Conception and Birth of Believers

[FreeGrace]

So basically you're saying because Adam doesn't have eternal life, he doesn't have God's life in him.

Didn't you read all of my post? God's life IS eternal life. And He gives this life only to believers. 1 Jn 5:13

To me, all life, eternal or temporal comes from God. God is Life.

And I have already agreed. But God giving life isn't the same as God giving His life. His life is eternal and He gives that life ONLY to those who believe in Christ.

Human life is not God's life. Which seems to be your position. You've not demonstrated that from Scripture.

Of course it makes no sense since here you speak of the Christ when I'm speaking about before Christ came. Read above, you acknowledge what I'm talking about above when speaking about God breathing Life into Adam.

God did not breathe eternal life into Adam. He breathed in him human life. Not His own life.

It says the Word of God lights every man. John 1:9 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
This word for life in Greek is zoe.
Outline of Biblical Usage

1. life
   1. the state of one who is possessed of vitality or is animate
   2. every living soul

The phrase "lights every man", or "gives light to every man" means that the truth (Light) is available to everyone.

Again, God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all. 1 Jn 1:5 Light and Truth are synonymous.

I'm referring to "the Word" and the "Word made flesh?". Two different froms of the same person. The Word is the power of creation according to John 1:3. This power of creation created man, and is what gives him life and light John 1:4. The word which is the power of creation was made flesh, John 1:14. So you see I am not talking about the Christ, I am talking about before the Word became the Christ.

No, the Word didn't "become" the Christ. The Word IS the Christ. I believe you are misunderstanding Scripture.

The Word is the same person as the Christ before he came as the Christ, and he has always been the light of man from the creation. After the fall, he came in the flesh to renew man. Consequently, he says Before Abraham was, I am.

What??! Renew man?? Where do you get that? He came to save sinners. 1 Tim 1:15

No, God didn't give guidelines how to Love one another. For He is Love.

I refer you to John 13. Where love is defined. That is how one loves another.

 

[FreeGrace]

From an Eternal view both are correct.

That is totally contradictory.

Christ is judgment.

No, Christ is Savior, not judge. Jn 3:17 - “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

God knows those who Love the Light will choose Jesus, and those who Love the darkness will not choose Jesus.

This speaks to God's omniscience and is irrelevant to the issue of whether God chooses who will believe or not.

Consequently the choice is predetermined yet each man chooses according to his own will.

Of course God knows everything, because He is omniscient. So from His omniscience, He has always known exactly what will occur. So in that sense, everything is predetermined. But that doesn't mean that God is doing the determining, which is the view of Calvinism. God knows what will happen but isn't the cause of all that happens.

God does teach directly and even guides directly.

He reveals Truth through creation (Rom 1:18-20) and through His Son (Jn 14:6).

The Spirit of Christ is a living Spirit in every true believer. That does not mean he doesn't use people to teach.

Which was my point. He uses preachers and teachers to teach human beings. Which you have forsaken, per your own testimony.

Personally, I have never been taught by anyone other than the Holy Spirit. That does not mean I discount anyone from being able to add to me.

I provided Scripture that refutes your view. There is nothing more to say.

Christ is really rather simple.

I suppose this is one of the most naive statements I've heard in a long time.

The commandments to Love God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself are the directives. Walking in the Spirit of Love is what fulfills them.

Please explain how one walks in the Spirit. Specifically. From Scripture. Since it's all so simple according to you.

Even a child could know that.

More naivety.

Yes I am.

Since you claim to be aware of Heb 10:25, why don't you assemble yourself together with other believers under the leadership of a pastor for edification?

It is not audible in my outward ears.

Then how do you hear it?

I have told you that I was brought up Roman Catholic. I left that congregation because the doctrine was contrary to what I was being taught by the Holy Spirit. I spoke with many priests and teachers about it for years. They could not help me resolve the issues. I could tell you many stories about that. I joined a small church where I devoted my time and money, only to be disillusioned when differences in doctrine began to appear. I could not of good conscious follow where the Pastor wanted to lead. I think I joined three different congregations and they all turned out the same. All three of those congregations went belly up after I had left them. I don't need teaching so much as I need fellowship. Which is why I am here on this Forum.

Actually, all believers require teaching as much as fellowship. It is the method God has provided for edification (spiritual growth). I have no idea what kind of denomination you were involved with, but to discount all pastors based on 3 apparent losers isn't exactly logical.

