Can you continue to knowingly sin and remain a Christian?

[Jethro Bodine]

Sure enough, but those other things were not (re)born of the seed planted by the sower.

I've been saying that.
Sin does not come from the seed of God within us.
It comes from the flesh that we still have.

What you have to acknowledge is that both the seed of God's word and sin are present in the same soil in the Parable of the Sower. The very thing you claim is impossible.

Seed can only bring forth after itself.
God's seed cannot bring forth liars or thieves.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is no reasom to ever commit another sin.

You are rejecting the seed of God's word:

13...exhort one another daily, as long as it is called today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. Hebrews 3:13

1...let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us. Hebrews 12:1

The deceitfulness of sin is a reason why believers commit sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Heb 4:13, Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

The above scripture means that if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, then I am blameless in reality (practicality).

No, that's not how it works (emphasis in your quote by me).

The moment you and I believed, despite being in our spiritually infantile state, we became instantly blameless in the sight of God because all our transgressions were forgiven. We did not suddenly became blameless, practically and outwardly speaking. We grow up into that. There is no truth whatsoever that "if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, then I am blameless in reality (practicality)."

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no truth whatsoever that "if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, then I am blameless in reality (practicality)."

Except that everything is naked and opened and laid bare before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

So, if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, then He sees that I am blameless; and He sees this clearly apart from looking at me with rose-colored glasses. It is the reality that He sees; for God is not blind.

Therefore, if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, I am blameless in reality (practicality);

no "if's", "and's" or "but's" about it.

That is the bottom line.

As it is written,

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

 

[justbyfaith]

We did not suddenly became blameless, practically and outwardly speaking. We grow up into that.

Sinners Bound to Change Their Own Hearts by Charles G. Finney

www.gospeltruth.net

HOW TO CHANGE YOUR HEART by Charles G. Finney

www.gospeltruth.net

More where that came from:

Complete INDEX OF SERMONS AND LECTURES by Charles G. Finney

www.gospeltruth.net

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Except that everything is naked and opened and laid bare before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

So, if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, then He sees that I am blameless; and He sees this clearly apart from looking at me with rose-colored glasses. It is the reality that He sees; for God is not blind.

Therefore, if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, I am blameless in reality (practicality);

no "if's", "and's" or "but's" about it.

That is the bottom line.

As it is written,

1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Rom 5:19, For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Mat 5:6, Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

No, justbyfaith . The Christian is blameless the moment he receives the forgiveness of God by faith. And he continues to be blameless from that moment forward, even if he sins, because the forgiveness of God continually wipes away the guilt of that sin.

As for this matter of being outwardly and practically blameless - right now while I'm sitting here at my computer I am not committing any sins. I am blameless, practically speaking. And the sins I committed in the past are gone, forgotten by God, with no blame whatsoever, practically or positionally, being held to my account (consequences perhaps, but not blame). But if I do sin later today, because of weakness, or lack of vigilance, or whatever, violating the command to be blameless outwardly, I will be sorry for that sin and I will repent, the blood of Christ will cover the guilt of that sin and I will remain blameless both positionally and practically speaking in the sight of God.

Not being blameless, practically speaking, when you sin does not mean you are not righteous as he is righteous. You are always righteous, not because you don't sin, but because of the forgiveness of God and the giving of God's righteousness to you. That is the righteousness you have and which he always sees by which he has declared you righteous and continues to declare you righteous (as long as you keep believing). The sign that you possess that righteousness is not perfect behavior but rather the ever increasing traits of the Holy Spirit growing in you as God completes the work in you of maturing you to the full measure of Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Therefore, if I am blameless in the sight of the Lord, I am blameless in reality (practicality);

Maybe if you live to a hundred this will be true.

But regardless of how old you are and how long you live, you are ALWAYS blameless in his sight, because of Christ and the Holy Spirit, not because of you. And when you do sin and you are sorry and repent, that is when you are blameless, practically speaking.

That is a roller coaster ride you're going to ride for the rest of your earthly life. Never committing a sin ever again is not the practical righteousness believers live. The next trial or temptation that you successfully get through without sinning, THAT is the practical righteousness of the believer that we are to strive for. Stop looking at practical blamelessness as you never sinning anymore. 'Taint gonna happen unless you live to be a hundred years old and have spent a lifetime of God training and growing you up into the image of Christ through all the trials and temptations and successes and failures of life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The authority of the flesh is what has died. It's not a literal death of the flesh...obviously.

Scripture, please.

The law is what gives authority to the flesh to make us sin:

56...the power of sin is the law. 1 Corinthians 15:56

But we have been released from the law, therefore, the flesh has no more authority to make us sin:

5For when we lived according to the flesh (before we had the Spirit - Romans 8:9), the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, bearing fruit for death. 6But now, having died to what bound us (dead to the flesh by virtue of the Spirit), we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:5-6

The simple fact that the flesh still tempts us shows us that the flesh and it's desires is not literally dead and unable to sin as you contend, but rather it is dead in that it can no longer make us sin by force and authority of the law because we are dead to the flesh by virtue of being new creations by the Holy Spirit.

