Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine

[donadams]

Where is that definition in the Bible?
Where is that definition in any literature... outside the RCC?
New one to me.
I thought the one who holds the keys can lock and unlock things... usually at the order of their boss.

Isa 22:21/22

 

[Paul Timothy]

Isa 22:21/22

I don't see any reference to prime minister here.
It reads like the key gives ability... I see nothing about authority.

 

[jaybo]

whoops.. my bad.

I am very sorry... I got mixed up.
Please disregard my flub... too many conversations going on at the same time.

No problem!

 

[jaybo]

There are violations of the ToS. Any further violations will result in being banned from this thread.

Where can one read the ToS?

 

[donadams]

The dispute appears to be in how that grace is received. By grace through faith in Christ as enabled by Gods Holy Spirit or enabled through sacraments. Paul preached Christ as the only mediator between God and man when Jesus was already in heaven. Why would he do so if its no longer held true as you state?

Jesus Christ instituted the sacraments for the salvation of all men!

Sacramental life of the Christian church: I come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Jn 10:10 Jn 1:16-17

Baptism: (initiation into the covenant)
Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 8:36
1 Corinthians 12:13 2 pet 1:11
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The Eucharist: (holy communion)
Mt 26:26-39 Jn 6:51-58 1 Cor 11:23-25

Confession of sins:
Jn 20:23 / 1 Jn 1:9 / 2 cor 5:18

Confirmation
Lk 22:32 acts 8:14-17
acts 14:22

Marriage:
Matt 19:4-6

Holy orders: (priesthood)
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru His priesthood in Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 10:1-8 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 acts 1:17 acts 6:4 acts 8:26
2 Cor 5:18 1 Tim 4:14 Eph 2:20

Extreme unction: (anointing with oil)
1 Tim 4:14 James 5:14

The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles!

 

[Free]

Where can one read the ToS?

Links are under most forum headings.

https://christianforums.net/pages/TOS/

 

[jaybo]

Links are under most forum headings.

https://christianforums.net/pages/TOS/

Okay, thanks. If I have violated the ToS, I apologize.

 

[donadams]

Still no Biblical references to backup your statements.
I still don't see you providing references.
That is all we ask.

Matt 17:24-27
I gave you this reference when I asked the question

 

[Paul Timothy]

Matt 17:24-27
I gave you this reference when I asked the question

Including references any time you are quoting a passage is just good form.

 

[donadams]

Read my previous post #449.

Not applicable cos either satan was using Peter or Peter was acting on his own before they were endowed with power at Pentecost

 

[jaybo]

Regarding the OP subject -- defending the faith, a discussion of Catholic doctrine -- if this is in a protected space, how is it possible to make statements that disagree with some of the posts?

 

[JLB]

acts 2:38:39 referring to ez 36:25-27

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

“This promise”
A promise from God is an oath and an oath is a sacrament

The promise you referenced in acts was in Acts 2:39 and refers to the promise of the Father, which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that is done by Jesus not man.


Please show us the verse whete the word sacraments is used in context of rituals.

Using a word that is not "sacrament" and then taking that word out of context is a gross misrepresentation of scripture.

If you can't find the word sacrament in the bible then please dont use it in a discussion concerning doctrine.

Man made words are used to prop up man made doctrine.




JLB

 

[donadams]

Why do you write something like "the sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice of Christ, his grace and merits"? That is meaningless jabber.

The bread and wine were shared by Jesus with those who had dinner with Him. He said that they should remember Him when He was no longer with them (as should we). Nothing more.

Then why do people die eating without discerning His body and blood?

Infant baptism is absurd. Confirmation is just a latter-day Bar Mitzvah. Confession should be said to others whom one has offended, not to priests. Marriage is not restricted to Catholics. "Anointing of the sick" is akin to practicing medicine. Holy orders is nonsense.

"Catholic Christians believe that the sacraments are channels for God's grace". This is unBiblical!

"The ark of salvation: one, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles" is unScriptural propaganda. Where (anywhere) in the Bible is the Catholic denomination mentioned?

Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 to name a few

Infant baptism is the “promise” of the father acts 2:38:39 reference ez 36:25-27

 

[donadams]

Infant Baptism is biblical!

Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Promise is to you’re children! Vs 39

This promise made in ez 36
A promise from God is a sacred oath, and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Acts 16:15 entire household baptized! Does not say adults only or except infants!

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness.

