Can you lose your salvation?

[TonyChanYT]

The English word "save" or "salvation" has a wide range of meanings:

1. It could mean being physically rescued at a point in time situation (Exodus 14:13, H3444, יְשׁוּעָה yeshuah). In this case, you may need to be rescued again. You can be rescued or saved multiple times. The only places in the OT where yeshuah is used unambiguously as saving people from sins are in Eze 36:29 and 37:23.

2. It could mean being accepted officially by a certain church/denomination. When you lose your membership, you lose this salvation.

3. It could describe a shallow Christian who is a Christian in name only (1 John 2:19). He looks like a Christian and talks like a Christian. Instead of serving God, he wants God to serve him. After a while, he goes away because he no longer finds God useful.

4. It could describe a serious Christian. He thinks he is in the faith (2Co 13:5, Col 1:23) and performs Christian works sincerely for years but departs from the faith eventually (1 Tim 4:1).

5. It could mean that your name is written in the Book of Life. Later, God may erase or at least threaten to erase that name and you may lose this type of salvation, Ex 32:32, Rev 3:5.

6. Finally, it could mean being saved from the physical now onto eternity. In this case, it requires the Paraclete to dwell in you presently. You cannot lose the Paraclete in you. This is the concept of being born of the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The word "save" or "salvation" is polysemantic. Depending on your definition of salvation, you can definitely lose your salvation.

The question that one should ask is not "Once saved, always saved?". The better question is whether you have the Paraclete Indwelling Spirit in you.

Can you lose your salvation?

Yes, in many many ways: John 15:2, Romans 11:22, Hebrews 6:4, 1 Corinthians 15:2.

Can you lose your Paraclete?

No, I don't think so. The Paraclete does what he does. He chooses to dwell in a person by making a direct connection with the person's human spirit permanently.

 

[for_his_glory]

You can be rescued or saved multiple times.

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

By quoting these scriptures if one is truly Spiritually born again and indwelled with the Holy Spirit they are not going to have to be saved multiple times, as that would put the sacrifice of Christ to shame. Our flesh will always sin as that is a fact, but when we are Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit we have died to self and now live for Christ as we need to be walking in the Spirit, Galatians 5:16-26. We also know that none of us are perfect, but striving for that perfection that is in Christ. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries, Hebrews 10:26-27.

2. It could mean being accepted officially by a certain church/denomination. When you lose your membership, you lose this salvation.

We need not be concerned about being accepted by a certain church whether it be denominational or non-denominational, but be more concerned we are accepted by Christ. There is only one true Church and that is the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, 1 Corinthians 12:12-14

Can you lose your salvation?

Let's go back to Hebrews 6:1-8 for that answer as by those scriptures one can not lose their salvation. They are Christ own and nothing can separate them from the love of God, Romans 8:38-39. But, there are many having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away as they are none of His own, 2Timothy 3:5-7.

BTW, since you are new here the subject of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is banned from CF for the controversy and division it causes between the members.

 

[JLB]

The English word "save" or "salvation" has a wide range of meanings:

1. It could mean being physically rescued at a point in time situation (Exodus 14:13, H3444, יְשׁוּעָה yeshuah). In this case, you may need to be rescued again. You can be rescued or saved multiple times. The only places in the OT where yeshuah is used unambiguously as saving people from sins are in Eze 36:29 and 37:23.

2. It could mean being accepted officially by a certain church/denomination. When you lose your membership, you lose this salvation.

3. It could describe a shallow Christian who is a Christian in name only (1 John 2:19). He looks like a Christian and talks like a Christian. Instead of serving God, he wants God to serve him. After a while, he goes away because he no longer finds God useful.

4. It could describe a serious Christian. He thinks he is in the faith (2Co 13:5, Col 1:23) and performs Christian works sincerely for years but departs from the faith eventually (1 Tim 4:1).

5. It could mean that your name is written in the Book of Life. Later, God may erase or at least threaten to erase that name and you may lose this type of salvation, Ex 32:32, Rev 3:5.

6. Finally, it could mean being saved from the physical now onto eternity. In this case, it requires the Paraclete to dwell in you presently. You cannot lose the Paraclete in you. This is the concept of being born of the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The word "save" or "salvation" is polysemantic. Depending on your definition of salvation, you can definitely lose your salvation.

The question that one should ask is not "Once saved, always saved?". The better question is whether you have the Paraclete Indwelling Spirit in you.

Can you lose your salvation?

Yes, in many many ways: John 15:2, Romans 11:22, Hebrews 6:4, 1 Corinthians 15:2.

Can you lose your Paraclete?

No, I don't think so. The Paraclete does what he does. He chooses to dwell in a person by making a direct connection with the person's human spirit permanently.

So you believe one of His sheep can never become lost?

 

[Who Me]

Can you lose your salvation?

Who is it that saves? is it man or God.
Who decides who will be saved?