The problem is that seminaries aren't doing a good job of training pastors. But that doesn't eliminate the need for them.

So, if you wish to, please tell me in what "direction" those 3 pastors wanted to lead you?

 

[childeye]

Didn't you read all of my post? God's life IS eternal life. And He gives this life only to believers. 1 Jn 5:13

I read your post. I already know God exists Eternal.

And I have already agreed. But God giving life isn't the same as God giving His life. His life is eternal and He gives that life ONLY to those who believe in Christ.

So if you agree, what's the issue? We're talking past one another again because I agree God is Eternal and Eternal Life is through Jesus.

Human life is not God's life. Which seems to be your position. You've not demonstrated that from Scripture.

This is silly. You've already agreed with my position above. I have demonstrated from scripture. John 1:4 and John 1:9.

God did not breathe eternal life into Adam. He breathed in him human life.

Adam is human because his body is made out of earth. The Spirit of Life is God's.

The phrase "lights every man", or "gives light to every man" means that the truth (Light) is available to everyone.

Yes Truth is given to each and every living man, and this Truth is the Word of God in each and every man that has ever come into the world. John 1:9.

Again, God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all. 1 Jn 1:5 Light and Truth are synonymous.

Agreed.

No, the Word didn't "become" the Christ. The Word IS the Christ. I believe you are misunderstanding Scripture.

I think we're talking past one another again. When I say the Word became the Christ, I'm saying the Word was made flesh. John 1:14. Hebrews 2:14. Christ means the true Image of God sent by God.

What??! Renew man?? Where do you get that? He came to save sinners. 1 Tim 1:15

True, he came to save sinners. He came to save sinners by renewing their minds with the True Image of God. Ephesians 4:23. Colossians 3:10. Titus 3:5.
Because mankind has become corrupt through false imagery of god. And that Light and Life that is God is therefore corrupted through false imagery of god. Romans 1:21-24.

 

[FreeGrace]

I read your post. I already know God exists Eternal.
…..
So if you agree, what's the issue? We're talking past one another again because I agree God is Eternal and Eternal Life is through Jesus.
…...
This is silly. You've already agreed with my position above. I have demonstrated from scripture. John 1:4 and John 1:9.

Your claim is that humanity has God's life in them. I disagree with that. And you haven't substantiated your claim from Scripture.

Adam is human because his body is made out of earth. The Spirit of Life is God's.

Where in Scripture do you find "the Spirit of Life"?

Yes Truth is given to each and every living man, and this Truth is the Word of God in each and every man that has ever come into the world. John 1:9.

That verse does NOT say that. The truth, being the Word of God is NOT in each and every man.

When I say the Word became the Christ, I'm saying the Word was made flesh. John 1:14. Hebrews 2:14.

The Word is the second Member of the Trinity, God the Son.

Christ means the true Image of God sent by God.

The Greek word for "Christ" is the equivalent of the Hebrew word "Messiah", and means "the Annointed One".

True, he came to save sinners. He came to save sinners by renewing their minds with the True Image of God. Ephesians 4:23. Colossians 3:10. Titus 3:5.

Not any of these verses speak of salvation as a "renewing the minds with the true image of God. Where in the world do you get this idea? It is not from the Bible.

In fact, Paul commanded believers to "renew their minds" in Rom 12:2. His audience were saved people. So your idea of "renewing the mind" is not Scriptural.

Because mankind has become corrupt through false imagery of god. And that Light and Life that is God is therefore corrupted through false imagery of god. Romans 1:21-24.

Again, where do you get this idea that man became corruped through this so-called false imagery of god"? Not from the Bible, for sure.

Mankind became corrupted because Adam sinned against God's single negative command: do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

So, whatever that tree represents or symbolizes, it sure wasn't about a false image of god.

 

[childeye]

Your claim is that humanity has God's life in them. I disagree with that. And you haven't substantiated your claim from Scripture.

I did, John 1:9.

Where in Scripture do you find "the Spirit of Life"?

Revelation 11:11.

That verse does NOT say that. The truth, being the Word of God is NOT in each and every man.

John 1:9King James Version (KJV)
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. That's what it says.

The Word is the second Member of the Trinity, God the Son.

True.

The Greek word for "Christ" is the equivalent of the Hebrew word "Messiah", and means "the Annointed One".