(It does not say adults only or except infants!)
(Scripture does not say anywhere “do not baptized infants”)

Baptism is the Christian initiation sacrament of the new covenant for all men. Matt 28:19 Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (It does not say except infants!) (but it does say “all”)!

Lk 1:10-11 all people including infants

Thee faith is required for adult baptism.
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

If it’s not possible (as in the case of infants) it’s not required.

But the promise of the parents to raise and educate the child in the faith is required, then the child is confirmed in thee faith at the age of reason.

Repentance is required for adult baptism. Acts 2:38

If there is no personal sin to repent of (as in the case of infants) then it’s not required.

For two thousand years the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles has always baptized infants!

Acts 1:8
Witness of Augustine!

It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

 

[donadams]

Holy orders, ordained priesthood
There are three kinds of priests in the new covenant

 

[donadams]

The grace to wash away sin is communicated by the sacrament of baptism

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord

Gal 3:27 we put on Christ by baptism

Grace is God’s life in us or applied to our souls by the sacraments

 

[donadams]

What is the meaning of "95"?

Dogma Number 95 out of 255
Examples
1. God, our Creator and Lord, can be known with certainty, by the natural light of reason from created things.
2. God’s existence is not merely an object of natural rational knowledge, but also an object of supernatural faith.

12. There is only One God.

15. God is absolute Veracity. (Truth)

18. God is absolute Moral Goodness or Holiness.


20. God is absolutely immutable. (Unchangeable)

21. God is eternal.

 

[donadams]

So being saved doesn't mean having eternal life? Is that what your priests tell you? If it doesn't, what is anyone saved from?

Sorry for this confusion
Having eternal life is having Hod’s life in our souls by grace, we are in Christ members of Christ and His church filled with His spirit and grace and eternal life Jn 1:16:17 Jn 10:10 but we continue in the faith to the end Matt 24:13 Mk 13:13 Jn 3:16

Salvation is the end of our faith not the beginning.

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

 

[donadams]

The Catholic priesthood is just a repeat of the OT priesthood: a priesthood separate from the rest of the population, given the responsibility of performing all kinds of rituals in the temple for the forgiveness of sins while collecting money from the population.

It is blasphemous to claim that you cannot be saved without a priest. John 3:16 -- perhaps the most famous verse in the entire Bible says “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world but in order that the world might be saved through him." Absolutely no mention of a priest! Neither is there the mention of a priest in Ephesians 2:8-10: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we may walk in them." This directly contradicts the claim that "you cannot be saved without a priest!

Your denomination has created all kinds of myths that clearly contradict the word of God. It is not surprising in the slightest that you claim that your priests are right and the Bible is wrong!

Never said the Bible is wrong
Bible yes
Bible alone according to private judgement no
Jesus is the only savior Matt 1:21 Jn 1:29
And he is a priest!
Heb 7:17
So no you cannot be saved without a priest

 

[donadams]

You are nuts Peter is not given a greater role than anyone. Jesus interacted with everyone, and sometimes with Peter. But after Pentecost, Gal 2:8and thus the beginning of the Church, and Peter like the rest witnessed Christ and the new covenant in Him, up to the point where Peter and Paul wrote of each other as being important, and scripture in their writings, and as such Paul in Gal 2:8 even wrote of their God given evolving roles, where Peter was named as a Witness to the Jews, while Paul to the Gentiles.

And Christ Jesus did not Elevate Peter or his role, because when challenged, Jesus allowed Peter to pay a tax. That's it, you are saying Peter was elevated because he paid taxes?

Answer me this, if Peter was so important, then why did God allow Paul to write 13 known epistles to be canonized into our Bible, while Peter was allowed to write only two?

If Peter was so important, than why did Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, write the four gospels and acts rather than Peter?

If Peter was so important, then why did God allow John to write a gospel, three epistles, and the Book Of Revelation?

If Peter Was So Important Than Why Did God Allow John To Write Revelation And Not Peter????

We are not deciding importance based on writing scripture, if we did I guess the apostles who wrote no scripture would be meaningless
We are saying yet apostles have a leader who takes the place of Christ on earth until he returns

Jesus approves by a miracle the fact peter was identified with himself
Matt 16:18-19 only peter received the keys of jurisdictional authority over the other apostles

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter alone, and instructed peter to minister to the other apostles

Jn 21:17 Peter entrusted with the flock or church
Feed my sheep (apostles)
Feed my lambs (people)

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles in the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 10:44
Acts 15:7

Thanks