Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine

[donadams]

So then she both not the Mother of God and is the Mother of God in your statement. You've managed to Split the "ONE" God. That makes me correct as well.
Why do you think Mary is married to the Spirit of God as I never read such a thing in the NT?

We never said Mary is the mother of the divine nature
Spouse of the spirit
Lk 1:34-35
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? (Perpetual virginity)

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

 

[donadams]

??
Acts 9:4
New International Version
4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

He was persecuting the church
Christ and his church are one!

 

[Randy]

He was persecuting the church
Christ and his church are one!

Jesus and I are one.
Do you know Him? or do you think you have eternal life by claiming the church?
Yes, Paul was traveling to distant lands to arrest "Jews" who proclaimed faith in Christ. To you presume to state that to me?

 

[Randy]

We never said Mary is the mother of the divine nature
Spouse of the spirit
Lk 1:34-35
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? (Perpetual virginity)

35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Mary was a virgin so yes she asked how would she have a son. But the fact that Jesus had named brothers and unnamed sisters suggests she had relations with her lawful husband "after" Jesus was born.
And that's strongly implied if not outright stated.
4 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

 

[donadams]

Yes
Can you be saved without Jesus?
No

Do you know Him?

People can call on the Lord and believe in Him apart from a priest.

My Jesus lives and nothing is hidden from Him. He see's and hears those who pray and believe in Him. He still has authority to give life to whoever He chooses to give life.

Sorry but that’s not correct
Heb 7:17

What is required to be a Christian?

 

[donadams]

You didn't learn that from Christ. He is in us and the Father is in Him. That's the oneness He taught. Your outlook is church related my outlook is much more relationship related with Christ. Christ and the one who belongs to Him as the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

So again I ask you do you KNOW Him in that personal relationship?
This witness can not be mistaken. Can you pass this test as one of being in the faith?
The Spirit testifies to our spirit we are the children of God.

Is baptism required?

 

[donadams]

Exactly... A perfect(future realization) idea founded with flawed persons.
All sorts of human errors that are included in the perfect(future) body.

The Heavenly Father does not reveal error

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matt 28:19 go teach all nations
Teach truth not error

 

[donadams]

Yep... all us flawed Disciples.
Where are the latter days apostles in Scripture? None of your references show Apostles after the first batch.

See how the apostle Peter exercised authority and made a replacement for judas, Timothy replaced Paul too
That continues till Christ returns

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[donadams]

None of your references mentioned the Pope. So therefore the Pope can teach error.
Actually your posts point out that men are prone to error and to the need for correction by the Spirit... not by the Church.

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 18:17
1 Tim 3:15

All you have is spiritual pride and anarchy and errors


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

 

[donadams]

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard from the Father and has learned comes to Me.

Do you know Him?

All taught by God cos it is a revealed religion, but only apostles have authority to teach Matt 28:19
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42

 

[Randy]

Sorry but that’s not correct
Heb 7:17

What is required to be a Christian?

Was it a trick question?

What is the test of being in the faith.
Christ in us,

To those who received Jesus and believed in His name God gave the right for them to be called the children of God.

Do you have that inner witness of the Spirit of Christ in you? I do.

 

[donadams]

Jesus and I are one.
Do you know Him? or do you think you have eternal life by claiming the church?
Yes, Paul was traveling to distant lands to arrest "Jews" who proclaimed faith in Christ. To you presume to state that to me?

The church is necessary for salvation

 

[Randy]

Is baptism required?

I was baptized. While it is the norm Jesus is not bound by it. If someone on their deathbed comes to Christ and circumstances don't allow for such baptism then can be saved. Babies and the very young can be held blameless if they pass away before apart from baptism. I hope your not advocating babies and very young children are sent to hell unless baptized.

 

[Randy]

The church is necessary for salvation

You consistently avoid answering whether you know Jesus. What are you hiding?

 

[donadams]

Mary was a virgin so yes she asked how would she have a son. But the fact that Jesus had named brothers and unnamed sisters suggests she had relations with her lawful husband "after" Jesus was born.
And that's strongly implied if not outright stated.
4 When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. 25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.

Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?

Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!

Lk 1:34 no sex ever!

Martin Luther

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin. … Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact. (Weimer’s The Works of Luther, English translation by Pelikan, Concordia, St. Louis, v. 11, pp. 319-320; v. 6. p. 510.)

John Calvin

(On the Heretic Helvidius) Helvidius displayed excessive ignorance in concluding that Mary must have had many sons, because Christ’s “brothers” are sometimes mentioned. (Harmony of Matthew, Mark and Luke, sec. 39 [Geneva, 1562], vol. 2 / From Calvin’s Commentaries, translated by William Pringle, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1949, p.215; on Matthew 13:55)

[On Matt 1:25:] The inference he [Helvidius] drew from it was, that Mary remained a virgin no longer than till her first birth, and that afterwards she had other children by her husband . . . No just and well-grounded inference can be drawn from these words . . . as to what took place after the birth of Christ. He is called “first-born”; but it is for the sole purpose of informing us that he was born of a virgin . . . What took place afterwards the historian does not inform us . . . No man will obstinately keep up the argument, except from an extreme fondness for disputation. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 107)

Under the word “brethren” the Hebrews include all cousins and other relations, whatever may be the degree of affinity. (Pringle, ibid., vol. I, p. 283 / Commentary on John, [7:3])

John Wesley

‘I believe that He [Jesus] was made man, joining the human nature with the divine in one person; being conceived by the singular operation of the Holy Ghost, and born of the blessed Virgin Mary, who, as well after as before she brought Him forth, continued a pure and unspotted virgin’ (‘Letter to a Roman Catholic’, The Works of Rev. John Wesley, vol 10, p. 81).


St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

 

[Randy]

The Heavenly Father does not reveal error

Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Matt 28:19 go teach all nations
Teach truth not error

You mean Simon learned that from God not a church? Oh My!

 

[Paul Timothy]

Isa 22:21-22
Matt 18:17
1 Tim 3:15

All you have is spiritual pride and anarchy and errors


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

So not one verse that says that the Pope is infallible.
And if you are just throwing out verses then Mark 8:33 and Matt 16:18... I am following the way you present your arguments... so the Church is built on Satan?
Sounds a bit far fetched to me.

Where is your verse that says that Peter's successors exist? I don't recall Peter appointing a successor.

 

[Randy]

All taught by God cos it is a revealed religion, but only apostles have authority to teach Matt 28:19
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42

No one states Jesus is Lord apart from the Holy Spirit. Those who listen and learn from the Father go to Jesus and its His Fathers will that He raises them up on the last day.

If the Spirit of Christ is not in you then you don't belong to Jesus.
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

 

[Paul Timothy]

See how the apostle Peter exercised authority and made a replacement for judas, Timothy replaced Paul too
That continues till Christ returns

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,

25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Yes... but as Paul was the 12th apostle... Peter made another presumptuous mistake in replacing Judas by playing dice(or other game of chance).
So you see Peter was far from infallible and, if anything, he passed that nature on.

 

[jaybo]

And no my wife can't become an elder .
A prophet isnt a teacher ,an elder is called to teach ,and must be married to one man

Kinda hard for a lady

Where does it say that an elder must be married to one man?