What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Defending the faith: A discussion of Catholic Doctrine

donadams said:
JTB was only for repentance and preparation for the coming of Christ and his grace of the sacrament of baptism
Why send JTB with baptism to prepare for the preaching of faith alone?
Jn 3:22 they went and baptized!
Click to expand...

First of all there is no such thing as a "sacrament" of baptism. That a man made term that is unbiblical.

Water baptism and the baptism with the Holy Spirit are baptisms that the apostles administered.

Here is a demonstration of this by Peter.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48

These gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit, then they were baptized in water.


Does your church practice this?


JLB
 
JLB said:
First of all there is no such thing as a "sacrament" of baptism. That a man made term that is unbiblical.

Water baptism and the baptism with the Holy Spirit are baptisms that the apostles administered.



JLB
Click to expand...

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a man made term that is unbiblical.

It was invented by D L Moody and promoted by RA Torrey in the late 19th century - the beginning of Pentecostalism.
You won't find it in scripture or in the early fathers.
 
Mungo said:
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a man made term that is unbiblical.

It was invented by D L Moody and promoted by RA Torrey in the late 19th century - the beginning of Pentecostalism.
You won't find it in scripture or in the early fathers.
Click to expand...

I know it must be shocking to read actual scripture, words from Jesus Christ Himself, since all you seem to go by is catechism, commentary, and creeds.


Here it is again, the verse I gave in my post —


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

  • you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now

When you reject the words of Jesus Christ, you reject Jesus Himself.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is a man made term that is unbiblical.
Click to expand...


The exact words you claim were man made and unbiblical.


  • you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now



JLB
 
JLB said:
I know it must be shocking to read actual scripture, words from Jesus Christ Himself, since all you seem to go by is catechism, commentary, and creeds.


Here it is again, the verse I gave in my post —


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

  • you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now

When you reject the words of Jesus Christ, you reject Jesus Himself.




The exact words you claim were man made and unbiblical.


  • you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now



JLB
Click to expand...
Come on JLB.
Primary school children are taught the difference between a verb and a noun.

The term baptism in the Holy Spirit is not in scripture.
It is man made.
It was invented by D L Moody and promoted by RA Torrey in the late 19th century - the beginning of Pentecostalism.
You won't find it in scripture or in the early fathers.
 
Mungo said:
Come on JLB.
Primary school children are taught the difference between a verb and a noun.

The term baptism in the Holy Spirit is not in scripture.
It is man made.
It was invented by D L Moody and promoted by RA Torrey in the late 19th century - the beginning of Pentecostalism.
You won't find it in scripture or in the early fathers.
Click to expand...

Denial seems to be your theological position.


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


As we see, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is different than baptism with water.


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8


Other places in scripture refer to this as receiving the Holy Spirit.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Here is how biblical water baptism is done —


Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Acts 8:36-38

  • And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

No where do we find infant baptism in scripture. No such thing as sprinkling an infant.


The only way a person is eligible for water baptism is they believe with all their heart. Infants don’t understand the Gospel nor do they have the ability to believe. They are innocent.


  • See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”



JLB
 
Randy said:
That context is debatable, but Peter is in heaven as I believe.

And clearly Paul was sent to the gentiles. He is in heaven as I believe.
Click to expand...
Not concerned with who was sent but who is the head of the church on earth?
 
Randy said:
You are not free to sin.
We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Love fulfills Gods moral law.
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Click to expand...
Love of God is forbidden by
“Faith alone”!
 
JLB said:
First of all there is no such thing as a "sacrament" of baptism. That a man made term that is unbiblical.

Water baptism and the baptism with the Holy Spirit are baptisms that the apostles administered.

Here is a demonstration of this by Peter.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days. Acts 10:44-48

These gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit, then they were baptized in water.


Does your church practice this?


JLB
Click to expand...
The trinity is not found in scripture but we believe it

We don’t believe in the doctrine of scripture alone, do you?

Promise of God:
Sacred oath:
A promise or sacred oath made by God is called a sacrament:
A sacrament is also the fruit of a sacrifice, grace or the merits of Christ are fruit of His sacrifice on the cross!

Lk 1:72
Acts 2:39 referring to ez 36:25-27
Acts 1:4
Acts 2:33
Acts 13:23
Acts 13:32
Acts 26:6
Acts 26:7
Rom 1:2
2 Tim 1:1-2
2 pet 1:4
1 Jn 2:25 and many more!
Sacraments instituted by Christ for the salvation of souls!
 
JLB said:
Denial seems to be your theological position.


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


As we see, the baptism with the Holy Spirit is different than baptism with water.


I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8


Other places in scripture refer to this as receiving the Holy Spirit.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

  • They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.


Here is how biblical water baptism is done —


Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. Acts 8:36-38

  • And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.

No where do we find infant baptism in scripture. No such thing as sprinkling an infant.


The only way a person is eligible for water baptism is they believe with all their heart. Infants don’t understand the Gospel nor do they have the ability to believe. They are innocent.


  • See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”



JLB
Click to expand...

I'm not the one in denial JLB.
It's clear you are trying to deny the facts.
You can't deny and dodge your way out of this one.

The term baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT in scripture. If it were you could quote me chapter and verse.
You have interpreted Acts 1:4-5 and Mk 1:8 to mean there is such a thing as baptism with the Holy Spirit.
But that is your personal interpretation; not what is in the Bible.