It boils down to how one views God, if one believes he is in control then he chooses, he saves and he preserves his chosen people.
Yes some will be saved, saved with nothing to show their saviour.

 

[gordon777]

Two quick things to answer.


Do we sin, do we believe in imperfection ? Yes people sin because they believe in imperfection, and therefore commit imperfection.


Can they lose the salvation they do not have ? NO, that is why they say they cant lose.



Can salvation be obtained by hearing a world of corruption?



I wont answer that, as it answers already the question, of can you lose your salvation. ( it is asked in the wrong places.)

 

[gordon777]

But, just for the sake of it, I will place a few verses of belief in perfection. ( which is belief in love/God.)



Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Colossians 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.


1 John 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.


1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.


1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[TonyChanYT]

So you believe one of His sheep can never become lost?

No.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Yes some will be saved, saved with nothing to show their saviour.

Please elaborate. Note the boldface. Thanks

 

[hawkman]

BTW, since you are new here the subject of Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) is banned from CF for the controversy and division it causes between the members.

I Can't find that in TOS . Are banned topics listed somewhere ?

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
"So you believe one of His sheep can never become lost?" Quote from JLB

Yes, if lost means unable to return.

Was the prodigal son still the man's son? Did the father watch for the son to return? Did the father run to meet the son? Did he embrace the son? Sorry for the verboseness, but I use it to make this point.

Lost does not equal disowned.

The son always knew the way home. (For him it took eating pig slop to remind him. But he knew.)
I know I sound like a broken record. But God makes the way straight and narrow for a reason.

In the parable of the lost sheep, the sheep was lost. (Duh, its in the name.) Did the shepherd just go, "Oh well,lost another one." Or did he go and look for the sheep, find it, and bring it back to the sheepfold.

God is active in our lives whether we are walking with Him step for step or have gone astray. Because He never stops being our Father.
Keep walking everybody. May God bless,
Taz

 

[for_his_glory]

I Can't find that in TOS . Are banned topics listed somewhere ?

here is where it is found in the sticky's in Theology forum.

OSAS vx OSNAS

This subject of OSAS is no longer allowed to be argued, debated or even discussed. Since way too many rescources are being used by this one subject we have to cut it off completely. Too many people are losing their composure when discussing this topic. So in the interest of all, any debate of...

christianforums.net

 

[Josef]

Did I break a rule here? I was coming from a still saved but backslidden condition. Hence using the prodigal son parable. And I am not having an argument here. Is what I did considered breaking the rules?
Keep walking everybody. May God,
Taz

 

[donadams]

The English word "save" or "salvation" has a wide range of meanings:

1. It could mean being physically rescued at a point in time situation (Exodus 14:13, H3444, יְשׁוּעָה yeshuah). In this case, you may need to be rescued again. You can be rescued or saved multiple times. The only places in the OT where yeshuah is used unambiguously as saving people from sins are in Eze 36:29 and 37:23.

2. It could mean being accepted officially by a certain church/denomination. When you lose your membership, you lose this salvation.

3. It could describe a shallow Christian who is a Christian in name only (1 John 2:19). He looks like a Christian and talks like a Christian. Instead of serving God, he wants God to serve him. After a while, he goes away because he no longer finds God useful.

4. It could describe a serious Christian. He thinks he is in the faith (2Co 13:5, Col 1:23) and performs Christian works sincerely for years but departs from the faith eventually (1 Tim 4:1).

5. It could mean that your name is written in the Book of Life. Later, God may erase or at least threaten to erase that name and you may lose this type of salvation, Ex 32:32, Rev 3:5.

6. Finally, it could mean being saved from the physical now onto eternity. In this case, it requires the Paraclete to dwell in you presently. You cannot lose the Paraclete in you. This is the concept of being born of the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

The word "save" or "salvation" is polysemantic. Depending on your definition of salvation, you can definitely lose your salvation.

The question that one should ask is not "Once saved, always saved?". The better question is whether you have the Paraclete Indwelling Spirit in you.

Can you lose your salvation?

Yes, in many many ways: John 15:2, Romans 11:22, Hebrews 6:4, 1 Corinthians 15:2.

Can you lose your Paraclete?

No, I don't think so. The Paraclete does what he does. He chooses to dwell in a person by making a direct connection with the person's human spirit permanently.

The sin unto death means separation from God, lose of the life of the spirit!

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a reminder that CF no longer allows discussions on OSAS vs OSNAS. All post will be deleted on this subject. If continued that member will be banned from this thread. Thank you.

OSAS vx OSNAS

This subject of OSAS is no longer allowed to be argued, debated or even discussed. Since way too many rescources are being used by this one subject we have to cut it off completely. Too many people are losing their composure when discussing this topic. So in the interest of all, any debate of...

christianforums.net

 

[for_his_glory]

Did I break a rule here? I was coming from a still saved but backslidden condition. Hence using the prodigal son parable. And I am not having an argument here. Is what I did considered breaking the rules?
Keep walking everybody. May God,
Taz

You are fine in what you said about the Prodigal son.