When we were in the flesh (that is, without the Spirit - Romans 8:9) the flesh was able to prod and push us through the power of the commandment to serve it's sinful desires (Romans 7:5, Romans 7:8). But now that we have died to the flesh by becoming new creations with the Spirit within us (Romans 8:10) the flesh has no more authority through the law to make us sin. The flesh did not die in regard to it's ability to sin. It's authority to make us sin is what died.

 

[07/07/07]

@ Jethro Bodine - I think by conflating a Christian's faults with a Christian who knowingly sins is diluting the message of God's Word. We are to walk in holiness and righteousness, and resist evil and the works of the flesh.

James 1
[14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. - (KJV)

When we give over to sin, it brings forth death — not life everlasting.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

@ Jethro Bodine - I think by conflating a Christian's faults with a Christian who knowingly sins is diluting the message of God's Word.

I agree.

Willfully and deliberately sinning in a 'I don't care about Christ' attitude is the sin of an unbeliever or ex-believer, not a believer. They have no ministry of Jesus and his sacrifice keeping them blameless and growing them up into the image of Christ available to them because they have rejected it in unbelief as evidenced by their careless, wanton sinful life.

The promises are for believers, struggling with the "sin that so easily entangles" (Hebrews 12:1), not for un/ex-believers who do not struggle with sin but openly and unabashedly embrace it in a rejection of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, justbyfaith . The Christian is blameless the moment he receives the forgiveness of God by faith. And he continues to be blameless from that moment forward, even if he sins, because the forgiveness of God continually wipes away the guilt of that sin.

As for this matter of being outwardly and practically blameless - right now while I'm sitting here at my computer I am not committing any sins. I am blameless, practically speaking. And the sins I committed in the past are gone, forgotten by God, with no blame whatsoever, practically or positionally, being held to my account (consequences perhaps, but not blame). But if I do sin later today, because of weakness, or lack of vigilance, or whatever, violating the command to be blameless outwardly, I will be sorry for that sin and I will repent, the blood of Christ will cover the guilt of that sin and I will remain blameless both positionally and practically speaking in the sight of God.

If you do sin later today, and do not repent, will the blood of Christ cover that sin; and will you remain blameless?

I am certainly not arguing against the reality of 1 John 1:9 here.

But I am saying that blamelessness is a reality in the life of a believer in practicality as this is what is borne out to be the teaching of holy scripture.

Not being blameless, practically speaking, when you sin does not mean you are not righteous as he is righteous. You are always righteous, not because you don't sin, but because of the forgiveness of God and the giving of God's righteousness to you. That is the righteousness you have and which he always sees by which he has declared you righteous and continues to declare you righteous (as long as you keep believing). The sign that you possess that righteousness is not perfect behavior but rather the ever increasing traits of the Holy Spirit growing in you as God completes the work in you of maturing you to the full measure of Christ.

The one who does righteousness is righteous even as He is righteous.

Practical righteousness, spoken of in 1 John 3:7, does not come positionally; and it does not come as imputed to you.

There is an imparted righteousness given as a benefit to the believer (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

Maybe if you live to a hundred this will be true.

But regardless of how old you are and how long you live, you are ALWAYS blameless in his sight, because of Christ and the Holy Spirit, not because of you. And when you do sin and you are sorry and repent, that is when you are blameless, practically speaking.

That is a roller coaster ride you're going to ride for the rest of your earthly life. Never committing a sin ever again is not the practical righteousness believers live. The next trial or temptation that you successfully get through without sinning, THAT is the practical righteousness of the believer that we are to strive for. Stop looking at practical blamelessness as you never sinning anymore. 'Taint gonna happen unless you live to be a hundred years old and have spent a lifetime of God training and growing you up into the image of Christ through all the trials and temptations and successes and failures of life.

I am certainly not preaching against the reality of 1 John 1:9.

But I am saying that to be righteous, even as He is righteous, comes about as being a doer of righteousness, according to scripture.

Therefore we can in fact be blameless in the practical sense of the word.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you do sin later today, and do not repent, will the blood of Christ cover that sin; and will you remain blameless?

Yes, as long as I respond to God's discipline when confronted about it. But if I resist and reject his correction, eventually I will be turned over to it as an unbeliever who has chosen not to receive God's grace.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But I am saying that blamelessness is a reality in the life of a believer in practicality as this is what is borne out to be the teaching of holy scripture.

Yes, but you do not have to achieve a record of sinless perfection to be righteous as he is righteous. Growth in ever increasing traits of the Spirit establishes that, not a state of sinless perfection.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Therefore we can in fact be blameless in the practical sense of the word.

