Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine

[donadams]

And... there is nothing exclusive here.
The two of them were having a conversation.
Nothing special being pointed out here.
I already gave my thoughts on this verse... a few times.

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

 

[donadams]

And... there is nothing exclusive here.
The two of them were having a conversation.
Nothing special being pointed out here.
I already gave my thoughts on this verse... a few times.

Why does Jesus command that the successors of Moses in Matt 23:1 etc must be obeyed?

 

[Paul Timothy]

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

Where is the word Prime Minister? And where is Jesus applying a prophecy to Peter and not Himself?

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Exactly... Why?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Common in the culture. You are stretching to say a change of name ALWAYS indicates mission or ministry.

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

No PM mentioned.

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

What confession? You keep mentioning this mysterious confession as if anyone gets what you mean.

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

What confession? Now the confession is the keys of the kingdom?

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

What confession?
You keep thinking that anyone is talking about a confession... you are the only one using the word confession.

 

[Paul Timothy]

Why does Jesus command that the successors of Moses in Matt 23:1 etc must be obeyed?

Your reference says Jesus talked to His disciples and the multitudes.
So you are just mashing any old verse with your opinions?
Nothing in your reference about obey or Moses or a command.

 

[JLB]

How do we know what it refers too?
Water baptism or baptism of the spirit?
Same question referring to Jn 3:5?

The Promise of the Father refers to the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The day of Pentecost was about the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33






JLB

 

[donadams]

This is your own personal interpretation. Or maybe the interpretation of someone who wants the power of the Prime Minister and so needs a justification for the power grab.

Where is this command from Christ for the rest of the Disciples to OBEY Peter?
And then how would Paul have the authority to challenge Peter on his bad behaviour?
Why was Paul not chastized for speaking back to Peter and calling him out?

On a matter of discipline an apostle can do so
But when Peter acts in faith and morals no
Acts 1:15 acts 15:7

 

[Paul Timothy]

On a matter of discipline an apostle can do so
But when Peter acts in faith and morals no
Acts 1:15 acts 15:7

You are not explaining your point very well.
I have no idea what point you are trying to make here.

 

[donadams]

Again, more quotes from Scripture. If, according to you, the Bible can only be interpreted correctly through you priests, why do you cite Bible verses? It's one or the other, Don.

Sola scriptura!

Most scripture means what is says, I never said priest but the church has authority from Christ

 

[donadams]

And again! LOL!!!

Sola scriptura!

I bind myself to scripture alone for you’re benefit! Charity

 

[donadams]

And again! LOL!!!

Sola scriptura!

I am glad you agree with these verses of scripture
Question
Is the word of God limited to scripture alone?

 

[donadams]

Again, the only person (other than the devil) whom Jesus called Satan was Peter! Matthew 16:23

Peter was one of the apostles and a seriously flawed man. Just read about his hypocritical behavior in Galatia! Would Jesus actually give the keys to His kingdom to a person whom He called "Satan", and a stumbling block, and who denied Him three times? It's a joke!

Already explained it

 

[donadams]

More Scripture? Did your priest interpret this for you? Will your priest interpret this Scripture for us? If not, why do you claim that ordinary people can't interpret the Bible correctly on their own?

And what are all those numbers? They are not part of the source texts, but were added later, so why do you include them? Did your priest teach you to do that? And why the odd Englyshe? Did Saul speaketh thusly?

Scripture says so!

Acts 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Not scripture alone!

2 Peter 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecyof the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Verses that contradict “sola scriptura”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15



The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the authority of God, Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit!

Deny’s the ministry of Angels!
Acts 8:26

Deny’s the authority of the church (apostles) to write scripture!

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church. And be witnesses for Christ. Acts 1:8

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority

 

[donadams]

But nothing in the references you provided mention jurisdictional authority, prime ministers, or Joseph.
I understand your point but you are not providing the Biblical proofs that your idea is valid in this situation.

Isa 22:21:22
Called father
Keys (jurisdictional authority)

 

[Paul Timothy]

Isa 22:21:22
Called father
Keys (jurisdictional authority)

?

 

[donadams]

If one of the 12 were alive on earth I would listen to them.
According to Jesus, who by the way still "Lives", no one is in Him apart from the "Father".
According to Jesus who is the mediator of the new covenant God established in His blood no one comes to the Father except by Him.

Therefore, I point/steer others to Christ and promote Him not any church. The testimony states we live through Him not the church. That the life in Him is the light to man. Those who feed off Him never die.

Is the church necessary for salvation?

Why only 12 the is universal more are needed as the church is worldwide

 

[donadams]

Are you out of your mind?

The Bible OBVIOUSLY does not exclude God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit (who is not a ghost!), the church, or the apostles. Everyone of those people (plus the church) are mentioned many, many times throughout the Bible. If you took off your blinders and read the Bible you wouldn't make such an absurd statement.

BTW, if the Bible is not the written source of the truth, why do you quote it all the time? LOL!!!

The rest of your post is so absurd it doesn't deserve a reply.

Scripture and Jesus say let your yes be yes! And your no be no!
Sat what you mean and mean what you say!
You say five solas but don’t meant it!
Are there only five or five hundred
Sola means alone
But you don’t mean alone
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” say alone, to the exclusion of all else!
The Bible is our “ONLY” authority!
Therefore God, Christ, the Holy Ghost, the church if apostles CANNOT BE AN AUTHORITY!

Holy Ghost is tradition English for Holy Spirit
6 of one
Half dozen of another
Same meaning

 

[Randy]

Is the church necessary for salvation?

Why only 12 the is universal more are needed as the church is worldwide

Not as you believe. We preach from the written testimony .And that testimony of the revelations of God given through Christ and His 12 were written down for future generations. That knowledge of the truth combined with the testimony of the Holy Spirit draws all those who can hear to Christ. And Jesus is the way to the Father. We feed off of Him. We live through Him.

 

[GodsGrace]

You have reached a new level of absurdity! "A fat sandwich man" contains no verb; there is nothing that has the word "makes". Why do write you write something so meaningless?

The church did not write the New Testament scriptures. People wrote the Scriptures (New and Old Testament) as they were inspired by God. Obvious!!!

THIS POST AND POST 532 ARE BREAKING TOS RULES.

PLEASE ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND NOT THE PERSON.

PLEASE DO NOT MAKE DEROGATORY REMARKS ABOUT ANY DENOMINATION.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST ON THIS THREAD.
USE TWTS IF NECESSARY.

 

[Randy]

We have union with Christ and there God and His communion of saints

The sacrifice of Christ is complete but continually offered to the father

Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

A pure offering:
A Clean oblation:
An Unbloody sacrifice:

once for all:

once bloody on the cross and for all time unbloody sacrifice, pure offering or clean oblation.

Jesus Christ at the last supper ordained the apostles as priests in the order of melchisedec, to offer His eternal sacrifice as he commanded them; do this in memory of me.

Do this in remembrance of me!

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

We have everything we need from God.
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness

 

[jaybo]

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ change Peter’s name, God changing a persons name like Abram to Abraham or Jacob to Israel always signifies a mission or ministry!

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom? Isa 22:21-22

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

Christ changed Peter's name alright: to Satan! Four verses after the verse you cite, Jesus said in Matthew 16:23, "But he [Jesus] turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me, for you are setting your mind not on divine things but on human things.” It’s Christ who does this!