Data On The Trinity

[gordon777]

Jesus has the name above all other, above EVERY NAME, in heaven and earth, it is the throne of God and of the lamb. ( they are one, ONE LORD.)


Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

 

[Peterlag]

No, that certainly is not the case. I'm struggling to understand how you are unable to simply follow a discussion. Did you click on the link I provided? If you did, you would see your post, where you mention a verse, and then my rebuttal of your post. That is the discussion we were having, so why are you now asking for another verse when that discussion is far from over?

Perhaps I commented on it and you did not understand my response. Or perhaps I did not understand what you were saying concerning the verse and did not give you the proper answer. Would it be too much to ask if you would enjoy listing the verse again?

 

[Free]

Perhaps I commented on it and you did not understand my response. Or perhaps I did not understand what you were saying concerning the verse and did not give you the proper answer. Would it be too much to ask if you would enjoy listing the verse again?

https://christianforums.net/threads/data-on-the-trinity.91799/page-7#post-1691562

 

[gordon777]

Everybody who is not of one mind and judgement, will not know God is one, all is straight forward and follows the same path.



1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;

 

[Randy]

I do not believe that Jesus is God. A study of the history of the Christian Church shows a definite development in the doctrine of the Trinity over the centuries. For example, the early form of the Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.

But He is the exact image of "God".
The image of the invisible God.
He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of "God’s very being."

How is that so?
Col 1:19 Gifted from the will of another before the world began. It is the Fathers Deity that dwells in Jesus (without limit)
Because in Him it did please all the fullness to dwell.

It was also shown God (The Father) made all things through Jesus or by Jesus.
Just as Jesus the Son of Man testified the works He performed show He and the Father are ONE.

Jesus in that context is ALL that the Father is "God" and He (His spirit) has always been the Son. The firstborn.

When God brings the firstborn into the world He commands all the angels to bow to Him. (hebrews 1:6)

Even the Church recognizes Jesus was begotten of the Father before all worlds and the Father is unbegotten. That the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Jesus=> For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

The Son who was, (His spirit), was in the body prepared for Him. As in the Word became flesh. And the Father was living in Him as we read.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

 

[gordon777]

But He is the exact image of "God".
The image of the invisible God.
He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of "God’s very being."

How is that so?
Col 1:19 Gifted from the will of another before the world began. It is the Fathers Deity that dwells in Jesus (without limit)
Because in Him it did please all the fullness to dwell.

It was also shown God (The Father) made all things through Jesus or by Jesus.
Just as Jesus the Son of Man testified the works He performed show He and the Father are ONE.

Jesus in that context is ALL that the Father is "God" and He (His spirit) has always been the Son. The firstborn.

When God brings the firstborn into the world He commands all the angels to bow to Him. (hebrews 1:6)

Even the Church recognizes Jesus was begotten of the Father before all worlds and the Father is unbegotten. That the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Jesus=> For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

The Son who was, (His spirit), was in the body prepared for Him. As in the Word became flesh. And the Father was living in Him as we read.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Jesus is the first begotten of the dead, it is not difficult to understand. ( He left Heaven but was always in Heaven.)



John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.




1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

 

[Randy]

Jesus is the first begotten of the dead, it is not difficult to understand. ( He left Heaven but was always in Heaven.)



John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.




1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

So?
Jesus was given the Supremacy in all things. (first)
He is the first begotten of all creation.

When Jesus used the word God He referred to the Father.
rev 3:14
"The beginning of the creation of God" -(Father)

He is Gods firstborn and has always been the Son.

A distinction was made by Paul between God and Lord that is not captured by orthodox trinity statements.
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Differences have been shown.
Jesus has a God and Father. Even the church states begotten of the Father before all worlds.
The Father has no God or Father and has not received from any other being. As the church states "unbegotten"

This took place at a point in history before the world began and is from the will of another. It is NOT coeternal
(Col 1:19)

And it can be shown from scripture the Father as the only true God.
John 17:3-Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
1 Cor 8:6 -yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
Jude 25 - to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
Romans 16:27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
1 Timothy 2:5 There is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus
Eph 4:5-6 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all

 

[pierac]

You think you biblically spanked me by your unbelief in a Jesus who was a being with the Father before the world began and through whom all things were made? I believe I am in good company.

Clearly you believe in a Jesus who began life in the womb of Mary.

Unlike such men born of women
one who has become a priest, not through a legal requirement concerning physical descent, but through the power of an indestructible life.

