Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[07/07/07]

Anybody who is not seeking after righteousness is simply not a believer for it to matter.

Correct. But, during a certain season of one's life, the person could have been pursuing God's righteousness and holiness by means of the new heart and new Spirit given to them at conversion, i.e., born again. Yet, after enduring for a while, they fell back into the the ways of the old man. Salvation was let go.

 

[justbyfaith]

And yet you denied this when asked about it. That's why I say you are a mess of contradiction.

A person is saved the moment they believe in and receive the gospel message. You do not have to achieve entire outward sanctification to be saved. That is a lie. You serve a false works justification gospel.

You took my words out of context, there.

 

[justbyfaith]

KEPT blameless, not made blameless. You're working to achieve what you already have and which you got the moment you believed.

Consider that blamelessness is in the sight of God, on the inside and on the outside (Ephesians 1:4).

Heb 4:13, Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

The above scripture means that if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, then I am blameless in reality (practicality).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

blameless in reality (practicality).

What in heaven's name does that mean???

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You took my words out of context, there.

We'll see by how you answer the question I just asked above.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We must walk in God's holiness and righteousness to be a Saint worthy of Heaven.

And when you fail there is the forgiveness of God you believe in to keep you without blame before God.

The same forgiveness that made us blameless the moment we first believed is keeping us blameless through our continued believing.

We don't work to get the forgiveness that made us blameless and keeps us blameless before God. We continue to believe in the gospel to get the forgiveness that made us blameless and keeps us blameless before God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you think Jesus felt that way?
He never sinned.
We are now in Him.
Those in Christ are as free from sin as He was.

You know, this reminds me of something I learned many years ago regarding the difference between Protestant Sanctification and Catholic Sanctification . (but that's not what they call it).

Protestants believe they are COVERED by the sacrifice of Jesus.
It's like putting Jesus on.

Romans 13:14
...But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

IOW, what I was taught here is that when God looks at one of us, He doesn't really see us because of sin,
but God sees His Son instead. We are thus, "covered" by Him.

The Catholic idea is that God sees US but He sees a person void of sin due to the confessing of sins when they happen, and the person is thus "cleansed" and proper in God's eyes.

Two very different ideas.

 

[GodsGrace]

So folks could start walking in the light. (1 John 1:7)

Thea above is why Jesus authorized the Apostles to forgive sin?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Care to explain?

If I'm asking God for forgiveness, am I not already walking in the light?
I realize I made a mistake (sinned) and ask forgiveness.

Persons that are NOT walking in the light, do not ask forgiveness because they don't care. (they're still walking in darkness).

 

[GodsGrace]

Don't you feel that after being reborn of God's seed we will have a better nature?

I'd have to say yes.
We have a better nature.
We are turned toward God instead of the evil one.

 

[justbyfaith]

What in heaven's name does that mean???

blameless, not just positionally, or as referring only to the outward appearance.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wow.
Yes.
This is interesting.

I'm so aware of God's perfection and power that I don't know if I could have a flawlessly innocent conscience.

I pray for forgiveness and pray God is merciful.
My belief is that we could know we are born again only at the foot of the cross.

We are children of God but misbehave due to the fact that we cannot be perfect in behavior.
Only by holding tight to the garment of Jesus can we hope to spend eternity with Him.

Not by being perfect.

Hopeful

You gave me a sad face for the above.
I'm not saying we should sin.
I'm saying we cannot be perfect.
I know a few persons that come pretty close....
but no cigar.

 

[justbyfaith]

You took my words out of context, there.

We'll see by how you answer the question I just asked above.

The context:

2 Corinthians 1:15 is an evidentiary text in scripture that there is a second benefit; while I would not classify it as a proof text.

Since the scriptures are inspired, we can sometimes take from them an understanding that supersedes the immediate and cultural context. They are intended to be understood spiritually.

So, in combining 2 Corinthians 1:15 with 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, I determine that entire sanctification is a second benefit that is afforded to the believer who is already justified.

For if it is a first benefit, one might come to the conclusion that 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 is salvation itself and that one cannot be saved apart from being wholly sanctified.

So, you can reject the idea that 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 is a second benefit if you like;

But I say to you truly that now your only option is to believe that it is a first benefit and that it is salvation itself;

And that therefore a man is not saved unless he has been wholly sanctified.

 

[Hopeful]

The authority of the flesh is what has died. It's not a literal death of the flesh...obviously.

Scripture, please.
Rom 8:9..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
I have faith that the death of the old me was literal.
Thanks be to God.

Now, the flesh can only lie to you that it has the authority and power over you that it once did to make you do what it wants.

There is no reasom to ever commit another sin.

 

[Hopeful]

You are misusing the analogy.

In the Parable of the Soil there are other things growing where the word is also planted.

Sure enough, but those other things were not (re)born of the seed planted by the sower.
Seed can only bring forth after itself.
God's seed cannot bring forth liars or thieves.

 

[Hopeful]

It isn't a self declared salvation. The Bible tells us how to know that we are saved.

It's scary how you twist and reject so many plain teachings in the Bible. Truly scary.

What is scary is that so many who still commit sin say they are already saved.
They seem unaware of a day of judgement coming down the road.

 

[Hopeful]

Hopeful

You gave me a sad face for the above.
I'm not saying we should sin.
I'm saying we cannot be perfect.
I know a few persons that come pretty close....
but no cigar.

Are you saying we cannot be sinless?
I hope not !

 

[Hopeful]

You know, this reminds me of something I learned many years ago regarding the difference between Protestant Sanctification and Catholic Sanctification . (but that's not what they call it).

Protestants believe they are COVERED by the sacrifice of Jesus.
It's like putting Jesus on.

Romans 13:14
...But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

IOW, what I was taught here is that when God looks at one of us, He doesn't really see us because of sin,
but God sees His Son instead. We are thus, "covered" by Him.

The Catholic idea is that God sees US but He sees a person void of sin due to the confessing of sins when they happen, and the person is thus "cleansed" and proper in God's eyes.

Two very different ideas.

I call both versions of sanctification the Harry Potter Invisibility Cloak Doctrine.
God knows what is really going on. (Heb 4:13)..."Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."

He won't excuse sin because some man says "You shouldn't have been able to see it !"
How often did the OT Jews say "Where is God?" or "He can't see us inside/through the clouds." (Job 22:14)

 

[Hopeful]

Thea above is why Jesus authorized the Apostles to forgive sin?
Doesn't make any sense to me.
Care to explain?

If I'm asking God for forgiveness, am I not already walking in the light?
I realize I made a mistake (sinned) and ask forgiveness.

Persons that are NOT walking in the light, do not ask forgiveness because they don't care. (they're still walking in darkness).

Are not those who will eventually use Jesus' advocacy (1 John 2:1) still walking in darkness-sin?
Until the darkness-sin is gone, they cannot walk in the light-God.
There is no sin in God !

 

[Hopeful]

I'd have to say yes.
We have a better nature.
We are turned toward God instead of the evil one.

Amen.
PLUS, we have a new nature after being reborn of God's seed.
We have the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We can talk directly with God when we are without sin.
We have the promised escapes from temptation too..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What is scary is that so many who still commit sin say they are already saved.
They seem unaware of a day of judgement coming down the road.

Faith in God's forgiveness is how believers who still sin are already saved and prepared ahead of time to meet God in judgment at the end of the age.

As I've showed you many times, the Bible says we know that we are called and elected by the ever-increasing traits of the Spirit in our life, not by sinless perfection - 2 Peter 1:8-11.