Yes, but being blameless does not mean achieving a state of sinless perfection.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, as long as I respond to God's discipline when confronted about it. But if I resist and reject his correction, eventually I will be turned over to it as an unbeliever who has chosen not to receive God's grace.

if a person does not repent he is not blameless before God.

Yes, but you do not have to achieve a record of sinless perfection to be righteous as he is righteous. Growth in ever increasing traits of the Spirit establishes that, not a state of sinless perfection.

Yes; however if I am righteous by faith, it will result in my having a practical righteousness even as He is righteous.

Yes, but being blameless does not mean achieving a state of sinless perfection.

There you go with that misnomer again. No one is "sinlessly perfect" except for Jesus, who never sinned.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Saying that I have sinned is not the same as saying that I must sin in the present or the future.

Saying that I "have no sin" may be the same as saying that "I have not sinned"...if 1 John 1:8 is applicable the same way that Hebrews 4:15 is applicable, then to say that I have no sin may not be to say that I have not indwelling sin...it may be to merely say that I have not sinned.

I have sinned; there is no one who hasn't; except for Christ Himself. Jesus was without sin; and that means, in Hebrews 4:15, that He had never sinned. So, if it means the same in 1 John 1:8, then I can say that I have not indwelling sin and not be deceiving myself, as long as I am admitting that I have sinned.

Colossians 2:11 (especially in the nlt) gives credence to this interpretation; along with the concept that there is no sin in Jesus (1 John 3:5) and that we are in Jesus (1 John 5:20 and other verses).

The other option is that when it says that we have no sin, it is speaking of indwelling sin; which can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it has no authority over my behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12 (kjv, nlt)).

So, in response to your quote, above:

Being blameless does not mean achieving a state of sinless perfection; in that all of us have sinned, and many of us do have indwelling sin.

But it can mean that we are set free from the power of sin so that it is no longer our master; and that means that we can walk in complete victory and freedom over it.

Jhn 8:34, Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If I commit sin (even one time), then I am a slave of sin.

Therefore, to be set free from sin (free indeed) means that I will be set free completely from the practicing of sin (the committing of it, even one time, in the future).

If I am born of God, then I "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

Act 17:30, And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

 

[Jethro Bodine]

if I am righteous by faith, it will result in my having a practical righteousness even as He is righteous.

It will. But it's a gradual process of ever increasing measure of the traits of the Spirit. As long as that's happening a person can be assured that they really are called and elected and will enter into the kingdom at the end of the age.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But it can mean that we are set free from the power of sin so that it is no longer our master; and that means that we can walk in complete victory and freedom over it.

That happened the moment you believed and were saved. You spend the rest of your life learning to stand on that truth more and more when tempted by sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If I commit sin (even one time), then I am a slave of sin.

No, it isn't always that way.
I've indulged various sins that did not result in me instantly becoming a slave to it. Some not even at all!
But then there are those people who did become slaves right away.

Therefore, to be set free from sin (free indeed) means that I will be set free completely from the practicing of sin (the committing of it, even one time, in the future).

No, it doesn't only mean that.

"Done with sin" in 1 Peter 4:1-2 does not have to mean "set free completely from the practicing of sin...even one time".

1...anyone who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2Consequently, he does not live out his remaining time on earth for human passions, but for the will of God. 1 Peter 4:1-2

It can mean you are no longer characterized by the struggle with a particular sin. It does not have to mean you can absolutely never commit that sin again under any circumstances. Maybe if you're a hundred years old it can mean that for you, but that is not what it means, categorically. This same Peter showed us that the end of sin in a person is a progressive thing (2 Peter 1:8 NIV), not a hard and fast defined moment in the Christian's life.

 

[justbyfaith]

That happened the moment you believed and were saved. You spend the rest of your life learning to stand on that truth more and more when tempted by sin.

It means that we do not want to and don't have to sin; and that therefore we cannot sin (1 John 3:9).

 

[justbyfaith]

I've indulged various sins that did not result in me instantly becoming a slave to it.

So, you never committed that particular sin ever again?

No, it doesn't only mean that.

"Done with sin" in 1 Peter 4:1-2 does not have to mean "set free completely from the practicing of sin...even one time".

1...anyone who has suffered in his body is done with sin. 2Consequently, he does not live out his remaining time on earth for human passions, but for the will of God. 1 Peter 4:1-2

It can mean you are no longer characterized by the struggle with a particular sin. It does not have to mean you can absolutely never commit that sin again under any circumstances. Maybe if you're a hundred years old it can mean that for you, but that is not what it means, categorically. This same Peter showed us that the end of sin in a person is a progressive thing (2 Peter 1:8 NIV), not a hard and fast defined moment in the Christian's life.

If you commit that sin again, it is because of the addictive nature of sin.

If you don't want to and don't have to sin, why would you sin?

If we hunger and thirst after righteousness, we will be filled.

That means that we turn away from sin and don't commit it any longer.

That is what repentance is.