On the other hand you make another Biblical error when you claim that the word "sacrament" is "a man made term that is unbiblical."

It is not. It is in the Bible:

Ephesians 1:9
to make known to us the sacrament of his will, by the good pleasance of him [after the good pleasance of him];

Ephesians 1:10
the which sacrament he purposed in him in the dispensation of plenty of times to store up (or include) all things in Christ, which be in heavens, and which be in earth, in him.

Ephesians 3:3
For by revelation the sacrament is made known to me, as I above wrote in short thing,

Ephesians 3:9
and to lighten all men [and to enlighten all men], which is the dispensation of [the] sacrament hid from worlds in God, that made all things of nought;

Ephesians 5:32
This sacrament is great; yea, I say in Christ, and in the church.

Colossians 1:27
to whom God would make known the riches of the glory of this sacrament in heathen men, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

1 Timothy 3:16
And openly it is a great sacrament of piety, that thing that was showed in flesh, it is justified in Spirit [And openly it is a great sacrament of piety, that that is showed in flesh, is justified in Spirit], it appeared to angels, it is preached to heathen men, it is believed in the world, it is taken up into glory.

Revelation 1:20
The sacrament of the seven stars [They mystery of seven stars], which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks; the seven stars be [the] angels of the seven churches, and the seven candlesticks be [the] seven churches.

Revelation 17:7
And the angel said to me, Why wonderest thou? I shall say to thee the sacrament of the woman, and of the beast that beareth her, that hath seven heads and ten horns.
 
Mungo said:
The term baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT in scripture.
Click to expand...

Here it is for the third time --

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

  • baptized with the Holy Spirit

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

  • baptize you with the Holy Spirit.


Baptizm with the Spirit is biblical.


Your denial of reality is blatant.



JLB
 
Last edited:
JLB said:
Here it is for the third time --

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

  • baptized with the Holy Spirit

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

  • baptize you with the Holy Spirit.


Baptizm with the Spirit is biblical.


Your denial of reality is blatant.



JLB
Click to expand...
Here it is for the third time.
The term baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT in scripture.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT biblical.

Your denial of truth is blatant.

If the term baptism with the Holy Spirit were in the Bible you could quote me chapter and verse - but you can't.
You have interpreted Acts 1:4-5 and Mk 1:8 to mean there is such a thing as baptism with the Holy Spirit.
But that is your personal interpretation; not what is in the Bible.
 
Randy said:
Jesus is the head of the body of Christ.
Click to expand...
Yes of course
But he appointed Peter to govern the kingdom till he returns
So Peter is father and head of the church on earth
 
Randy said:
Faith and obedience to Christs commands demonstrates love towards God. What God gives He gives freely. What you receive from man you may gave to work hard for.
Click to expand...
Obedience?
And I thought it was “faith alone”?
 
Mungo said:
Here it is for the third time.
The term baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT in scripture.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT biblical.

Your denial of truth is blatant.

If the term baptism with the Holy Spirit were in the Bible you could quote me chapter and verse - but you can't.
You have interpreted Acts 1:4-5 and Mk 1:8 to mean there is such a thing as baptism with the Holy Spirit.
But that is your personal interpretation; not what is in the Bible.
Click to expand...

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

  • baptized with the Holy Spirit

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

  • baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the two scriptures above.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit refers to the scriptural practice of people being baptized with the Holy Spirit.


Have you bern baptized with the Holy Spirit?



JLB
 
donadams said:
Obedience?
And I thought it was “faith alone”?
Click to expand...
I don't know why as that's about the 3rd or fourth time I added that depth to faith in this thread.
“If you love me, keep my commands. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth

“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love

Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB
donadams said:
Yes of course
But he appointed Peter to govern the kingdom till he returns
So Peter is father and head of the church on earth
Click to expand...
I don't share your belief in that statement even when Peter was alive on earth. I see shared authority among the apostles.

The eastern orthodox church doesn't consider themselves under the Pope. Neither do protestants.
 
Mungo said:
Here it is for the third time.
The term baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT in scripture.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT biblical.

Your denial of truth is blatant.

If the term baptism with the Holy Spirit were in the Bible you could quote me chapter and verse - but you can't.
You have interpreted Acts 1:4-5 and Mk 1:8 to mean there is such a thing as baptism with the Holy Spirit.
But that is your personal interpretation; not what is in the Bible.
Click to expand...
Word play.
I read of Pentecost. There "baptism" was not with water.
John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 
JLB said:
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5

  • baptized with the Holy Spirit

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

  • baptize you with the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...

The term baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT in scripture.
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is NOT biblical.

Your denial of truth is blatant.
If the term baptism with the Holy Spirit were in the Bible you could quote me chapter and verse - but you can't.
You have interpreted Acts 1:4-5 and Mk 1:8 to mean there is such a thing as baptism with the Holy Spirit.
But that is your personal interpretation; not what is in the Bible.
It's a man made term not scripture.

JLB said:
Baptism with the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the two scriptures above.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit refers to the scriptural practice of people being baptized with the Holy Spirit.


Have you bern baptized with the Holy Spirit?



JLB
Click to expand...

The two quotes you give do not say baptism with the Holy Spirit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top