Yes and the anointed one means the True Image of God sent by God. True light from True Light.

Not any of these verses speak of salvation as a "renewing the minds with the true image of God. Where in the world do you get this idea? It is not from the Bible.

It says it right here in the scripture I provided.
Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Ephesians 4:22-24.
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

In fact, Paul commanded believers to "renew their minds" in Rom 12:2. His audience were saved people. So your idea of "renewing the mind" is not Scriptural.

Sorry, scripture doesn't say that. Paul is not commanding people to renew their minds. The mind is renewed through the True Image of God. The only way a person renews their mind is through the knowledge of God which is the knowing of His person and Character.

Again, where do you get this idea that man became corruped through this so-called false imagery of god"? Not from the Bible, for sure.

Yet here is scripture.
Exodus 32:6-8King James Version (KJV)
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:16King James Version (KJV)
16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

Mankind became corrupted because Adam sinned against God's single negative command: do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

We've been here before. Mankind accepted a false image of god from Satan which led to his disobedience.

 

[gr8grace3]

I'm not sure what you are saying here. But what I am confident it means is, the just man shall live by faith because only a just man would believe in the image of God sent by God. While unjust men would not. There is judgment going on here. Consequently, belief is determined upon that criteria. Hence, "he who is of God hears God's words", John 8:19, John 8:37, John 8:47.

For Jesus was innocent and without sin. To crucify this man on the cross is not justice in the sense that the innocent should not be punished for the wicked. So what does the just man see that is the righteousness of God on the cross? The forgiving of those who would scourge and mock him, and then crucify him for speaking the Truth, "because they know not what they do". Luke 23:34. Acts 7:59-60. And this is the Divine Love on display on the cross, the righteousness of God. And if any man believe this is the True Image of God that would sacrifice Himself to save those lesser than Himself, he is a just man. And if many man thinks it is foolish of Jesus to pray for these that crucify him, they condemn themselves as willfully wicked because they obviously think that all men are. Consequently, I don't like Free will theology even for the very same reason that I believe in the Divine Love.

Not everyone understands that this is what is on display. I was brought up Roman Catholic and went to church every Sunday. I learned all about Jesus in classrooms for years and yet never saw it.

Love is the motivation of Grace, Justice is the function of Grace. When God saves a man, His love cannot compromise or violate His divine integrity or essence/righteousness. Rom 1:17.....In salvation Gods righteousness is revealed,His Justice.His love sent His Son, His Justice put His Son on the cross.

Righteousness has norms and standards that have to be followed EXACTLY.

Take a renter for example. The landlord loves you, but He is Perfectly righteous in His dealings with the rent. If out of his love for you he gave you an extra month to make the rent, His love for you would violate His perfect righteousness. Gods love for mankind cannot violate His perfect righteousness.

Jesus Christ satisfied Gods Justice for the payment of sin on the Cross,therefore we go to the Cross. And belief is the way we adjust to His Justice and receive His grace.

Keep in mind, PERFECT righteousness cannot be compromised. If God tells us that we have to believe in His Son for salvation, it has to be equal opportunity for ALL. If God didn't allow just 1 person the opportunity to believe or saved a person through His sovereignty His perfect norms and standards would be violated or compromised.

Acts 16:31~~believe and be saved.

Rom 1:17~~salvation reveals His Perfect righteousness.

Psalm 9:8~~He will judge the peoples with equity/fairness/ on the level/straightness......righteousness

1.If God didn't allow a person to believe......He would be unjust and perfect righteousness would be compromised
2. If God caused a person to believe and let another die in unbelief.....He would be unjust and perfect righteousness would be compromised.
3. If God saved a person through His sovereignty and not another.....He would be unjust and perfect righteousness would be compromised.
If Love was the attribute that saved men and not His Justice,all men would be saved.

 

[childeye]

That is totally contradictory.

Yes it appears that way, but it isn't.

No, Christ is Savior, not judge. Jn 3:17 - “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

I didn't say Jesus came to judge. I said he is judgment. There's a difference. For Jesus says if you are not for me you're against me.

This speaks to God's omniscience and is irrelevant to the issue of whether God chooses who will believe or not.

Your missing the point. I'm talking about semantics in human language not omniscience.