Yea... that is what the bible teaches....
Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

What reason? that He existed before time... No, read the verse again!!!

Many prophecies indicated that the Coming One would arise from the "seed," the stock of humanity, in a particular from Abrahamic and Davidic stock. The Messiah would be from the biological chain within the human family, specifically of Jewish pedigree: "The Lord your God will rise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your own countrymen [literally, brothers]; you shall listen to him" (Deut.18:15). In this passage, Moses predicts that the coming Messiah would be a person "like me," raised up from "among" the people of Israel, and that God would not speak to the people directly, because they were afraid that if God spoke without a mediator they would die (V16). The coming "prophet" would be a man of whom it is said that God would "put his word in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him. And it shall come about whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him” (v. 18-19). To say that the Messiah is God Himself is to contradict the whole point of this prophecy.

Listen to Jesus... and His followers.... They teach what Moses said would come....

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus
the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jesus is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.
Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through (on account of) whom also He (God) made the world.

Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be.

What do you actually think begotten means?
Webster Dictionary 1828... Yea... even back in 1828 thay knew what Begotten meant
Begotten
BEGOT', BEGOT'TEN, pp. of get. Procreated; generated.

God is Eternal with out beginning or end... Not procreated or generated....

So when was Jesus procreated or generated by the Holy Spirit??
Luk 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

Hope this helps,
Paul

 

[Peterlag]

John 1:3 could very well be referring to God. I don't see how you get Jesus from logos. Again... It is imperative that the serious student of the Bible come to a basic understanding of logos, which is translated as "Word" in John 1:1. Most Trinitarians believe that the word logos refers directly to Jesus Christ, so in most versions of John logos is capitalized and translated "Word" (some versions even write "Christ" in John 1:1). However, a study of the Greek word logos shows that it occurs more than 300 times in the New Testament, and in both the NIV and the KJV it is capitalized only 7 times (and even those versions disagree on exactly when to capitalize it.) When a word that occurs more than 300 times is capitalized fewer than 10 times, it is obvious that when to capitalize and when not to capitalize is a translator's decision based on their particular understanding of Scripture. As it is used throughout Scripture, logos has a very wide range of meanings along two basic lines of thought. One is the mind and products of the mind like "reason" (thus "logic" is related to logos) and the other is the expression of that reason as a "word," "saying," "command," etc. The Bible itself demonstrates the wide range of meaning logos has, and some of the ways it is translated in Scripture are: account, appearance, book, command, conversation, eloquence, flattery, grievance, heard, instruction, matter, message, ministry, news, proposal, question, reason, reasonable, reply, report, rule, rumor, said, saying, sentence, speaker, speaker, speaking, speech, stories, story, talk, talking, teaching, testimony, thing, things, this, truths, what, why, word, and words. I had thought you would have picked a verse that had not a wide range of me

https://christianforums.net/threads/data-on-the-trinity.91799/page-7#post-1691562

Oh I see now. I did respond to this John 1 stuff. You just did not like my answer. It was not that I was ignoring you. You did not like what I said about John 1. You also mentioned we should consider John 17:5. So let's look at it...

John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.

There is no question that Jesus existed before the world began. But did he exist literally as a person or in God's foreknowledge, in the mind of God? Both Christ and the corporate Body of Christ, the Church, existed in God's foreknowledge before being alive. Christ was the "logos" the plan of God from the beginning, and he became flesh only when he was conceived. It is the Trinitarian bias that causes people to read an actual physical existence into this verse rather than a figurative existence in the mind of God. When Timothy 1:9 says that each Christian was given grace before the beginning of time. No one tries to prove that we were actually alive with God back then. Everyone acknowledges that we were in the mind of God, i.e., in God's foreknowledge. The same is true of Jesus Christ. His glory was with the Father before the world began and in John 17:5 he prayed that it would come into manifestation.

 

[Peterlag]

But He is the exact image of "God".
The image of the invisible God.
He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of "God’s very being."

How is that so?
Col 1:19 Gifted from the will of another before the world began. It is the Fathers Deity that dwells in Jesus (without limit)
Because in Him it did please all the fullness to dwell.

It was also shown God (The Father) made all things through Jesus or by Jesus.
Just as Jesus the Son of Man testified the works He performed show He and the Father are ONE.

Jesus in that context is ALL that the Father is "God" and He (His spirit) has always been the Son. The firstborn.