 

[gordon777]

First of all you have to do all to stand, secondly you have to believing in giving your life, not seeking for it. ( the whole world right now, as anyone can read below, seeks for itself.)


Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[JLB]

No.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

• Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’

JLB

 

[Who Me]

Please elaborate. Note the boldface. Thanks

1 corinthians 3:12-15

 

[donadams]

We were told not to discuss these subjects, I for one will obey!

Obedience is one of the virtues of Jesus Christ!

 

[Tenchi]

The English word "save" or "salvation" has a wide range of meanings:
....
2. It could mean being accepted officially by a certain church/denomination. When you lose your membership, you lose this salvation.

There is no biblical ground, of course, for this notion of "salvation." The Church does not save but is the family of those who are saved. A denomination has no salvific power, either; there being no scriptural ground whatever for such an idea. I'm not saying you've asserted otherwise, only pointing out that there is salvation in no other but Christ.

3. It could describe a shallow Christian who is a Christian in name only (1 John 2:19). He looks like a Christian and talks like a Christian. Instead of serving God, he wants God to serve him. After a while, he goes away because he no longer finds God useful.

1 John 2:19 doesn't speak of salvation, though, but of those who reveal by their departure from the Christian community that they "were not of us." I'm not sure, then, what sort of definition of salvation you're trying to derive from the verse... John only described the nominal Christian, the false convert described in Hebrews 6:4-8.

4. It could describe a serious Christian. He thinks he is in the faith (2Co 13:5, Col 1:23) and performs Christian works sincerely for years but departs from the faith eventually (1 Tim 4:1).

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test.

I don't see a definition of salvation given in these verses... Paul says only that there is a means of testing whether one is truly in the faith or not, but he doesn't describe what salvation itself is in this couplet of verses.

Colossians 1:21-23
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.
Upon what are all the benefits and blessings of the Christian life predicated? Upon what is the believer's fellowship with God anchored? Faith (2 Corinthians 5:7; Hebrews 4:2; Hebrews 11:6). The only way to enter fully and deeply into the "abundant life" that God offers to us in Jesus Christ (John 10:9-11) is to do so by faith. But, again, there is no definition of salvation offered in this passage, only a promise and a warning.

1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

As the apostle John pointed out, "They went out from us because they were not of us." The Early Church had "false brethren" in it, as Paul indicated (2 Corinthians 11:26; Galatians 2:4), folk who either mistakenly thought they were in the faith (Matthew 7:21-23), or wolves in sheeps' clothing who had no interest in Christ but were keenly interested in making merchandise of the Christian community (2 Peter 2:3; Acts 20:28-30). It is no surprise, then, to read of some "departing from the faith." It may have been, though, that they did so, not by leaving the community of believers, but simply by adopting false teachings of "deceitful spirits and demons" while remaining within the Church community. Think: the "Judaizers" of the letter to the Galatians, for example. In any case, Paul's remarks to Timothy in the verse above don't necessarily describe a genuinely-saved person losing their salvation, nor do they define salvation itself.

5. It could mean that your name is written in the Book of Life. Later, God may erase or at least threaten to erase that name and you may lose this type of salvation, Ex 32:32, Rev 3:5.

Revelation 3:5
5 The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

On what basis does any person "conquer" in the sense meant in this verse? By the power of the Holy Spirit. If one is not "conquering" spiritually, one is either not saved, or has allowed sin to interfere with walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5:16; 25). In either case, the verse above offers a promise, not a warning: Those who "conquer" - that is, who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit - will never be blotted out of the Book of Life. Such people Christ will confess before the Father and the angels. This verse from John's Revelation seems to me, then, to secure the idea of the eternal security of the born-again person, not dissolve it. Here, too, though, I don't see a proper description of salvation, only a common proof-text for those promoting the fear-mongering idea of works-salvation (which isn't necessarily what you're doing, though).

6. Finally, it could mean being saved from the physical now onto eternity. In this case, it requires the Paraclete to dwell in you presently. You cannot lose the Paraclete in you. This is the concept of being born of the Spirit. 1 Peter 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

Amen. Hebrews 13:5, Romans 8:31-39, John 10:27-29.

The word "save" or "salvation" is polysemantic. Depending on your definition of salvation, you can definitely lose your salvation.

I don't think you've actually shown this - at least, not from Scripture.

The question that one should ask is not "Once saved, always saved?". The better question is whether you have the Paraclete Indwelling Spirit in you.

As one who subscribes to OSAS, these are, in my view, essentially one-and-the-same thing.

Can you lose your salvation?

Nope. My salvation is not my doing, but God's. He has saved me and what He has done I cannot undo.