Of course God knows everything, because He is omniscient. So from His omniscience, He has always known exactly what will occur. So in that sense, everything is predetermined. But that doesn't mean that God is doing the determining, which is the view of Calvinism. God knows what will happen but isn't the cause of all that happens.

Okay so you get it. I'm glad to read this. You should let go of your disdain for Calvin since it is probably more an issue of semantics than any actual disagreement.

He reveals Truth through creation (Rom 1:18-20) and through His Son (Jn 14:6).

True.

Which was my point. He uses preachers and teachers to teach human beings. Which you have forsaken, per your own testimony.

That's not my testimony. My testimony is that God did it.

I provided Scripture that refutes your view. There is nothing more to say.

There is no scripture that calls me a liar because the Holy Spirit taught me. Everything I know is based on the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit that witnesses to the Father and the Son.

Please explain how one walks in the Spirit. Specifically. From Scripture. Since it's all so simple according to you.

Sure. Love one another. 1 John 4:12

Since you claim to be aware of Heb 10:25, why don't you assemble yourself together with other believers under the leadership of a pastor for edification?

I've already told you. I have yet to see and edification. All I've seen is politicization.

Then how do you hear it?

I hear a voice that is as if it is my own voice within myself talking back to me. For example: My wife and I are driving down the highway and we see a van pulled over and people standing on the other side. As I pass by I say out loud to my wife, "I wonder what's going on there?" She doesn't answer, but I hear this voice and it says to me, "These people have a flat tire but no jack and they are praying for someone to bring them a jack". So I say to my wife, "I just heard a voice saying that these people have a flat tire and they are praying for someone to bring them a jack". So my wife looks at me and says, "I heard the same thing". So I get off the highway, get back on going the other way, get off and back on and pull up behind these people. As I get out and walk toward these people, I say, "God told me you all were praying for somebody to bring you a jack." They begin jumping up and down with joy yelling praises to God. True story.

 

[Gregg]

I hear a voice that is as if it is my own voice within myself talking back to me. For example: My wife and I are driving down the highway and we see a van pulled over and people standing on the other side. As I pass by I say out loud to my wife, "I wonder what's going on there?" She doesn't answer, but I hear this voice and it says to me, "These people have a flat tire but no jack and they are praying for someone to bring them a jack". So I say to my wife, "I just heard a voice saying that these people have a flat tire and they are praying for someone to bring them a jack". So my wife looks at me and says, "I heard the same thing". So I get off the highway, get back on going the other way, get off and back on and pull up behind these people. As I get out and walk toward these people, I say, "God told me you all were praying for somebody to bring you a jack." They begin jumping up and down with joy yelling praises to God. True story.

Thank you for sharing that story. I hope that the LORD leads you to a fellowship where you and they can minister to each other.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
Your claim is that humanity has God's life in them. I disagree with that. And you haven't substantiated your claim from Scripture.

I did, John 1:9.

It doesn't.

Revelation 11:11.

"But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them."

Does this verse say that the breath of life is God's life? No.

John 1:9King James Version (KJV)
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. That's what it says.

But since not every man is lighted, your understanding of the verse needs correction.

Yes and the anointed one means the True Image of God sent by God. True light from True Light.

Please support your idea from a source.

It says it right here in the scripture I provided.
Colossians 3:10
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Ephesians 4:22-24.
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Sorry, scripture doesn't say that. Paul is not commanding people to renew their minds. The mind is renewed through the True Image of God. The only way a person renews their mind is through the knowledge of God which is the knowing of His person and Character.


Yet here is scripture.
Exodus 32:6-8King James Version (KJV)
6 And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.
7 And the Lord said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 4:16King James Version (KJV)
16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

We've been here before. Mankind accepted a false image of god from Satan which led to his disobedience.

All you've done is cobble some verses together with key words to support your view.

Adam disobeyed God's command to not eat of the tree. There was nothing about a false image of god involved. You still have not shown otherwise. These verses included.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
That is totally contradictory.

Yes it appears that way, but it isn't.

It appears that way because it is contradictory.

I didn't say Jesus came to judge. I said he is judgment. There's a difference.

Unless you explain yourself, I'm not buying it.

For Jesus says if you are not for me you're against me.

This isn't a judgment statement. It's a discerning statement.

Okay so you get it. I'm glad to read this. You should let go of your disdain for Calvin since it is probably more an issue of semantics than any actual disagreement.

I have no disdain for him. I just happen to disagree with much of what is attributed to him.