When God brings the firstborn into the world He commands all the angels to bow to Him. (hebrews 1:6)

Even the Church recognizes Jesus was begotten of the Father before all worlds and the Father is unbegotten. That the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

Jesus=> For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

The Son who was, (His spirit), was in the body prepared for Him. As in the Word became flesh. And the Father was living in Him as we read.

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Speaking of Colossians 1:19
We should notice that this phrase tells us that Jesus is not God, because if he was, the fullness of God would not reside in him. The fullness of God does not reside in God, any more than the fullness of who we are resides in us. Our identity and fullness does not just live in us, it is us. We see this elsewhere in the New Testament. For example Ephesians 3:19 says And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. It is very clear that a person can be filled with the fullness of God and not be God.

 

[Free]

Oh I see now. I did respond to this John 1 stuff. You just did not like my answer. It was not that I was ignoring you. You did not like what I said about John 1.

You really don't seem to understand how debate and discussion actually work. It isn't a matter of you posting something and if I don't like it, I post what I think, and then we move on. I made several points which refute your understanding; I have proven you wrong, or at least likely wrong and my interpretation is better. I showed that your reasoning is faulty.

This is the point where you respond to the points in my response, not move on to something else. You're just interested in monologue, not dialogue, which is how we come to the truth, or the most likely truth, of a matter.

 

[Randy]

Speaking of Colossians 1:19
We should notice that this phrase tells us that Jesus is not God, because if he was, the fullness of God would not reside in him. The fullness of God does not reside in God, any more than the fullness of who we are resides in us. Our identity and fullness does not just live in us, it is us. We see this elsewhere in the New Testament. For example Ephesians 3:19 says And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that we might be filled with all the fullness of God. It is very clear that a person can be filled with the fullness of God and not be God.

Jesus has always been the Son. Gods firstborn. In that context He isn't God. It is the Fathers Deity that dwells in Him without limit. (fullness) So the Son is the exact image of the Father and they are ONE. Jesus is all that the Father is and is called God in that context.

As His God has stated
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

One God the Father and One Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[gordon777]

Just as Jesus is different to all who have lived on earth( He is from Heaven and not earth unlike all men that have ever lived) He came to earth to be made like unto the Son of God, and to be made like a Son of man, yet Him being from Heaven could never be the same Son of man as other sons of men ( He is Heavenly) neither could he be a Son of God, as He was made like unto( always was God and Heavenly.)

This is a mystery, and no point you guys keep discussing something you have no enlightenment about( unless you want to hear me.)




Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[Randy]

Just as Jesus is different to all who have lived on earth( He is from Heaven and not earth unlike all men that have ever lived) He came to earth to be made like unto the Son of God, and to be made like a Son of man, yet Him being from Heaven could never be the same Son of man as other sons of men ( He is Heavenly) neither could he be a Son of God, as He was made like unto( always was God and Heavenly.)

This is a mystery, and no point you guys keep discussing something you have no enlightenment about( unless you want to hear me.)




Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus has a Father. Jesus has a God. I agree He came down from heaven,(His spirit),and dwelled in the body prepared for Him. Hebrews 7 was also speaking of Melchizedek which makes it ambiguous as he couldn't be someone with no beginning or ending. And if Melchizedek was Jesus why would there be a need to appoint him a 2nd time. "A priest forever"

I think if one wants to know who Jesus is as one who believes in Him all they need to do is ask Him. He does answer prayers.

 

[gordon777]

Jesus has a Father. Jesus has a God. I agree He came down from heaven,(His spirit),and dwelled in the body prepared for Him. Hebrews 7 was also speaking of Melchizedek which makes it ambiguous as he couldn't be someone with no beginning or ending. And if Melchizedek was Jesus why would there be a need to appoint him a 2nd time. "A priest forever"

I think if one wants to know who Jesus is as one who believes in Him all they need to do is ask Him. He does answer prayers.

Jesus had a Father, Jesus had a God, ( when in the flesh) we know Him no longer after the flesh.

The Father and the Son are now one in us, one Spirit, there is no separation any more.

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;



Jesus is our High Priest, ( there is no other High Priest) of the Priesthood changed to Melchizedek


Hebrews 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.




Not only Jesus is the only High Priest and is Melchizedek, He also is the law( that which has no beginning and no ending as He is life)

If you can only pick on things you can never understand, no wonder you wont be showing understanding in God by giving your life for others( as God did for us..Jesus Christ.)







Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



It is God( Jesus Christ) who layed His life down for us( it cant be different lives, it is ONE AND SAME, God Jesus Christ gave His life a ransom for us.)


John 1:4 IN HIM WAS LIFE; and the life was the light of men.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give HIS LIFE a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD WAS MANIFEST IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, RECEIVED UP TO GLORY.

1 John 1:2 (FOR THE LIFE WAS MANIFESTED, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down HIS LIFE for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

 

[gordon777]

And if Melchizedek was Jesus why would there be a need to appoint him a 2nd time. "A priest forever"

Because it is appointed unto men once to die, so Christ was offered to bear the sins of many ( to then be the Priest forever.)

Then we can look for Him without sin( as He bore the sins of many) to salvation ( to our High Priest forever.)



Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[Randy]

Because it is appointed unto men once to die, so Christ was offered to bear the sins of many ( to then be the Priest forever.)

Then we can look for Him without sin( as He bore the sins of many) to salvation ( to our High Priest forever.)



Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

In regard to Jesus -"Given, appointed, exalted, inherited, granted) - it is clear that it is the Father who has glorified His Son
In regard to the Father - Has not received from any other being, "Unbegotten" has no God

Yes, Jesus came to do the will of the one who sent Him. He has His own will however.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

It was the Fathers message that Jesus gave us. God speaking to us by His Son.
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.

It is the Fathers salvation
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

[gordon777]

In regard to Jesus -"Given, appointed, exalted, inherited, granted) - it is clear that it is the Father who has glorified His Son
In regard to the Father - Has not received from any other being, "Unbegotten" has no God

Yes, Jesus came to do the will of the one who sent Him. He has His own will however.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

It was the Fathers message that Jesus gave us. God speaking to us by His Son.
“I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.

It is the Fathers salvation
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Jesus came into the world and while He was in the world( being God) He always was in Heaven.


John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.



That is how the Son glorifies the Father and the Father glorifies the Son( there is no separation of them, as both are one, you cant show any differences.)


John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:


Yes Jesus does have His own will and did all after the counsel of His own will( that also is thew same will of the Father.)



Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together IN ONE ALL THINGS IN CHRISTned an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him WHO WORKETH ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL:
12 That we should be TO THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORY, WHO FIRST TRUSTED IN CHRIST.




I know your purpose in life is to deny Jesus Christ( that is the antichrists sent into all the world)



1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.





All things are gathered in Christ, there is nobody else to know, we know the Father only through Jesus Christ, there is no one else to know. The judgement seat is Christ, we hear nothing of anybody else. The name is one, the judgement is His, the one who loved us and gave Himself for us is Christ, there is one Spirit to know, it is the Spirit of Christ, and of course Jesus spoke the words of the Father, because Jesus came to earth to show us how to honour the Father, and we honour the Father only by honouring the Son, or we dishonour Him ( as your vain attempt tries to do, but I can answer too easily for ever.)



John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

 

[gordon777]

You see that is your weakness Randy, you think that the will of Jesus is different to the will of God.( that is your weakness as through it you are denying the Son of God)

The will of God is in Jesus Christ, and never was out of Him.

Then believing that there is one will, God makes us to do His will, through Jesus Christ.




1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.




Knowing there is one Spirit that comes to us( the Father and the Son is simple to know there is One Shepherd, and it is Jesus Christ. ( why don't the deceivers go and deceive the hearts of the simple instead.)




Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[Randy]

You see that is your weakness Randy, you think that the will of Jesus is different to the will of God.( that is your weakness as through it you are denying the Son of God)

The will of God is in Jesus Christ, and never was out of Him.

Then believing that there is one will, God makes us to do His will, through Jesus Christ.




1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.




Knowing there is one Spirit that comes to us( the Father and the Son is simple to know there is One Shepherd, and it is Jesus Christ. ( why don't the deceivers go and deceive the hearts of the simple instead.)




Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

I have no idea of your point. I believe Jesus is before all things and those things were made through Him. He is shown as a craftsman in the beginning with the Father in regard to the creation. I believe He came down from heaven. I believe He rose on the third day and ascended to right hand of the Father. (Where He was before)

I have the Spirit of Christ in me. I know Him and He knows me.

I think Jesus submits His will and follows the Fathers will. As in He remains in the Fathers love because He always does what pleases Him.