You certainly need to be born from above by the Spirit. Christ in us. Grace through faith. I should think prayers are also involved as who ever calls on the Lord shall be saved. If I add more depth to faith it would be obedience to Jesus's commands.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine
- Thread starter JLB
- Start date
John 5:24 is in reference to the Father not the church. As His Spirit bears witness from what He hears not from man but from the mind of God.
Jesus=>Those that listen to and learn from the Father come to me.
Jesus's prayer to the Father=>They were yours you gave them to me.
Jesus=>No one comes to me unless the Father enables them.
A complete foundation has been laid. As was written down for future generations. We call that the NT. We consider that testimony alone as a faithful representation of apostolic teaching. A closed canon. We teach and remind others of those words in the context of their authority and trustworthy and truthful accounting from above. In judgments made it will be Jesus's words that prevail.
It is God that makes those words grown in the hearts of man.
For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:30-31
- If you abide (remain, continue) in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth…
The doctrine, the teaching of Jesus Christ as given by His apostles are how we know the truth.
If we transgress and go beyond His doctrine then we are danger.
Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
Commentaries and catechisms are not His doctrine.
JLB
All Christians are the spiritual brothers of Jesus
You can’t have Jesus for your spiritual brother without Mary being your spiritual mother!
Spiritual Mother!
A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!
Behold thy mother!
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Jesus is not asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.
Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!
As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!
Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!
The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!
Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
Spiritual Mother!
Mary is our spiritual mother
Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!
Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so. There is no requirement to maker her his mother just to take care of her!
Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!
As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!
Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!
Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!
The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!
Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
It must be an Absurd assertion to say Jesus is only asking John (personal name) to care for Mary?
John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
If that’s true (and He never says anything about caring for her) then why would the second part be included? Behold Thy son!
The disciple becomes Mary’s son
Mary becomes his mother.
Is Christ asking Mary to care for John?
Jesus is giving all “disciples” a spiritual mother like eve the mother of the living, Gen 3:20 and Rachel is the spiritual mother of the children of Israel in the old covenant, Matt 2:18 Mary is the mother of all those alive in Christ! Mother of divine grace and salvation! Rev 12:17
No you are rejecting scripture
Negating the word of God
You say born of water born again if the spirit
Scripture says
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
WATER AND THE SPIRIT
like ez 36:25 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36
Matt 28:19 acts 2:38
1 cor 12:13 gal 3:27 1 pet 3:21
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!
*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Initiation!!!
Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!
You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!
You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!
“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)
No baptism no grace!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!
Initiation!!!
Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!
You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!
You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!
“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17
A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)
No baptism no grace!
A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!
As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!
without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!
Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!
Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!
They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “
They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22
A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!
Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.
Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.
1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.
You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!
2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Baptism!
God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!
Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2
Born again! Born from above!
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!
Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!
Effects of faith & baptism!
Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!
Faith and baptism!
Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!
Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”
2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!
I accept the Bible yes as the church declares it all 73 books and chapters with the church giving the only authentic interpretation
Water AND the spirit
The biblical mandate of God’s work of creation!
Water and the spirit!
First creation:
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
(water and the spirit)
Noah:
Gen 8:8 Also he sent forth a dove (representing the spirit) from him…
(Water and the spirit)
Red Sea:
Led thru the waters by the spirit.
Exodus 13:21
And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
(Water and the spirit)
Josuha
Joshua and the people of Israel crossing of the Jordan led by the spirit.
Joshua 1:1 Now after the death of Moses the servant of the Lord it came to pass, that the Lord spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses’ minister, saying, 2 Moses my servant is dead; now therefore arise, go over this Jordan, thou, and all this people, unto the land which I do give to them, even to the children of Israel.
(Water and the spirit)
Prophecy of the new creation: (new covenant)
Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you…
acts 2:38-39 “this promise”
(Water and the Spirit)
Baptism of Jesus
Jn 1:31 I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
(Water and the spirit)
New creation by water and the spirit
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
(Water and the spirit)
Christian sacrament of baptismal regeneration is by: WATER AND THE SPIRIT!
No one is born again by:
“the spirit alone”!
Or
“Faith alone”!
Water AND the spirit is the biblical mandate!
I disagree. I am perceiving what Jesus's stated importance is in regard to the one "new" birth He is stating.
I was baptized as a infant. Though I believed in Jesus with all my heart I did not have the "inward" witness of the Spirit until I prayed for that gift when I was older and able to do so. I would not let go of the Lord until He blessed me. I have that witness now. For shortly after all those prayer sessions with great zeal I felt that inner presence and power of Christ in me. That's my testimony what's yours?
There is nothing stated in regard to water baptism in regard to Nicodemus. Just birth of flesh and birth of spirit. With birth of spirit as born from above in spirit not birth given from man when Nicodemus asked how can one be born a 2nd time.
Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a leader of the Jews. 2 He came to Jesus by night and said to him, ‘Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God; for no one can do these signs that you do apart from the presence of God.’ 3 Jesus answered him, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.’ 4 Nicodemus said to him, ‘How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?’ 5 Jesus answered, ‘Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, “You must be born from above.” 8 The wind blows where it chooses, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.’
Again I do not limit or handcuff God in how He chooses to dispense grace given from Him. Water baptism is shown for those who have faith in Him. I put the importance in faith and prayer in Him with obedience to His commands.
Again nothing in regard to water baptism as required for being born from above in Spirit.
If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be c in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
Clearly the 73 books is a debatable topic among Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and protestant churches. But the 27 NT books are all agreed on as far as I know.
What scriptural proof do you have for saying that Mary's son being referred to in John 19:26 can't possibly be her biological son?
Explain verse 22 please
They went and preached “accept Christ” or they went and baptized!
Yep
Ever read about susana in Dan 13?
John the apostle? Mary’s son? No
Matt 10:2
2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
John is a son of Zebedee not Joseph
Both James are sons of men other than Joseph
Who said anything about a John or an apostle?
Isn't Christ and the forgiveness of sins received? And can they know and believe in that unless that new message of life is explained to them? This was the 1st century world. Wouldn't it be both shown? As those who didn't believe were not baptized.
What is not negotiable to you in regard to true salvation is water baptism. What is not negotiable to me is faith in and obedience to Christ Jesus.
I don't have a Daniel 13 in my bible so no. I have read about Jesus. Him I know.
There's not alot of disagreement in this but according to Jesus no one comes to Him unless enabled by the Father. And those who belong to God hear what God states. Jesus informed those that didn't believe in Him was because they didn't belong to God.
I believe the NT is the teaching given from one Shepard. Warning bells go off in anything in addition to them. Not just meaning Catholics. I care not who claims authority to add to them as truth. So in some cases such a church may not be considered a pillar of truth.