There is no scripture that calls me a liar because the Holy Spirit taught me. Everything I know is based on the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit that witnesses to the Father and the Son.

You've already acknowledged that you don't avail yourself to teaching under the authority of a pastor, which is God's method for believers learning His Word. I've already given the verses.

I hear a voice that is as if it is my own voice within myself talking back to me. For example: My wife and I are driving down the highway and we see a van pulled over and people standing on the other side. As I pass by I say out loud to my wife, "I wonder what's going on there?" She doesn't answer, but I hear this voice and it says to me, "These people have a flat tire but no jack and they are praying for someone to bring them a jack". So I say to my wife, "I just heard a voice saying that these people have a flat tire and they are praying for someone to bring them a jack". So my wife looks at me and says, "I heard the same thing". So I get off the highway, get back on going the other way, get off and back on and pull up behind these people. As I get out and walk toward these people, I say, "God told me you all were praying for somebody to bring you a jack." They begin jumping up and down with joy yelling praises to God. True story.

And that isn't how God teaches believers. The Holy Spirit didn't give out the gift of pastor-teacher for nothing. Or just for kicks. There is a reason for that gift. But you seem to think you can side step.

 

[childeye]

Love is the motivation of Grace, Justice is the function of Grace. When God saves a man, His love cannot compromise or violate His divine integrity or essence/righteousness. Rom 1:17.....In salvation Gods righteousness is revealed,His Justice.His love sent His Son, His Justice put His Son on the cross.

Justice is the function of grace? I believe His grace is mercy. Justice is, the merciful shall receive mercy, and also judge not lest you be judged.
Here's who put His son on the cross. Please read in order: Revelation 12:4. Matthew 2:13. Matthew 16:21.Matthew 26:4.Luke 22:3. Matthew 21: 39.

Righteousness has norms and standards that have to be followed EXACTLY.

Take a renter for example. The landlord loves you, but He is Perfectly righteous in His dealings with the rent. If out of his love for you he gave you an extra month to make the rent, His love for you would violate His perfect righteousness. Gods love for mankind cannot violate His perfect righteousness.

To me, this is not righteousness. This is cold heartedness. If this Landlord loved the renters, he should let them stay there for free, if he was able to afford it and they could not. God is not a landlord keeping tit for tat. God is a loving Father to Whom we owe our life to, and Who would die for us..

Jesus Christ satisfied Gods Justice for the payment of sin on the Cross, therefore we go to the Cross. And belief is the way we adjust to His Justice and receive His grace.

I was walking in despair because I hated myself and my burden of sin was great. Such was my misery that my only comfort, was there were others with burdens greater than my own, and I loathed myself all the more. Then a man came to me holding a cup filled with the blood of the son of God. And this blood had been shed through great and brutal torture. And the man said, drink from this cup and you will be renewed and live forever. And I saw judgment at that cup. For if this son of God suffered torture and death so that I might be spared from a cruel and merciless prosecutor, I'd better drink from it so that his suffering will not have been in vain. But if it is so as to escape the righteous judgment that I have coming to me, I would rather die in my sins than be willing to harm one hair on his precious head.

 

[gr8grace3]

Justice is the function of grace? I believe His grace is mercy. Justice is, the merciful shall receive mercy, and also judge not lest you be judged.

we are getting there! Love is the motive of Grace, justice is the function of Grace and mercy is grace in action. And it is Acts 16:31~~ those who believe will be saved. perfect justice or righteousness can't save a soul one way and differently for another soul. Why do you suppose we have unbelievers going to the LoF?

Here's who put His son on the cross. Please read in order: Revelation 12:4. Matthew 2:13. Matthew 16:21.Matthew 26:4.Luke 22:3. Matthew 21: 39.

Isa 53:10~~New American Standard Bible
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

John 10:17~~New American Standard Bible
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

To me, this is not righteousness. This is cold heartedness. If this Landlord loved the renters, he should let them stay there for free, if he was able to afford it and they could not. God is not a landlord keeping tit for tat. God is a loving Father to Whom we owe our life to, and Who would die for us..

Do you believe everybody will saved?

I was walking in despair because I hated myself and my burden of sin was great. Such was my misery that my only comfort, was there were others with burdens greater than my own, and I loathed myself all the more.

