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Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine

jasonc said:
The day is gonna be calculated.

Three point five years ,dont insult my intelligence you can use the lunar cycle to predict when the the feast will be.

Unless you think that God will change time and it means eons .

Either it's literal or figurative and if it's that literal then you have a problem as it's not meant for anyone to know
And yet people make opinions and say they know .

This my point .it's not meant to be known .
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I dont understand anything you wrote.

I referred to the feast of trumpets, being when Jesus will return based on His use of the words "no one knows the day or hour".

Even if you dont agree that the feast of trumpets is not what Jesus is referring to, can you at least see that we can know the week, month, and year?

Paul says it this way...

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:4


His coming will not be a surprise for Christians who are watching.



JLB
 
jasonc said:
Kinda hard to watch and not know the time and yet preach there is a seven year time frame .
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There is a 7 year time frame.


Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), Matthew 24:15




JLB
 
jaybo said:
Not forgetting, of course, that Jesus called Peter "Satan" and a stumbling block to Him. And he denied knowing Jesus three times. Hopefully, Peter didn't pass anything of his human nature on to anyone!
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We all can be jerks sometimes. Not just a Peter issue. I am pointing at myself here as well.
 
Paul Timothy said:
Did you not say it was Matthias?
Most would say Paul.

Or does there need to be another traitor to succeed a traitor?
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But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. Galatians 1:19


James was most an apostle before Paul.



JLB
 
Paul Timothy said:
So Peter picked the wrong one even Accor to you?

Brave stance to take.
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No.

“Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles. Acts 1:21-26


It was accomplished by they other apostles and the Holy Spirit.


Mathias replaced Judas, as one of the twelve.


James was considered an apostle and later Paul and Barnabas would be “sent” out by the Holy Spirit.



JLB
 
JLB said:
No.

“Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
And they proposed two: Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed and said, “You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which of these two You have chosen to take part in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.” And they cast their lots, and the lot fell on Matthias. And he was numbered with the eleven apostles. Acts 1:21-26


It was accomplished by they other apostles and the Holy Spirit.


Mathias replaced Judas, as one of the twelve.


James was considered an apostle and later Paul and Barnabas would be “sent” out by the Holy Spirit.



JLB
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But you contradicted yourself, as I see it, when you say that James was the 12th.
I see you like to move goalposts when challenged.
The bit in your quote you glossed over was that they cast lots among the persons who were at the table at the time.

But hey lets just get to the nub of the thing... How do you define what an apostle is?
What makes a disciple an apostle? What is the difference?
Please define the word apostle.
 
Paul Timothy said:
But you contradicted yourself, as I see it, when you say that James was the 12th.
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Here is what I stated —


James was considered an apostle and later Paul and Barnabas would be “sent” out by the Holy Spirit.


As you can see I never said James was the 12th.

I plainly said James was considered an apostle…


But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. Galatians 1:19




JLB
 
JLB said:
Here is what I stated —


James was considered an apostle and later Paul and Barnabas would be “sent” out by the Holy Spirit.


As you can see I never said James was the 12th.

I plainly said James was considered an apostle…


But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. Galatians 1:19




JLB
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But if I say Paul was the 12th and you point out that James came before Paul as an apostle... it is reasonable to infer that you are saying that James would be the 12th.
Just using the basic rules of logic here.
And it looks like you are using hyper-literlism to avoid certain ramifications of your statements.
 
jaybo said:
Not forgetting, of course, that Jesus called Peter "Satan" and a stumbling block to Him. And he denied knowing Jesus three times. Hopefully, Peter didn't pass anything of his human nature on to anyone!
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In considering Peters denial I don't think He no longer believed but was so very afraid for his life he lied. As Satan was sifting him at this weak point of opportunity. God would only allow this for Peters "good" not harm as Peter was refined in that fire in his outlook toward others in regard to the depth and love of God's grace and not so quick to judge. He was humbled. Also I think to prepare Peter for the future where he would drink the Lords cup and not make the same mistake again.

Peter gave up everything to follow Jesus and in the end was executed for his testimony of Jesus. You can't give up more than that to show your love towards Christ Jesus.
 
Paul Timothy said:
The verse says the Spirit leads. Not the Apostle leads.

Nope... I don't see that in the New Testament.
If you want your argument to hold water maybe use texts that actually address the point.
When did Peter pass any keys?
And still Peter was just a man full of faults and failings.
So if he passed anything on it would be his human nature.
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I meant the apostles are lead into all truth then they teach us

The apostles remain until the end of the world Matt 28:19 so the leadership must pass on to another
 
Paul Timothy said:
The verse says the Spirit leads. Not the Apostle leads.

Nope... I don't see that in the New Testament.
If you want your argument to hold water maybe use texts that actually address the point.
When did Peter pass any keys?
And still Peter was just a man full of faults and failings.
So if he passed anything on it would be his human nature.
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We don’t believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone”!
 
donadams said:
I meant the apostles are lead into all truth then they teach us

The apostles remain until the end of the world Matt 28:19 so the leadership must pass on to another
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Here is the complete sentence (verses are artificial divisions): "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age." Matthew 28:19-20

The end of the age is not the end of the world, otherwise it would say "end of the world".
 
donadams said:
We don’t believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone”!
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a) "Bible alone", i.e., sola scriptura, is one of five "solas".
b) It is not a false doctrine simply because your priests tell you it is. They have to justify their invented doctrine.
c) Who is "we"? Do you have multiple personalities?
 
Paul Timothy said:
Most people would say Paul was the 12th. Ordained by God not the hand of man.

What confession??????????????????????????????????
And what do YOU mean by "church"?

Maybe you need to re-read John 17. Lots more than just Peter getting prayed for.

If you read the text you provide it does not give the flock to Peter... but gives Peter a job to "feed the sheep".
It is not telling the sheep to follow Peter but ordering Peter to get to work.

Where is that in the Bible?
And what about Gal 2:11? Peter gets corrected.

And you and I are also children of the King... If you asked Christ if the tribute is due... He would say the same to you or I.
Just because Peter asked the question does not indicate special position.

Funny, I don't see any mention in Matt that Peter was elevated to Prime Minister.


And he also gets taken down a notch by Paul in Gal 2:11.
Not so perfect was he?
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Are you really interested in learning!? or just want to spout your pride induced protest, pride always protests, always in rebellion
 
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