All is well, my brother.

People with your view tend to quote a lot of scriptures promising them that they are better people/more like Christ/sinless and so claim it is so. My impression is that human pride is behind it all, not love. They want the man in the mirror to be great so they quote scriptures assuring them that God promises this.

What they will never experience is actually pleasing the Father as the focus is pleasing themselves. You see, I don’t care about being “righteous,” I care deeply about hearing (again) “well done” from Him. I don’t even care about my salvation or Heaven. I care about knowing him and tasting the sweet fellowship of his sufferings and the power of resurrection. I don’t care about reaching sinlessness, I just want a string of treasures where He and I both know I obeyed. You see, my life and walk with Him is far and away better than I’d ever dreamed of in younger years and that’s because I obeyed often enough.

This is not because I’m sinless or like Jesus but because I understand God. I understand what He does and why and what He won’t do and why. And I imagined or made up NONE of it. But you needn’t take my word for it. Test what I write. But I warn you, no one who walks very closely with God dances around the truth in the fear of man. The fear of God is a minimum requirement.

So I won’t go back and read the posts previous to the above lest I stumble upon the offensive one doing neither of us a favor thereby. I’m not sure there’s more to say in any case. You are likely to offer me the promise of sinlessness and I have already have known vastly superior pleasure of pleasing Him. I’m afraid your offer pales in comparison.

 

[justbyfaith]

Your loss in that you won't read what I have written to you...

I wonder what was the point of our conversation?

Because you seem to not want to carry it out to the end.

Now I apologized to you...but I think that you also owe me an apology in that you accused me of seeking my own righteousness rather than the righteousness of the Lord...that amounted to an accusation of self-righteousness.

I think that you also owe it to me to read my responses to you concerning that.

 

[Hopeful]

Hi,
I'd be very interested in knowing if Hopeful agrees with the above, especially about your definition of sin, based on the example given re your wife's displeasure with you.

He SEEMS to agree with you.

If his wife's displeasure really bothered him he would clean up after himself.
Do unto others...
That being said, he has the interest in living the right kind of life, but doesn't have a pastor.

 

[justbyfaith]

If his wife's displeasure really bothered him he would clean up after himself.
Do unto others...
That being said, he has the interest in living the right kind of life, but doesn't have a pastor.

Her displeasure does indeed bother me.

But the times that I don't, she complains about it.

Here is what Jesus says about your attitude, I think.

Isa 65:5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.

And btw, I do have a pastor.

Where do you get off telling everyone that I don't...since you don't even know me?

I think that you must not be married.

If you were, I know that there would be things in your recent memory wherein your wife has complained about something in you that is displeasing to her.

 

[Marci]

The flip side of those who teach you can overcome all sin is for those who embrace this is to redefine sin so they qualify as sinless. So real sin they commit against God and man is ignored. This has been the case with every single person I’ve met who believe they can be sinless. When Ive asked them if others agree that their behavior is sinless as was the case with Jesus, their answer is essentially it doesn’t matter if others feel/know they were sinned against. The man in the mirror agrees they are sinless.

Years ago before I got saved, I was attending a home bible study. The guy doing the teaching believed he was sinless even though it says in the bible that not one of us is without sin. I don't quite understand how anyone can be that blind. I wasn't even saved yet and I knew better. I do believe some sin can be overcome but, I also feel as though it's a lifelong fight to control it due to our natural sin nature.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Yeah…

I’ve heard that genuine conversion changes our status from dinner to Saint. Following cs Lewis on that…

It must be in some heavenly realm where things are Real…

Here in our fallen world it plays out with sanctification completed by glorification. Only in heaven where we become perfect creatures do we really truly become sinless.