I can assure you that this was your emotion and in actuality you were in sin thinking this way.
This is what the Holy Spirit convicts us of......John 16:8-9~~8“And He( holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Then a man came to me holding a cup filled with the blood of the son of God. And this blood had been shed through great and brutal torture. And the man said, drink from this cup and you will be renewed and live forever. And I saw judgment at that cup. For if this son of God suffered torture and death so that I might be spared from a cruel and merciless prosecutor, I'd better drink from it so that his suffering will not have been in vain. But if it is so as to escape the righteous judgment that I have coming to me, I would rather die in my sins than be willing to harm one hair on his precious head.

What? You drank blood? Where did it come from? What verse says we are to drink blood,coming from some man to be saved?

A cruel and merciless prosecutor? Do you mean God? God is a just and righteous Judge.
Psalm 9:8~~New International Version
He rules the world in righteousness and judges the peoples with equity.
New Living Translation
He will judge the world with justice and rule the nations with fairness.
English Standard Version
and he judges the world with righteousness; he judges the peoples with uprightness.
New American Standard Bible
And He will judge the world in righteousness; He will execute judgment for the peoples with equity.
King James Bible
And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

Righteousness~~what is right, just, normal; rightness, justness, of weights and measures,
We believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation,Acts 16:31

If He caused you to believe, perfect righteousness and perfect justice would cause all men to believe.

 

[childeye]

we are getting there! Love is the motive of Grace, justice is the function of Grace and mercy is grace in action. And it is Acts 16:31~~ those who believe will be saved. perfect justice or righteousness can't save a soul one way and differently for another soul. Why do you suppose we have unbelievers going to the LoF?

What is LoF?

Isa 53:10~~New American Standard Bible
But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

Exactly, which means the accuser and author of sin and guilt, Satan, is who crucified the innocent Christ. A perfect self destructing circle of corruption according to God's foreknowledge and wisdom.

John 10:17~~New American Standard Bible
"For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again.

Glory be to the Father and to His Christ. John 10:11-12. Who lays down his Life for His Fathers sheep.

Do you believe everybody will saved?

My safe answer is I hope all men will be saved. I acknowledge that God can do whatever He wants to and it is just. So that if He wanted to show His wrath, He could have prepared vessels to accommodate His purpose. For He has mercy upon whom He will have mercy, and he Hardens whom He hardens. Romans 9:18. John 3:8.

I can assure you that this was your emotion and in actuality you were in sin thinking this way.
This is what the Holy Spirit convicts us of......John 16:8-9~~8“And He( holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

This response of yours is pertaining to a story about two different discernments of why Jesus gave up his Life for us, and the judgment that takes place at the cup accordingly. I find that often times scripture can be taken two ways, as if the wicked hear something different than the pure of heart when reading it.

What? You drank blood? Where did it come from? What verse says we are to drink blood,coming from some man to be saved?

In scripture, the blood is a metaphor for the life of the sacrificed. Hence Jesus says, "my blood is drink and my body is food". John 6:55.

A cruel and merciless prosecutor? Do you mean God? God is a just and righteous Judge.

No, this is the cruel and merciless prosecutor.
Revelation 12:10-11King James Version (KJV)
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

If He caused you to believe, perfect righteousness and perfect justice would cause all men to believe.

God is Love. This fact causes problems in understanding the inferences from things we all say and hear. I don't see how a man with little or no Love can believe in Love. Even so, that does not mean I can say with certainty that God is unable to save him. Yes He/God/Love, caused me to believe, therefore I believe any man with Love in their hearts could believe given that they understood what it is they were supposed to be convinced of, so as to believe. John 3:8.

 

[mswright6488]

I do

I like this last comment, our spiritual rebirth is far greater than our carnal one. Our old man is dead, I don't believe Jesus' carnal birth is to be celebrated either, His death is what he told us to remember for that is what he came to do, lower himself to our level to pay our debt in a flesh body which is the only legal payment.
As for the Holy Spirit being the Father, that is not so, she is a dove(Peace) and the mothering side of God and the bride and wife. Jesus the Word is the SEED of God that is implanted into our circumcised hearts where it can grow us into the image of Christ(attributes) not looks.
If one rejects the Word of God, they have rejected God for the Father and His Word and Holy Spirit are one God. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is our sign of adoption and the Spirit is as our mother who teaches us of the Fathers Word.
Luke 8:11
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
KJV
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
KJV
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
KJV
Go uses His Word to create everything, And God said... And God said... The Word is On the Right hand of God LITERALLY His right hand!

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
KJV
Notice The Word was being baptized, the Holy Spirit as a dove was descending on him and the Father in heaven spoke.
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
KJV
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. KJV
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
KJV
Our mother is heavenly Jerusalem, the bride and wife of the Lamb and the Spirit and the Bride are one in the same.
God is a full family unit, yet considered a He for the Father is the Head of His household.

I don't understand either just what you meant about the holy spirit being (her)? God uses symbols and His ways are not ours. The bible says the (HE) is three in one. I never heard that in scripture... about the (she) or (her) being the holy spirit. I believe the holy spirit is the (BREATH) of God, But that's just me.

 

[childeye]

I said this:
Your claim is that humanity has God's life in them. I disagree with that. And you haven't substantiated your claim from Scripture.

My claim is that every living creature has God's Life in them.

"But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them."

Does this verse say that the breath of life is God's life? No.

You asked me this question, Where in Scripture do you find "the Spirit of Life"? My answer was in response to that question.

But since not every man is lighted, your understanding of the verse needs correction.

I know what it says. You want to count this scripture as if it pertains to Eternal Life, when it doesn't pertain to Eternal Life, but to that Life that is afforded every man that comes into the world.

Please support your idea from a source.

2 Corinthians 4:4.

All you've done is cobble some verses together with key words to support your view.

To be clear, my view is that a corrupt image of god in someone's belief system corrupts the person. These scriptures say the same thing.

Adam disobeyed God's command to not eat of the tree. There was nothing about a false image of god involved. You still have not shown otherwise.

Yes Adam disobeyed God's command, but there was a false image of god introduced by Satan that inspired disobedience. Satan said god was a liar that was keeping Adam and Eve from the very thing that would make them like God, the ability to discern between good and evil. That is a false image of god. Genesis 3:5.

 

[childeye]

This isn't a judgment statement. It's a discerning statement.

Yes a discerning statement which judges us as either for him or against him.

You've already acknowledged that you don't avail yourself to teaching under the authority of a pastor, which is God's method for believers learning His Word. I've already given the verses.

I never acknowledged that. I said I have talked to many priests and teachers.

And that isn't how God teaches believers. The Holy Spirit didn't give out the gift of pastor-teacher for nothing. Or just for kicks. There is a reason for that gift. But you seem to think you can side step.

Again, I didn't side step anything. The wind blows where it blows according to God's purpose.

 

[Gregg]

My claim is that every living creature has God's Life in them.

A life that is created by God in every creature? or The life of God that is of His essence and Person?

 

[childeye]

A life that is created by God in every creature? or The life of God that is of His essence and Person?

Thank you for drawing the distinction Gregg. My statement above refers to every living creature. I am saying that Life, the Spirit that animates all life on the planet comes from God.

 

[FreeGrace]

What is LoF?

Lake of Fire.

Glory be to the Father and to His Christ. John 10:11-12. Who lays down his Life for His Fathers sheep.

To be clear, Jesus laid down His life for THE sheep. Not "His" sheep, nor "His Father's" sheep. He died for THE sheep.

My safe answer is I hope all men will be saved.

Let's rather be Biblical. While God desires all men to be saved, per 1 Tim 2:4, we know that wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and narrow is the gate that leads to life. So, obviously, many more people will end up in the LoF than in heaven.

 

[FreeGrace]

My claim is that every living creature has God's Life in them.

I know that. And I totally disagree, for the simple fact that there is no support for that view from Scripture.

To be clear, my view is that a corrupt image of god in someone's belief system corrupts the person. These scriptures say the same thing.

To be clear, the Bible says that man was corrupted from Adam's sin. Rom 5:12-20.

Yes Adam disobeyed God's command, but there was a false image of god introduced by Satan that inspired disobedience.

You have not shown any evidence of that notion. Satan did deceive the woman. But not by a false image of god.

Satan said god was a liar that was keeping Adam and Eve from the very thing that would make them like God, the ability to discern between good and evil. That is a false image of god. Genesis 3:5.

OK, that's what you mean by false image. The problem with your view is that it was the disobedience that caused Adam and the woman to become corrupted and fallen. Not a false image.

While it's true that Satan painted God out to be a liar, that wasn't sin. That lead to sin.